The state of the game internationally

[Aucklander]

but is a viable self sustaining club comp in place ....... probably not.

There isn't and that's ok. It takes time and you'll be changing the culture of what people are used to and have been offered for years.

At the end of the day the signing of Kurt and Shem has done more for the code in the last 10 years than any amount of participation numbers have.

Now if only they'd give me a call about my boy.

 

[cos789]

Good points.

WorldFootynews has just posted an article from AFL RSA where similarly they have achieved participation figures of 20k and have shown a detailed breakdown of involement. As expected the bias of ages is at the lower end and tapers off with age. They state the focus is now on consolidation but still intend to expand to other provinces with an aim of 30k in 2016.

.

 

[cos789]

Now if only they'd give me a call about my boy.

Hawthorn would be your best bet. - just signed another Kiwi.
What age are we talking about?

.

 

[Aucklander]

Hawthorn would be your best bet. - just signed another Kiwi.
What age are we talking about?

He's 16 in April.

 

[cos789]

He's 16 in April.

Interesting times. Good luck.

.

 

[Aucklander]

Interesting times. Good luck.

.

Thanks. It really is a big year for him.

 

[fabulousphil]

Thanks. It really is a big year for him.

Yep good luck.

 

[Putney Magpies]

Yep good luck.

In the uk nines are played outside of London.... In wales, northern/central england and southern england... Afl London have an 18 a side with a quota system.... 9 Aussies, 5 non Aussies (rows) and 4 Brits.... The season is played in the summer so we are unable to use any cricket grounds.... Also means football (soccer) and rugby players can played because we don't play in the winter.....

 

[jatz14]

Page with video of the NZ Hawks playing the AIS here

I always thought that places like NZ could produce decent players given the right circumstances, but I was still surprised by the quality of the footy they played, despite the easy loss. With the proviso that the NZ players were on average older than the Aussies (and it showed) and at times could win contests through shear strength and size, they did well.

The physicality was expected, what wasnt aside from a few players with dodgy kicking, was the quality of skills under pressure. Players feigning a handpass one way, and then stepping through traffic the other, players running to be in position for handball receives, good competitive marking. There was lots to be impressed with. Also a testament to the Aussie kids that they won easily depite being undersized and under strength relative to the Kiwis.

As the program grows, and they start to get more players in the high performance accademy that started at a younger age, they could be producing a pretty good team faster than expected.

 

[fabulousphil]

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20130409082130122

Quarterly highlights from AIS-AFL vs Europe, some suprisingly good footballers playing for Europe, can pick the Gaelic footballers from a mile away, have that round the corner kicking style and are seemingly very good through traffic with their evasiveness

 

[Barkly St End]

http://www.worldfootynews.com/article.php/20130409082130122

Quarterly highlights from AIS-AFL vs Europe, some suprisingly good footballers playing for Europe, can pick the Gaelic footballers from a mile away, have that round the corner kicking style and are seemingly very good through traffic with their evasiveness

Also on WFN you'll find results from a footy carnival currently being played in Townsville featuring PNG, NZ and a combined Oceania team - some of the results are quite close, in fact, there were two draws from the first four games.

 

[fabulousphil]

There isn't and that's ok. It takes time and you'll be changing the culture of what people are used to and have been offered for years.

At the end of the day the signing of Kurt and Shem has done more for the code in the last 10 years than any amount of participation numbers have.

Now if only they'd give me a call about my boy.

Thought you may be interested in another Kiwi boy.

http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=5&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=1832&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=9841077c44

 

[Aucklander]

Thought you may be interested in another Kiwi boy.

http://www.aflq.com.au/index.php?id=5&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=1832&tx_ttnews[backPid]=4&cHash=9841077c44

That's great. There will be plenty more of those types just waiting for a chance at something different. The last few months have been massive positives for the game.

 

[HaroCant]

This is cool

 

[papabear]

How much of the international footy is locally funded supported and how much is AFL centrally funded and supported.

Shouold the AFL position change where they have to invest more into the local product / local leagues and their isnt enough to through at international AR, how many of these comps would survive / die?

Ie
NZ
SA
PNG
USA
CANADA
etc etc

On a further extension to that point, what return on investment is the AFL getting for its promotion of AR internationally?

 

[cos789]

How much of the international footy is locally funded supported and how much is AFL centrally funded and supported.

To the best of my knowledge until recently there was very little investment in Australian Football outside of Australia. Again, to the best of my knowledge the AFL has made significant contributions to Australian Football in the RSA, PNG, NZ and the Pacific but the amounts are not really significant in comparison to overall AFL expenditure.

Very little would change.
The RSA receives funding by the RSA government and private enterprise.
The PNG would stop it's rapid expansion in the AFL pathways.
NZ would stop it's extremely rapid expansion in participation numbers.
The rest of the world would continue on much like normal.

The returns are huge for Australian Football in the numbers participating in Australian Football.
The returns are much more long term for the AFL.
The AFL created the NEAFL which has lead to formation of the elite NT Thunder.
The PNG has established pathways with Qld and there are a number of PNG players playing sub AFL.
There is talk of a PNG side playing in Qld then maybe the NEAFL following in the footsteps of the NT Thunder.
NZ has seen a massive boost in participation in Australian Football and requires further time and money for effects to flow onto community football. However the recent AFL game in Wellington was a huge financial success and provides a possible solution to some AFL clubs.
Football in the RSA keeps expanding but as of yet hasn't produced too many AFL picks.
The AFL has invested in the Pacific and established a South Pacific team and a World team.
The World team which is basically home grown amateurs from the Northern hemisphere has done extremely well at recent championships. This is very similar to the AFL holding talent camps to extract potential AFL players which is effectively a very low cost way of recruiting.

 

[StevenFutureAFL]

I think the AFL need to get the structure of the State Leagues set up correctly first, with a second division and promotion from State Leagues. If we are going to have international teams playing in the AFL they would need to be clubs, like for instance Wellington or Auckland, rather than a New Zealand team.

I think the AFL should put a lot more money into developing league structures in places like New Zealand, Canada and PNG, however they don't seem to be supporting and expanding leagues like the WAFL or SANFL, so I am not sure if they will, they are too busy creating new teams with no history or tradition like GWS, in an attempt to bankrupt themselves.

I would love to see a lot more money going to create professional leagues overseas, as well as supporting the State leagues in Aus, so I think this is a great idea.

 

[jatz14]

I think the AFL need to get the structure of the State Leagues set up correctly first, with a second division and promotion from State Leagues. If we are going to have international teams playing in the AFL they would need to be clubs, like for instance Wellington or Auckland, rather than a New Zealand team.

I think the AFL should put a lot more money into developing league structures in places like New Zealand, Canada and PNG, however they don't seem to be supporting and expanding leagues like the WAFL or SANFL, so I am not sure if they will, they are too busy creating new teams with no history or tradition like GWS, in an attempt to bankrupt themselves.

I would love to see a lot more money going to create professional leagues overseas, as well as supporting the State leagues in Aus, so I think this is a great idea.

I think the idea is that the state leagues are supposed to be independent self financing entities. The WAFL already gets a bucket load of cash from the Eagles and Dockers via the WAFC, but it is not financed by the AFL directly. Also, the AFL is not responsible for the structure of the WAFL, it is the WAFL and the WAFC that are responsible.

Small affordable amounts overseas can have a big impact (or be completely wasted, nothing is certain), but the same amount in a state league would have little effect at all.

 

[StevenFutureAFL]

I think the idea is that the state leagues are supposed to be independent self financing entities. The WAFL already gets a bucket load of cash from the Eagles and Dockers via the WAFC, but it is not financed by the AFL directly. Also, the AFL is not responsible for the structure of the WAFL, it is the WAFL and the WAFC that are responsible.

Small affordable amounts overseas can have a big impact (or be completely wasted, nothing is certain), but the same amount in a state league would have little effect at all.

I thought the AFL would have some financial interest in leagues like the SANFL and WAFL being strong, but I suppose they don't. It seems all they are interested in with the VFL is allowing AFL clubs to place their own reserves teams, making it difficult for stand alone clubs to survive.

I think the AFL would have a financial interest in the NEAFL, with Gold Coast and GWS in those leagues. It is just that I think these State clubs should have the ability to work their way up and one day play in an AFL second division, which is why I was suggesting the money could be used to help these leagues. It would be great if strong clubs like Claremont could develop a side good enough to make their way into the AFL, even if it was only a 2nd division.

This is a fair way off though, and a bit off topic, but more strong clubs outside of the AFL competition is surely a good thing for the AFL overall. If a New Zealand AFL league was strong and had financial support, maybe a team could one day enter the AFL from NZ.

 

[cos789]

I think the AFL need to get the structure of the State Leagues set up correctly first, with a second division and promotion from State Leagues. .

State leagues are the foundation stone of Australian Football in Australia however the only state league team promoted to the AFL has been that of Port Adelaide, Australia's most successful sporting team, however it has failed to gain momentum as other SANFL supporters refuse to support their once rival. Similarly the GCFC was named the Suns not the Southport Sharks so as not to offside the rest of QAFL supporters.

If we are going to have international teams playing in the AFL they would need to be clubs, like for instance Wellington or Auckland, rather than a New Zealand team.

Last I knew Auckland and Wellington were in NZ.

II think the AFL should put a lot more money into developing league structures in places like New Zealand, Canada and PNG, .

The AFL invests in the RSA, NZ and the PNG in creating pathways to the AFL.
Arguably Toronto has the strongest league outside of Australia and that is self driven.

they don't seem to be supporting and expanding leagues like the WAFL or SANFL,.

That's because the WAFL and SANFL are highly successful and independant leagues in competition with the AFL.

they are too busy creating new teams with no history or tradition .

It's a bit hard to have a new team with history and tradition but the GC Suns are quickly building a history and showing a profit. The AFL have created the NEAFL and that has lead to the formation of the NT Thunder which started in the QAFL and then charged into the NEAFL. There is talk about the PNG following in the NT Thunder's footsteps by entering a team into the QAFL. Whilst sometime in the future a NZ team might play in the NEAFL it is more probable that an elite team would be created for the AFL.

 

[cos789]

The WAFL already gets a bucket load of cash from the Eagles and Dockers via the WAFC, but it is not financed by the AFL directly. .

The WAFC controlls the WAFL, Eagles and Dockers and as such, a proportion of profits from those two AFL teams are directed towards the WAFL competition.

 

[StevenFutureAFL]

State leagues are the foundation stone of Australian Football in Australia however the only state league team promoted to the AFL has been that of Port Adelaide, Australia's most successful sporting team, however it has failed to gain momentum as other SANFL supporters refuse to support their once rival. Similarly the GCFC was named the Suns not the Southport Sharks so as not to offside the rest of QAFL supporters.

Port Adelaide are a successful club, who have won a premiership and are probably going to play finals this year. They have been much more successful than Fremantle. Also an issue with Port Adelaide is that they still play in the SANFL as the Magpies, this problem has more to do with Collingwood being called the Magpies too, it would be possible to have 2 teams with the same mascot.

Last I knew Auckland and Wellington were in NZ.

No, I was just saying it should be a club team not an international team, like Auckland Angels instead of New Zealand Warriors for example.

That's because the WAFL and SANFL are highly successful and independant leagues in competition with the AFL.

I don't think the WAFL and SANFL should be competing with the AFL, they should be seen as a lower level leagues, which teams can be promoted to the AFL from. So should the VFL, but I guess with the rich Victorian clubs taking over the VFL there is not much chance of that.

It's a bit hard to have a new team with history and tradition but the GC Suns are quickly building a history and showing a profit. The AFL have created the NEAFL and that has lead to the formation of the NT Thunder which started in the QAFL and then charged into the NEAFL. There is talk about the PNG following in the NT Thunder's footsteps by entering a team into the QAFL. Whilst sometime in the future a NZ team might play in the NEAFL it is more probable that an elite team would be created for the AFL.

I don't mind the idea of creating new teams, but creating new successful teams in the State Leagues makes more sense, rather than throwing them into the deep end of the AFL. Also we have so many teams in Australia with a rich tradition, why do they not deserve to be in the AFl, over a new franchise like GWS.

 

[cos789]

Port Adelaide are a successful club, who have won a premiership and are probably going to play finals this year.

PA have had success, but they struggle with gaining support of SANFL influenced people.

They have been much more successful than Fremantle.

But for now and the future it's clearly Fremantle.

Also an issue with Port Adelaide is that they still play in the SANFL

They did and they do and that's why they don't get support from SANFL fans.

this problem has more to do with Collingwood being called the Magpies too,

Absolute BS.

No, I was just saying it should be a club team not an international team.

Any club playing out of NZ in the AFL will be an international team.

I don't think the WAFL and SANFL should be competing with the AFL,

Well they are because they are the original leagues that developed Australian Football and still are the expression of grassroots football. The AFL is just the elite showcase league.

I don't mind the idea of creating new teams, but creating new successful teams in the State Leagues makes more sense.

Makes no sense at all.

Also we have so many teams in Australia with a rich tradition, why do they not deserve to be in the AFL,

Because we have 18 teams inthe AFL already.
Because no team is anywhere near bridging the gap.
Because state teams disenfranchise other state team supporters.

 

[StevenFutureAFL]

Because no team is anywhere near bridging the gap.

Are teams that come into the EPL expected to bridge the gap with Manchester United and Chelsea? No but you give them a go, and they can surprise you. I saw Melbourne Victory compete with Liverpool pretty well at the MCG on Wednesday night, you can't tell me there is a bigger gap between Melbourne and Claremont, compared to Liverpool v Melbourne Victory

 

[cos789]

Melbourne and Claremont,

Let's look at Australian Football as played in Australia as in elite football and second tier.
IMO there is only one code that requires more infrastructure and that is American Football.
American Football requires a shedule of about 50 players.
Australian Football requires 22 players onfield and a list of about 46.
That is one reason why these codes don't have promotion/relegation.
The Melbourne Demons have an AFL list.
The Claremont Tigers have a WAFL list.
Both these codes have requirements of large stadia at the elite level.
The Melbourne Demons have the MCG.
The Claremont Tigers have Claremont Oval.
Both the AFL and NFL clubs have huge turnovers.
The Melbourne Demons have the turnover of an AFL club.
The Claremont Tigers have the turnover of a WAFL club.

The Australian game of Australian Football as played in Australia with the tradional setup of 18 players a side on the field and four on the bench is a unique game. Even though huge advances in defensive tactics have been introduced lately the game is attacking based and high scoring. Even the small differences between clubs in existing leagues sometimes cause considerable blowouts.

The more you go back in history the more competitve the various state leagues were
but at present there is a huge gulf between state leagues and the AFL.
There would have to be almightly adjustments to access to talent that the AFL clubs would not tolerate but the biggest question is WTF would you bother when the AFL does so well in advancing all the KPIs associated with the business of football and other codes aren't.