The Young Talent

[Falcon]

On the 19/05 edition of Footy Classified, Hutchy said that the Saints had no real talent coming through and that their under 22's are not that flash. And Garry Lyon believes St. Kilda's premiership window is long closed.

I disagree with both of them. True, the saints aren't blooding alot of young talent recently, and there are a few guys coming close to the end( ie Harvey, Gehrig) but I don't think the young talent is all that bad and that St. Kilda's premiership window is closed.

Look at David Armitage, Sam Gilbert, Jarryn Geary and Clinton Jones(23yo?) who have all played this year. That is some promising talent, all of which have proven can play the game. More time into Geary and he could become a very capable midfielder, he was a magnet in the NAB cup and early games. Racked up the stats in all games and if given more chances could be easily starting 22 in a new phase for St. Kilda. Same with Jones. Really enjoyed watching him play, looked hungry for the footy and did some pretty encouraging things, especially that huge mark in round 1. Also having a field day at Casey according to the reports. Maybe a tad older but at 23 has years. Armitage and Gilbert are already starting 22 and look very good so far.

Then look at St. Kilda's next string. Jarred Allen is a big body and could be a successful forward, same with Matty Ferguson who has hands of steel but hasn't been given a real crack. Kicking bags for the Scorpions. Ben McEvoy our first round choice, is already knocking on the senior sides door and could be the next ruck answer, and not a quick fix. Jack Steven looked good, is still at school so expect to see more from the young fella in the next few years, would be booming with confidence after putting away Geelong with last minute kick in the NAB cup.

Plus most of our core group is still not at peak age. And Adam Schneider, Sean Dempster are both 24 and Charlie Gardiner, who has the potential isn't too old. I just don't think the window is closed yet.

 

[mick13]

It's not bad when you look at it that way, it's just compared to other teams who could rattle off 5-10+ names, it is...

 

[sauce_head]

It is not good. Most of the names you mentioned are not doing anything impressive, especially when they players above them leave and they are exposed and worked out. We have got a bit of a gulf opening up but it is not as bad as it was a season or two ago.

 

[BrianSpeaking]

Who cares what Hutchy says, he is just a leach, rumour mongering journo who had no footy ability. G Lyon keeps changing his mind week after week, perhaps they should be potting Melbourne, Freo, Essendon and West Coast.

 

[sauce_head]

they are jealous of our media exposure. it really is amazing how talked about we are for a club like ours.

 

[35Harvs]

Who cares what Hutchy says, he is just a leach, rumour mongering journo who had no footy ability. G Lyon keeps changing his mind week after week, perhaps they should be potting Melbourne, Freo, Essendon and West Coast.

My sentiments exactly - Lyon chops & changes each week - Hutchy, well I couldn't really care what he thinks.

So, in the space of 2 months we've gone from challengers to the flag, to a side with 0 kids coming thru & its all doom & gloom. give me a break.

Also, are we the ONLY side with a "window"??

 

[Frankencow]

I have read good things about Ferguson's games at Casey. Is this the same Ferguson Grant Thomas used as a defender?

Any thoughts on Ferguson in for Gehrig this week? I reckon it's time to start blooding youngsters. Blooding youngsters doesn't always mean you're writing off a year, as I still think we'll play finals and will need the depth then. Armitage has been great and is a good example of this. I think we eed to invest similar game time into Ferguson and Allen. We already know what Jones can do (hard at it, needs to keep improving skills) and saw good things in Geary (who I would also like to see more).

 

[makemytime]

Yeah probably going to be a few changes with Raph Clarke and Gehrig almost definitely out

 

[Bornsaint]

Robert Eddy is another kid that played NAB Cup and was impressive. Tough, fast and skillful. James Gwilt has been in the best players for 5 weeks running but Raph keeps getting a run. Plenty of guys that can come in despite so called reporters comments.

 

[mad-saint-guy]

I disagree with both of them. True, the saints aren't blooding alot of young talent recently, and there are a few guys coming close to the end( ie Harvey, Gehrig) but I don't think the young talent is all that bad and that St. Kilda's premiership window is closed.

We've blooded the least amount of players in the last 3 or 4 years by an absolute mile. We've brought some promising young players to the club in the past couple of years, but for some reason we refuse to play them..

Look at David Armitage, Sam Gilbert, Jarryn Geary and Clinton Jones(23yo?) who have all played this year. That is some promising talent, all of which have proven can play the game.

Armitage is a gun. Early pick in the the superdraft and should play the rest of the season.

Geary should also be in the team. Was playing well early in the year and was then dropped for defensive GOPs incapable of having any real positive impact. Isn't going to get anything out of cruising around in the VFL when he knows he's good enough for the AFL.

Gilbert will be a handy player, but that's about it. His disposal isn't much chop, his defensive game has been ordinary and he seemed to lack confidence before his injury. And he isn't a raw kid anymore (almost 22).

Jones is 24 and not up to the standard required for AFL footy. Statistically last year he was the worst kick in the competition by a mile and his decision-making is horrible. Should never play again.

Then look at St. Kilda's next string. Jarred Allen is a big body and could be a successful forward, same with Matty Ferguson who has hands of steel but hasn't been given a real crack. Kicking bags for the Scorpions. Ben McEvoy our first round choice, is already knocking on the senior sides door and could be the next ruck answer, and not a quick fix. Jack Steven looked good, is still at school so expect to see more from the young fella in the next few years, would be booming with confidence after putting away Geelong with last minute kick in the NAB cup.

Allen has good skills but may lack the pace to be successful. Deserves a chance anyway.

Ferguson is no better than Charlie Gardiner or Dempster and is 23.

McEvoy should be good, but at the moment his ruck work isn't up to scratch and he doesn't have the pace to be a permanent forward.

Steven also looks promising but is a long way away.

We have a few good young prospects, but we are still a long way behind most teams in that regard.

Plus most of our core group is still not at peak age. And Adam Schneider, Sean Dempster are both 24 and Charlie Gardiner, who has the potential isn't too old. I just don't think the window is closed yet.

Schneider is handy but inconsistent and injury prone. Dempster is a nothing player and Gardiner can not perform in a pressure situation.

And since our core age is about 24.5, that is no longer an excuse.

 

[Sainters66]

Jones is 24 and not up to the standard required for AFL footy. Statistically last year he was the worst kick in the competition by a mile (where is your evidence for this?) and his decision-making is horrible. Should never play again.


Perhaps YOU should never blog again. Some poor disposal aside, we think Jones is great.

 

[Frankencow]

Whatever happened to Sweeney from Tyabb?

 

[Miss Saints]

At least Jones always gives 110% and puts some excitement in the team. I think our young talent is as good as anyone's, the difference is we hardly give them a go. Jones plays one bad game and it's back to Casey. It was the same for Armitage last year. Lyon seems to be following the Sydney model where you have to play 100 reserves games before being given a go.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Whatever happened to Sweeney from Tyabb?

Delisted.

 

[The Punter]

Maybe we should bring back Barry Brooks?

On a more serious note, why does Armitage spend so little time on the ground? Could we get some TOG stats for him, oh Kildonian?

 

[Squizz]

On a more serious note, why does Armitage spend so little time on the ground? Could we get some TOG stats for him, oh Kildonian?

He's been between 45-55% TOG a number of times. I raised this on another thread - surely he is fit enough to run out 60%? We need his kicking and tackling skills on the ground as much as we can without burning him out.

 

[Squizz]

You've been on the MSG, MSG?

Gilbo is coming from a different background (so his skills will improve over time) and he's going to be a mainstay of our team in future years.

Comment that Jones should never play again is unrealistic. Not in our best 22, but has earned another opportunity. His kicking against Collingwood in the wind was much better. In the VFL he carries and kicks much more, which should be encouraged in the AFL (not much of a fan of his hanballs).

Ferguson is a different option to Chucky or Dempster - his skills have always been pretty good (he's just not quite the right size/speed for AFL).

Steven could be a real find - don't agree he's a long way away noting he was an "early age" pick (think he could have had another year in U18?).

I'll give Dempster plenty of credit for presenting many times as an option out of defence - we have struggled in this area before and he was the run to run his guts out when others do circle work at times.

 

[St DAC]

For those Jones fans who seem to think his skills will improve to match his undoubted endeavour think about this:

He is 24 years of age. He's been playing footy for at least 10 years or so, and he cannot kick right foot at all, and his kicking on his left foot is (compared to AFL standard) mediocre at absolute best. He's never been able to work on his disposal as much as he has over the past 2 years, and it's still poor. He regularly handballs to players out of position putting them under pressure and ensuring turnovers, and is inaccurate in front of goals.

His hardness is great; he's quite quick (although not lightning) and as brave as they come. That's not enough in today's game.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

It is interesting to look back at some of the old drafts. Selecting young players with the right stuff must be at least 80% black magic. It seems like the first few picks each year are fairly obvious, but after that its anyone's guess.

In 2003 ( when Raph Clarke was a first round pick ), Sam Fisher was fourth round after clubs like Melbourne completely passed on the round ( I'd bet they would like him now).

Another year Monty was a 3rd round pick.

It seems that you really don't know how good these guys will be until they are 22 or 23.
Some recruits may already be at their peak while others may still have plenty of untapped potential.

Ignoring injuries.
In general, reflexes/agility will not improve with age.
Speed and fitness can improve into the mid 20s depending on the level they are already at. Ball handling skills and kicking accuracy and marking can all improve as the player ages they are not limited by degeneration of the body.

Whether the player improves or not depends on the player and how he applies himself as well as the coaches recongnising the weaknesses and applying the correct training techniques.

I don't like to write off players like Jones, because I consider he has the physical attributes for the job, and If he has the right attitude he can improve in other area's.
He was a mature age recruit and has not had the same experience of others of his age, but at the same time he probably has not had as much wear and tear on his body.

I guess the point is, Jones may improve his disposals and go on to play into his old age ( 30s) .
It depends on him, the coaches, and luck with injuries.

On the other hand Raph Clarke is a similar age, and has a fair bit of experience under his hat. He dosn't seem to have the reflexes, and does not seem to be making much improvement on his weaknesses,

 

[The Punter]

As I have said on another thread, I think Jones' problems are mental. He didn't seem to miss many targets on Saturday for Casey.

 

[Fehring]

Who cares what Hutchy says, he is just a leach, rumour mongering journo who had no footy ability.

Yep. This whole thread was started as a result of comments by Hutchy. He's almost as useless as Trevor Grant.

Two things.
First, our under 22s are yet to prove themselves, but our 22-27 brigade is better than most clubs (form slump not withstanding).
Second, Adelaide hadn't had a rising star nomination in five years until this week but it hasn't held them back (choking in finals, on the other hand...). So, we don't need them to be stars at 19. Montagna wasn't a star at 19.

 

[ChrisFooty]

Geary should be in this week and play the rest of the season.