Analysis The Small Things

[Dylan8]

Gorringe, what a tit.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Thats one and I'm assuming she clearly stated this was the reason she stopped posting?

No and run-off may have been a strong way to put it, but I can't possibly see how after trying to engage in football conversation and then continually being dragged back to that was enjoyable.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I'm almost certain the latter was actively run out of town, the former copped a shitload of heat for her staunch pro-Justin defences but generally gave as good as she got.

I don't remember Koulagirl but I_Love_thehoff ran into trouble on the bay and in the limbo club under an alias as I recall. The best thing that happened to that young lady was getting off bigfooty.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

No and run-off may have been a strong way to put it, but I can't possibly see how after trying to engage in football conversation and then continually being dragged back to that was enjoyable.

ok so you recall women being run off this board but you have one example you aren't sure about.

Solid argument.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I think that was @nataliakate

Yeah it was and yeah I'm guilty of commenting on her profile pic. There was something weird about it, I think the angle made it look like she had a disproportionately large arm or leg.

 

[HighBudget]

No, people don't want facts, facts are actually very mundane things. People want well thought out arguments. And people expect those challenging said arguments to attempt to do so with other well thought out arguments.

Well what's a well thought out argument without facts backing that argument up. Are you saying people can just make things up in an argument just as long as it sounds well thought out? So I can argue that The world as we know it doesn't really exist and that it's just a figment of someone's imagination, I don't know the how or why for my argument, and don't have any evidence for it, but if I just write pages and pages of bullshit and make it sound like I do know what I'm talking about then that's alright

 

[Portia]

Well what's a well thought out argument without facts backing that argument up. Are you saying people can just make things up in an argument just as long as it sounds well thought out? So I can argue that The world as we know it doesn't really exist and that it's just a figment of someone's imagination, I don't know the how or why for my argument, and don't have any evidence for it, but if I just write pages and pages of bullshit and make it sound like I do know what I'm talking about then that's alright

The flaw there is I doubt you could make anything sound like you know what you're talking about.

 

[raman]

Well what's a well thought out argument without facts backing that argument up. Are you saying people can just make things up in an argument just as long as it sounds well thought out?

No.

And on second thoughts I think you were right in refusing to provide a counter-argument in the first place. Apologies.

 

[Eddie Dingle]

Nice, personal attacks on HighBudgets intelligence.

****ing bullies.

 

[Portia]

Nice, personal attacks on HighBudgets intelligence.

****ing bullies.

I would love it if you'd make an honest argument. You clearly disagree with the thread. Whats the best you've got?

 

[Eddie Dingle]

I would love it if you'd make an honest argument. You clearly disagree with the thread. Whats the best you've got?

Who said I disagree? Where have I been dishonest? I have taken issue with a few posts. Nothing more nothing less.

You are a hypocrite if you think you can say whatever you like about people but it's offensive if they post anything you remotely disagree with.

What's the best I've got? **** off, who are you Floyd Mayweather? Calling people out like you are some sort of hero.

Please.

 

[_Christoh_]

That toxic mindset in regards to sexism is the reason you're a part of the problem, not the solution.

Are you saying I'm sexist?

Show me where I was a party to what Portia is complaining about? I'll save you the hassle...You won't find it.

Show me where I said Portia didn't have a point. I can show you where I agreed with what she was referring to.

I question the method of making her point. You're going to get a far better response through educating and informing people than calling them out and marginalizing them on something they may not have been aware was an issue. Honey and sugar works much better than spit and fire.

 

[HighBudget]

The flaw there is I doubt you could make anything sound like you know what you're talking about.

You love assumptions don't you? Prove that these girls stopped being active on bigfooty because of mysogynistic behaviour by the guy subscribers

 

[Portia]

Who said I disagree? Where have I been dishonest? I have taken issue with a few posts. Nothing more nothing less.

You are a hypocrite if you think you can say whatever you like about people but it's offensive if they post anything you remotely disagree with.

Do you personally honestly believe that the remark I just made is out of line with what should be said on Bigfooty? That is where you have been dishonest, because I don't believe for a second you do.

Make the real argument.

 

[FallingLiefs]

Prove that these girls stopped being active on bigfooty because of mysogynistic behaviour by the guy subscribers

Well the question isn't "was it the reason?" it's "did it contribute?" and if there's a slight chance of the answer being yes then why did it need the remarks need to be said?

 

[HighBudget]

No.

And on second thoughts I think you were right in refusing to provide a counter-argument in the first place. Apologies.

Why argue about something when no ones proved that it exists (not sexism obviously, but the statement that girl members of bigfooty stopped being active because of sexism)

 

[Dylan8]

I question the method of making her point. You're going to get a far better response through educating and informing people than calling them out and marginalizing them on something they may not have been aware was an issue. Honey and sugar works much better than spit and fire.

I disagree with your method, as Portia mentioned deleted posts or modified posts by moderators doesn't affect anyone except the person who's writing the offending post. It's very reactive and doesn't cover a broad basis when clearly from a few examples pointed out in the last couple of days it's a bigger problem than a couple of people. And it doesn't bring the problem to light.

Prove that these girls stopped being active on bigfooty because of mysogynistic behaviour by the guy subscribers

I've not been around long enough to prove this point but even as a male I get annoyed at most casual, lame sexist jokes and observations. You're focusing too much on one point removed from the bigger picture which is that alienating women isn't necessary or fine.

 

[raman]

I've not been around long enough to prove this point but even as a male I get annoyed at most casual, lame sexist jokes and observations. You're focusing too much on one point removed from the bigger picture which is that alienating women isn't necessary or fine.

lol yes

The "run-off the board" argument misses the forest for the trees anyway. If no active female posters had ever left the gender imbalance on this board would still be massive.

 

[BornPort]

So from right now, when you want to make a joke at the expense of women, think about what it would cost you if you didn't. When you want to discuss women doing anything, think about it when your first response is to talk about them like objects. When you think a chick is hot, maybe just give it a rest rather than start an ogling crew in a thread.

And if you flat out refuse to consider modifying your behaviour in any way, even in a way that costs you virtually nothing, take a good hard look at yourself.

That's not an unreasonable request. I'm on-board with making this place a little more female friendly.

 

[HighBudget]

I've not been around long enough to prove this point but even as a male I get annoyed at most casual, lame sexist jokes and observations. You're focusing too much on one point removed from the bigger picture which is that alienating women isn't necessary or fine.

It isn't, I agree. And that's all this thread should have steered towards. I just don't like it when people talk out of their ass and make their opinion a fact

 

[Trewth]

The way dudes were creeping on Natalie was disgraceful and embarrassing

 

[_Christoh_]

So here's why you're wrong.

1. If all I do is report posts, then all that happens is that those individuals get a note saying that a post is edited, and typically no one else even notices anything has happened. As I've demonstrated, this problem is not restricted to one of two posters, its across a big chunk.

2. A `serious' tag address none of the concerns I have expressed.

3. Some of the comments are vilifying, but the main problem here is that the tone of this board is actively hostile to women, in ways I demonstrated on the AFL Women's team thread and talked about in the OP. It is very easy to make a hostile area without actively vilifying anyone, and that is what has happened.

4. Calling people out in a thread absolutely is confrontational and likely to cause a divide, which is exactly what is needed, because if there is no public discussion then the assumption any neutral party would make is that everyone is happy with the status quo.

5. Anyone who is going to continue or increase their degree of discriminatory rubbish on this board because of being called out needs to be called out, because the more they whinge, the more they will get kick back themselves.

6. If you don't make a visible, public change, then on something like this you're not only unlikely to succesfully make a change, but you're not demonstrating to others that a change is being made.

TL;DR
* If you get more hostile after being called out, you'll earn an infraction and eventually get banned.
* If you don't modify your behaviour you'll keep getting called out, and people will know you're a shit.
* If you become wary of being called out and modify your behaviour as a result, the board improves.

Win win win.

Look, I'm not attacking you or your thoughts. I agree you have a point. I question you're method in making your point. Shame is a dangerous and stupid thing to be throwing around and painting people with. You're not going to get far with that.

I simply disagree that being confrontational about solving this issue is the way to go.

Educating, leading a cultural change through awareness and working with the mods was the way to go here. Not naming and shaming. Have you discussed this with the mods? Why aren't they leading the charge here? Why did it fall to you?

Not everyone is aware that the comments you refer to are vilifying toward women. If they did, those comments wouldn't exist. I too thought they were in poor taste and added nothing to the discussion you referred to. I chose to ignore them, you chose to do something about it. That's your right. I'm just questioning your method.

 

[Andre]

lol yes

The "run-off the board" argument misses the forest for the trees anyway. If no active female posters had ever left the gender imbalance on this board would still be massive.

True and Plenty of male posters have come and gone, but due to the imbalance in numbers their loss is largely unnoticed.

 

[Andre]

The way dudes were creeping on Natalie was disgraceful and embarrassing

No disagreement there, that was a clear case that was cringeworthy at best. It was however a clear case of a poster being harassed (of which the mods could have come down on the perps as it not acceptable), versus finding offense on behalf of 50% of the population for remarks not about any posters on this board.

 

[Peck]

You love assumptions don't you? Prove that these girls stopped being active on bigfooty because of mysogynistic behaviour by the guy subscribers

I hate being on bigfooty because of it, and I ain't even a girl.

Only reason I'm still here is because I have nothing else worth doign in my life.