The Swans Model

[Tulip]

Plenty of suggestions around that we're a rabble and need another rebuild. Personally, I don't think this is true, nor do I have the patience for another 5 year plan - especially with Jim no longer being with us.

We need to have a look at the Sydney way of recruitment

Yes, we've royally ****ed up our drafting recently, but that doesn't mean it is the end of us. The Swans were nowhere before they took a few chances: Hall, Davis, McGlynn, Kennedy, Mattner and now Morton. These players aren't always world beaters, but they're the types who will come onto a list and give their all for it. I'd not be adverse to us getting rid of a mix of young and senior talent for some talented players who've been shafted (Ellis, Young, Osborn are all Hawthorn examples) by their club and would do a lot for first team football. We need to change the culture, and this is a way of doing do. Clark was bad on Saturday, but there's enough to work with and that's a risk i'd have condoned.

Barry Prendergast is no longer with us, while Craig Cameron is at the head of another Richmond draft.

We have the opportunity to make a play for a recruiter (what happened to that guy Taylor from Collingwood) and really look at other teams players to change what it means to wear red and blue at the current time.

Take a core group of players and make them untouchables:
Watts, Jamar, Clark, Trengove, Frawley, Howe, Grimes, Petterd, Jones and Tapscott (as a roughy) would be mine.

Then look at players who we would rather not let go of but would be valuable as bargaining chips:
Garland, Blease, Martin, Moloney, Bartram, Morton, Sylvia, Blease, Bail, Dunn

Lose these players, and quickly:
Davey, Green, Bennell, MacDonald (feel bad about this one, love commitment but just not up to it) and possibly even Rivers

Give these players a chance this season:
Gysberts, Strauss, Cook, Magner, Nicholson, Evans, Couch, McDonald, Davis, Fitzpatrick

Left out Gawn due to injury and Jurrah because we have NFC where he will be in the coming year.

Gotta run before proof reading, so it's been rushed. What do you think?

 

[Bluelegs]

There was an article where Paul Roos talked about Gold Coast's GWS's recruitment and how they went wrong by overlooking "recyclable" players, it's been the heart and soul of Sydney's recruitment for the past few years.

Here it is: http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/131381/default.aspx

I think it's our only option over the next few years to find the hidden gems. We've got a great start with Magner (so far), if we are able to find even more players who are being overlooked then we might be able to finally start climbing the ladder. I also believe that a 23 year old who has been overlooked for five years is going to be a lot more grateful for an opportunity than a 17 year old who has been handed a position on a silver platter.

 

[Dez!]

Or (crazy thought) be pissed off with the pathetic display on Saturday, get over it and realise that it was just round 1 and we still have an entire season to go.

I understand logic isn't encouraged of BigFooty but I thought we could give it a try.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I agree - we really need to bring in a couple of good 23+ year olds at the end of the season.

Hopefully with our compo picks.

My preferred situation;

Somehow get at least one (preferably ten) gun 21-25 year old mid into the club (use both our compo if we have to), I'm talking the Dangerfield's, Boak's, Redden's, Gaff's etc.

If we get Viney (I know it's early but he's excellent), Trengove, Grimes and another gun into our midfield we will be looking a shit load better.

My second preferred;

Bring in two good players with each of our compo picks; preferable age range between 23 and 25 (go younger if there's a bargain on offer), preferably midfielders.

Thinking along the lines of a Wellingham-esque type.

Least preferred; draft at least one more young mid - along with Viney.

Obviously this depends upon where we finish, if we finish 14th and get picks 5 and 6.... I'd probably be in favor of using at least one of them on draft day - unless we could get an absolute superstar mid in; or two gun mids.

 

[whelan=legend]

Or (crazy thought) be pissed off with the pathetic display on Saturday, get over it and realise that it was just round 1 and we still have an entire season to go.

I understand logic isn't encouraged of BigFooty but I thought we could give it a try.

Yeah, this.

 

[Demons2012]

Agree with Dez! While i was super disapointed with the weekends display, I feel there has been a massive over reaction to it. Brisbane are an underrated side this year but more importantly we had a bad day. Agree with recruiting a few older/ more experienced players but that's not going to turn it around overnight. Remember we got Magner and Sellar in 2011 we cant recruit many more than that per year.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Or (crazy thought) be pissed off with the pathetic display on Saturday, get over it and realise that it was just round 1 and we still have an entire season to go.

I understand logic isn't encouraged of BigFooty but I thought we could give it a try.

I can see where HFF is going with this but I have to agree with Dez. There is still 23 rounds of football to be played and there is plenty of time for the players to learn the game plan and play some better footy.

If we have another shit season then your claims are spot on. We have 3 first rounders and I have a feeling the club will be happy to trade one, if not both, if there is a gun player out there they can nab. Use one pick on Viney, another on a gun forward or midfielder and we look better already.

 

[LeverPuller]

Free agents list.

Hawthorn players.

Luke Hodge.
Sam Mitchell.

OR St Kilda players.

Lenny Hayes.

Seriously. Throw a 3 year contract at them, the first two years as a playing contract and the third as a coaching. Say 'we want you to start our success, take us towards a flag, show these kids what it's all about.' Exactly what GWS have done.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Free agents list.

Hawthorn players.

Luke Hodge.
Sam Mitchell.

OR St Kilda players.

Lenny Hayes.

Seriously. Throw a 3 year contract at them, the first two years as a playing contract and the third as a coaching. Say 'we want you to start our success, take us towards a flag, show these kids what it's all about.' Exactly what GWS have done.

Hayes maybe, but there is no way Hodge or Mitchell would leave Hawthorn, a team in a premiership window for the next few years, to come and play for us for a few extra dollars.

We need to chase midfielders in the 23-24 bracket with close to or just more than 100+ games under their belts. A guy like Dangerfield is one that springs to mind.

But we would be no chance in landing Hodge or Mitchell and I couldn't see Lenny ever leaving St. Kilda unless they told him he was no longer required.

 

[LeverPuller]

Hayes maybe, but there is no way Hodge or Mitchell would leave Hawthorn, a team in a premiership window for the next few years, to come and play for us for a few extra dollars.

We need to chase midfielders in the 23-24 bracket with close to or just more than 100+ games under their belts. A guy like Dangerfield is one that springs to mind.

But we would be no chance in landing Hodge or Mitchell and I couldn't see Lenny ever leaving St. Kilda unless they told him he was no longer required.

Saints are genuinely about to go into full rebuild. And what the hell do we have to lose? I agree Hodge and Mitchell are unlikely, but gee, we're at the bottom of the barrel right now. These are the kind of guys that will bring us up.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Saints are genuinely about to go into full rebuild. And what the hell do we have to lose? I agree Hodge and Mitchell are unlikely, but gee, we're at the bottom of the barrel right now. These are the kind of guys that will bring us up.

We don't have anything to lose, agree with that. But we need to have realistic targets here. If Hodge or Mitchell were interstate or in desperate need of a change then I'd be right behind it, but we need to choose our targets a little better. I'd LOVE to have any of those 3 in the red and blue but it's a long shot at best.

If we were to throw one, or two, of our picks on the table, who is out there that we could chase and offer a good contract to?

And looking at who are unrestricted free agents at the end of the year we have Bate, Dunn, Rivers and Jamar (and one else I think). Interested to see, outside of Jamar who just recently signed a new contract I think, who we let go easily at years end.

 

[Tulip]

I think some people may have misconstrued what I've said: We are not a 'rabble' and we aren't in need of a rebuild. What we are in need of is a change in culture, and while Neeld and Clark help, we should get some big bodies in and maybe even a star St Kilda player in the ilk of Joey or Hayes in (depending on where we finish this year) to get us to where we want to be.

 

[Tulip]

B to the UMPire

 

[demonfan9]

I think the OP is on the money. Taking skinny 18 year olds is not gonna help out short-term prospects. We lack quality senior players to set the tone at the club and get us out of this mess. This was evident in the fact that we recruited three 24 year olds this season (Clark, Magner, Sellar). Coincidentally, two of them were in our best three today. Imagine how much worse the score would have been if we didn't have Clark or Magner tonight. Neeld obviously recognised the need for experience, hence why we recruited as such. I think this season will prove that we need to keep going down this path.

Green, Davey and Macdonald will probably be gone at seasons end, which means our senior stocks will be even further depleted (not that any of them offer the team anything). With free agency coming in, we'll have the opportunity to sign some experienced fringe players from other sides. We've also created a recruiting position at the club specifically to focus on state leagues like the VFL, so you can almost guaranee we'll look for another mature player like Magner.

In the draft we'll get Viney (strong young body) and two first round picks (hopefully two gems given it's meant to be a super draft). After those three kids, I hope we then recruit a couple of mature players from elsewhere. This means we get three quality kids for the future, and an injection of experience which we desperately need.

 

[Membling]

Apologies for intruding but i randomly scan boards and the 'swans model' caught my interest.

What i notice of melbourne is the lack of 22-26 year olds to take the pressure of the younger players as has been stated. For the sydney model it is based on getting.tried and tested players relatively cheap by identifying clubs who have a surplus of players in positions we need eg mumford with geelong, kennedy at hawks.

With the super draft you could easily pick up some players with 3rd to 5th round.draft picks. Players of the ilk ellis, cornelius, tuohy, rounds etc could help. A rookie pick on myles sewell could also be a.very good pick up in my opinion.

In my opinion you guys aren't as much of a basket case as the footy would seema to think, just need a few 22-26 year olds to do some grunt work in the middle and let the kids develop.

Good luck for the rest of the season

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Bit of a bump; here's a list of free agents.

I bolded the ones I think we should have a look at as they could add something to our list...

FREE AGENTS

Adelaide Crows

Michael Doughty Unrestricted
Chris Knights Unrestricted - hard working midfielder/forward

Brisbane Lions

Jed Adcock Restricted
Simon Black Unrestricted
Jonathan Brown Unrestricted
Josh Drummond Restricted
Ash McGrath Unrestricted

Carlton

Heath Scotland Restricted
Jordan Russell Unrestricted - good mover and disposer off half back; would slot in nicely IMO
Bret Thornton Unrestricted

Collingwood

Travis Cloke Restricted
Ben Johnson Unrestricted
Harry O'Brien Restricted
Heath Shaw Restricted

Essendon

Ricky Dyson Unrestricted
Dustin Fletcher Unrestricted
David Hille Unrestricted
Nathan Lovett-Murray Unrestricted
Mark McVeigh Unrestricted
Angus Monfries Restricted
Henry Slattery Unrestricted
Brent Stanton Restricted

Fremantle

Ryan Crowley Unrestricted - Tough nut role player; can run all day and is unsociable
Antoni Grover Unrestricted
Luke McPharlin Unrestricted

Geelong

Shannon Byrnes Unrestricted - proven small forward
Paul Chapman Unrestricted
Corey Enright Unrestricted
Josh Hunt Unrestricted
Steve Johnson Unrestricted
Matthew Scarlett Unrestricted
David Wojcinski Unrestricted

Hawthorn

Chance Bateman Unrestricted
Luke Hodge Unrestricted
Sam Mitchell Unrestricted
Thomas Murphy Unrestricted
Michael Osborne Unrestricted
Brad Sewell Restricted - great in and under midfielder
Clinton Young Unrestricted

Melbourne Demons

Matthew Bate Unrestricted
Lynden Dunn Unrestricted
Brad Green Unrestricted
Mark Jamar Unrestricted
Brent Moloney Restricted
Jared Rivers Unrestricted

North Melbourne

Brent Harvey Unrestricted
Michael Firrito Unrestricted

Port Adelaide

Domenic Cassisi Unrestricted
Troy Chaplin Restricted
Brett Ebert Unrestricted
Danyle Pearce Restricted
Steven Salopek Unrestricted
Jacob Surjan Unrestricted - solid defender with good disposal

Richmond

Brett Deledio Restricted
Nathan Foley Restricted
Luke McGuane Restricted
Kelvin Moore Unrestricted
Shane Tuck Unrestricted

St Kilda

Jason Blake Unrestricted
Raphael Clarke Unrestricted
Sam Fisher Restricted
Brendon Goddard Restricted
Jason Gram Restricted
James Gwilt Unrestricted
Lenny Hayes Unrestricted
Justin Koschitzke Unrestricted
Stephen Milne Unrestricted
Leigh Montagna Unrestricted - quality outside midfielder, may be open to leaving a Saints team that struggles

Sydney Swans

Jude Bolton Unrestricted
Jarrad McVeigh Restricted
Jarred Moore Unrestricted

West Coast

Sam Butler Unrestricted
Andrew Embley Unrestricted
Darren Glass Unrestricted
Daniel Kerr Unrestricted
Quinten Lynch Unrestricted
Mark Nicoski Unrestricted - great role player, could move into the midfield but adds value down back or up forward.
Matt Rosa Unrestricted

Western Bulldogs

Lindsay Gilbee Unrestricted
Ryan Hargrave Unrestricted
Will Minson Unrestricted

 

[SPC 98]

Bit of a bump; here's a list of free agents.

I bolded the ones I think we should have a look at as they could add something to our list...

FREE AGENTS

Adelaide Crows

Michael Doughty Unrestricted
Chris Knights Unrestricted - hard working midfielder/forward

Brisbane Lions

Jed Adcock Restricted
Simon Black Unrestricted
Jonathan Brown Unrestricted
Josh Drummond Restricted
Ash McGrath Unrestricted

Carlton

Heath Scotland Restricted
Jordan Russell Unrestricted - good mover and disposer off half back; would slot in nicely IMO
Bret Thornton Unrestricted

Collingwood

Travis Cloke Restricted
Ben Johnson Unrestricted
Harry O'Brien Restricted
Heath Shaw Restricted

Essendon

Ricky Dyson Unrestricted
Dustin Fletcher Unrestricted
David Hille Unrestricted
Nathan Lovett-Murray Unrestricted
Mark McVeigh Unrestricted
Angus Monfries Restricted
Henry Slattery Unrestricted
Brent Stanton Restricted

Fremantle

Ryan Crowley Unrestricted - Tough nut role player; can run all day and is unsociable
Antoni Grover Unrestricted
Luke McPharlin Unrestricted

Geelong

Shannon Byrnes Unrestricted - proven small forward
Paul Chapman Unrestricted
Corey Enright Unrestricted
Josh Hunt Unrestricted
Steve Johnson Unrestricted
Matthew Scarlett Unrestricted
David Wojcinski Unrestricted

Hawthorn

Chance Bateman Unrestricted
Luke Hodge Unrestricted
Sam Mitchell Unrestricted
Thomas Murphy Unrestricted
Michael Osborne Unrestricted
Brad Sewell Restricted - great in and under midfielder
Clinton Young Unrestricted

Melbourne Demons

Matthew Bate Unrestricted
Lynden Dunn Unrestricted
Brad Green Unrestricted
Mark Jamar Unrestricted
Brent Moloney Restricted
Jared Rivers Unrestricted

North Melbourne

Brent Harvey Unrestricted
Michael Firrito Unrestricted

Port Adelaide

Domenic Cassisi Unrestricted
Troy Chaplin Restricted
Brett Ebert Unrestricted
Danyle Pearce Restricted
Steven Salopek Unrestricted
Jacob Surjan Unrestricted - solid defender with good disposal

Richmond

Brett Deledio Restricted
Nathan Foley Restricted
Luke McGuane Restricted
Kelvin Moore Unrestricted
Shane Tuck Unrestricted

St Kilda

Jason Blake Unrestricted
Raphael Clarke Unrestricted
Sam Fisher Restricted
Brendon Goddard Restricted
Jason Gram Restricted
James Gwilt Unrestricted
Lenny Hayes Unrestricted
Justin Koschitzke Unrestricted
Stephen Milne Unrestricted
Leigh Montagna Unrestricted - quality outside midfielder, may be open to leaving a Saints team that struggles

Sydney Swans

Jude Bolton Unrestricted
Jarrad McVeigh Restricted
Jarred Moore Unrestricted

West Coast

Sam Butler Unrestricted
Andrew Embley Unrestricted
Darren Glass Unrestricted
Daniel Kerr Unrestricted
Quinten Lynch Unrestricted
Mark Nicoski Unrestricted - great role player, could move into the midfield but adds value down back or up forward.
Matt Rosa Unrestricted

Western Bulldogs

Lindsay Gilbee Unrestricted
Ryan Hargrave Unrestricted
Will Minson Unrestricted

Great post... We are in dire straits if we don't score some good mature age players in the off season!! There is some good ones out their, and we have a proven record with rejects from other clubs, excluding; Moorcroft/ Heffernan and a few others.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

I'm not having a shot a the dee's with this. that said if you go the route that my beloved swans has taken it's very long term forget roo's it started before barassi sure when barassi arrived he turned things around but it began with the exodus. senior players left those that wanted to be at the club, believed in the club stayed the so called "greats" left and the likes of Carroll and Kelly stood up and kept the team together.

3 coaches sticking with the same recruitment process and same overall game plan before we finally got a flag. the only changes we've made has been refining our setup becoming better and better at that game plan its almost a brand of footy at the swans.

we haven't even really adapted or changed things as the game as a whole changed only just now are we starting to bring in a forward press, perhaps the game plan is why the recruiting process has worked so well at the swans, we pick people that we see fit into our style of play and have faith in the team long term those no longer interested arent hung onto no matter how skilled (see hall).

Also don't forget Over time we built up what is arguably the BEST leadership program of any team.

These are long term processes theirs a lot of pain before it even starts to work you need people on the team that are willing to stick it out and you need people to have faith in the structure of the development you can't say "this isn't working" just a year or two into the development and switch things up. I don't think any single thing on its own is the answer its a combination. but just like Sydney I think it needs to start with an exodus of senior players that probably don't want to be there anyway.

 

[CowboyFromHell]

Cheers for the list TPM - many players out there and some that we could possibly entice across at the end of the year.

I wouldn't rule out us trying to nab an established player with one of our picks either as I just can't see Neeld going for another 3 kids. I think seeing him take Sellar, Magner and Couch shows that he wants more experience in the side.

The only few I would argue with from your list are the inside mids - we have enough of them already and will get another in Viney. I would be happy to have a crack at Chris Knights or Shannan Byrnes as they can be the small forward we need.

Would love to land a big fish like Montagna too - Watters mentioned today that he might have to let one of his stars go. For us, letting Green go, shifting Davey to the vets list and seeing guys like Bate and Dunn go and allow us to throw some serious cash at a gun player.

Will be an interesting off season in terms of player movement this year. Thanks for the list too, much appreciate.

 

[Enforcer25]

The "Swans Model" only works when we instill the correct CULTURE first.

If we did that, we have enough talented players to not even need to go down that path.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

That's one of the reasons I think we should MAINLY pursue the players who have come from a successful club recently.

Nicoski and Byrnes sit top of my list.

 

[Crusty Demon]

I like the Surjan call. He is a tough medium sized defender who can hit targets coming out of defence. The exact type of player we need down back.

Chris Knights might be worth a look. He is injury prone, but if right, could give us a touch of class around the middle or flanks.

Shannon Byrnes could also add something to our list. Although not sure how he would go without the guns around him. But has pace and can snag a goal or two.

Montagna isn't a bad call either, but it will cost us. Provides good run and carry down the wings.

Nicoski/Rosa - doubt Nicoski would come over to Vic as he is a WA boy, but Rosa could be another player we could acquire reasonably cheaply.

I also have mentioned Myles Sewell here a few times(last year and the year before). I'm not sure what it is recruiters don't see in him. To me, he is worth at least a rookie spot. Should be one we look at.

Either way, we need to look at recruiting several quick midfielders at the end of the year who can hit targets. I don't care if they aren't massive ball magnets, but they have to be quick and they have to be solid by foot. Running defenders and quick midfielders are a priority. A small forward or two is definitely needed also. I can see us not picking any talls next draft.

 

[demonfan9]

I think it's the way to go. Take a look at Hawthorn for example. They picked up experienced players like Brent Guerra and Stuart Dew for peanuts, and they played a crucial role in their premiership side.

Given our serious lack of senior quality, we need to fast-track the list and give it an injection of class and experience. Already in this pre-season we have brought Clark, Sellar, Magner and Couch into the club (all 23-24yo's). I hope we do similar next season, with a particularly focus on quality ball users.

 

[Ando727]

The only problem with this is the fact that our club culture has such a bad reputation, it would be hard to convince these seasoned players to come to us. Hawthorn and Sydney have no trouble recruiting players because they have a solid reputation.

 

[Crusty Demon]

The only problem with this is the fact that our club culture has such a bad reputation, it would be hard to convince these seasoned players to come to us. Hawthorn and Sydney have no trouble recruiting players because they have a solid reputation.

This is true, but money can play a part. We have some room in the cap, and with Davey being moved to the Veterans List next season, this will free up even more coin.

Also with a player like Matt Rosa or Chris Knights, the lure of coming home might have some weight. With the spending of our football department(off field) and with our top notch facilities now, I think luring mid tier players shouldn't be an issue.