The scrum. Why?

[Chief]

Had a search and couldn't find this topic discussed.

What use does the scrum have in the modern game? The prop sticks his foot out, the ball is rolled under his leg and the game carries on.

When I was in the under 9's in the Pambula-Merimbula Junior Rugby League Football Club (shout out to the peeps of the PMJRLFC - still have the participation trophies on my bookshelf) the ref would make us place the ball right in the middle, then give the go ahead for us to start pushing forward/raking the ball back.

I haven't watched league for many years now apart from the odd game. What's the evolution of the modern scrum?

 

[pcpp]

To remove the forwards from play for a period of time.

Scrums can still be competitive.

 

[BuffaloRules]

Why?

Look at the first try QLD scored tonight...

 

[The Passenger]

i've argued every since i was about 10 and first understood the game that scrums should be done with.

They're pointless and maybe 1 to 2 % of them are won by team not feeding it.

 

[Rus13]

Generally a RL scrum is purely a restart. For a time it removes the forwards away & in theory should give the backs a bit more room.

Unfortunately, a lot of teams just put a crash-baller at 5/8 & don't take advantage of this.

I can live with uncontested scrums because it makes the game safer.

If you go back to the union WC in 2003 there was something like 1230 scrums. Only 10 or so of these were won against the feed i.e. less than 1%.

More than half these scrums had to be set at least twice & about 40 penalties (short-arm) resulted.

Three players had their careers finished because of neck & spine injuries. A player from the 1995 union WC is still in a wheel chair & will be from injuries sustained when a scrum collapsed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/5014162.stm
The days of burly rugby players pushing and shoving against each other in a scrum could be numbered.
A leading doctor has called for contested scrums to be banned because of the risk of paralysis.

A report in the British Medical Journal said players should only engage in uncontested scrums that involve no pushing and are much less dangerous.

 

[babyg]

Agree, why reward someone who's made a mistake by giving them a chance of getting the ball back in a scrum.

They should do more set plays off scums as the forwards are out of play.

 

[TigerCraig]

Agree - the scrum in league now is a waste of time. Props don't bend their backs, halfbacks play hooker, locks don't pack and the ball gets thrown in the second row.

My dad (an old hooker) rarely watches the game now because of this.

I love union scrums though - a true test of building dominance over your opponent and crushing and embarrassing them.

 

[TigerCraig]

I can live with uncontested scrums because it makes the game safer.

If you go back to the union WC in 2003 there was something like 1230 scrums. Only 10 or so of these were won against the feed i.e. less than 1%.

More than half these scrums had to be set at least twice & about 40 penalties (short-arm) resulted.

Three players had their careers finished because of neck & spine injuries. A player from the 1995 union WC is still in a wheel chair & will be from injuries sustained when a scrum collapsed.

boo hoo

 

[rooboy]

Agree, why reward someone who's made a mistake by giving them a chance of getting the ball back in a scrum.

They should do more set plays off scums as the forwards are out of play.

I'm with you mate.

 

[I_LUV_AFL]

boo hoo

If you think there is a joke to be made out of a paralysed player then you obviously have more issues then simply being a Richmond fan. Immaturity was the first thing to come to my mind. 'Boo Hoo', are you serious?

Scrums in RL are to get rid of the forwards and I don't think they are taken advantage of enough by the players and coaches. An example is the QLDer's first try in Origin 2. Fair enough, they aren't competitive but that is their significance in the modern game.

Its not really a great problem of yours anyway because you have no interest in the game anyway, right?

 

[topdon]

I can live with uncontested scrums because it makes the game safer.

So lets then make a 'shoulder charge' a illegal/dangerous tackle. Players should be made, like Union, to wrap their arms around their opponent when laying a tackle.

 

[ParraEelsNRL]

So lets then make a 'shoulder charge' a illegal/dangerous tackle. Players should be made, like Union, to wrap their arms around their opponent when laying a tackle.

Rugby don't take rules from union, union take rules from Rugby.

Either fix the scrum or p155 it off.

 

[Rus13]

When has anybody been seriously hurt from a shoulder charge in RL?

I bet you can't name any?

Shoulder charges are a bad habit to get into for junior footballers IMO (I think they are banned at junior level).


see this:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national...r-srum-collapse/2006/06/17/1149964781208.html
Schoolboy in hospital after srum collapse


A 16-year-old Sydney schoolboy has been temporarily paralysed in a rugby union scrum collapse.

The teenager was airlifted to Sydney's Royal North Shore Hospital after his neck was "crunched" in a scrum collapse during game on Sydney's north shore about 12.30pm (AEST) today, a NRMA CareFlight doctor said.

The Lane Cove teenager, playing his first game of the season at St Joseph's College at Hunters Hill, initially lost feeling to his arms and legs.

But his condition improved with feeling returning to his limbs about an hour after the accident, the CareFlight doctor said.

He is a stable condition and will undergo further assessment at the hospital.

 

[copa]

Had a search and couldn't find this topic discussed.

What use does the scrum have in the modern game? The prop sticks his foot out, the ball is rolled under his leg and the game carries on.

When I was in the under 9's in the Pambula-Merimbula Junior Rugby League Football Club (shout out to the peeps of the PMJRLFC - still have the participation trophies on my bookshelf) the ref would make us place the ball right in the middle, then give the go ahead for us to start pushing forward/raking the ball back.

I haven't watched league for many years now apart from the odd game. What's the evolution of the modern scrum?

safety issues partly resulted in the scrum going the way it did... there are now far less spinal injuries in rugby league.

There is a table on the link below that breaks it down to each sport and the severity of the injuries. This is for an Australian study

Severity of injuries was measured by the Frankel grade:4 grade A, complete loss of motor and sensory function below the level of the cord lesion; grade B, some sensation below the level of the lesion but complete motor paralysis; grade C, some motor power below the level of the lesion but insufficient for practical use; grade D, useful motor power below the level of the lesion; or grade E, no neurological symptoms, but abnormal reflexes may be present. No attempt was made to evaluate the methods of management of the injuries.


From 1997 to 2002 there were 2 grade A and 8 grade D spinal injuries in RL.. from '86 - '96 there were 15 A, 2 B and 16 D spinal injuries in RL. The decrease has been dramatic since scrums stopped being competitive. The stats for Rugby Union are also on the table at the link... they speak for themselves.

Further info.. including a whole lot of mediacl jargon.
http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/182_11...ar10658_fm.html

It also goes into stats, severity of injuries, scrum techniques and other issues

Results: Fifty-two footballers [edit: this refers to more than one code of football] (45 adult men and seven schoolboys) suffered ASCIs [Edit: Acute Spinal Cord Injuries] between 1997 and 2002. The average annual incidence of ASCIs per 100 000 players was 3.2 for RU, 1.5 for RL, 0.5 for ARF and 0.2 for soccer. While there has been little change in incidence since the 1986–1996 survey, there has been a trend towards less severe injuries in RU and RL, but not in ARF. There have been no scrum injuries in RL since 1996, when the scrum stopped being contested. Seven injuries occurred in RU scrums, six at the moment of engagement of the opposing teams.

Further research articles can be found HERE
Spinal cord injuries in Australian footballers 1997–2002
Spinal injuries in rugby union, 1970–2003: lessons and responsibilities
Severe cervical spinal cord injuries related to rugby union and league football in New South Wales, 1984-1996
Rugby and spinal injury: what can be done?

 

[TigerCraig]

If you think there is a joke to be made out of a paralysed player then you obviously have more issues then simply being a Richmond fan. Immaturity was the first thing to come to my mind. 'Boo Hoo', are you serious?

Scrums in RL are to get rid of the forwards and I don't think they are taken advantage of enough by the players and coaches. An example is the QLDer's first try in Origin 2. Fair enough, they aren't competitive but that is their significance in the modern game.

Its not really a great problem of yours anyway because you have no interest in the game anyway, right?

I don't think any injury is a joke - but a front row forward knows the risks and trains for them. Accidents happen - doesn't mean we need to be a nanny state. I do have a problem with juniors being forced to play front row, or playing contested scrums with inadequate training - but not seniors.

I've played front row in league and union (albeit only juniors and schoolboy) and gave it away when I stopped growing and didn't want to take it over seriously. mOved to centres, then Aussie Rules, then when I got old and broken down (29) to soccer.

I love watching union scrummaging. It is an art and a way of getting dominance. I like league, but can't cop the scrums.

I follow all 4 codes of football with close to the same level of interest in all of them.

 

[Rus13]

Well for me , every time I see a union scrum I cringe. They are barbaric.

BTW when is the last time you seen a scrum highlights on the Sport's News or a video the 100 best scrums.

Insurance premiums will kill them in the next decade IMO.

 

[TigerCraig]

BTW when is the last time you seen a scrum highlights on the Sport's News or a video the 100 best scrums.

Last Australia v England series in England

For me, the best ever was the pushover try against Wales at Cardiff Arms park on the Grand Slam tour

 

[Diego]

I stopped playing league the moment i was told to go in the scrum as hooker. I almost broke my kneck and vowed never to play League again. Not to mention the nice lumps on my shins from all the kicking.

Scrums 20 years ago where scary, even at junior level. Though i used to love watching a contested scrum and watch great half backs like sterlo feed it in the middle and watch the hookers go for gold with their feet.

But yeah glad they went out the window along with the old brown leather balls that used to make ball passing impossible on wet days and sub standard on dry days.

 

[TigerCraig]

IBut yeah glad they went out the window along with the old brown leather balls that used to make ball passing impossible on wet days and sub standard on dry days.

Let alone kicking them when wet!! Still amazed that guys like Cronin, Eadie, Sims, Barnes etc could toe poke goals from all over the park with them.

On the old style balls, I saw a soccer documentary on SBS the other night where they put current German national & youth team guys in old style boots and had them try to juggle and dribble an old leather ball - they had no idea.

 

[charliemurphy]

My only problem with scrums at the moment is they aren't packed properly and the lock/second row breaks too quickly reducing the attacking advantage of the team with the feed.