Conspiracy Theory There actually are people (State and non-State actors) who ARE brainwashing you, and most of you don't actually know it's happening.

[ferball]

MSN

Sound like anyone we know on here?

BlueE

More victims of the Russian psy-op. Ex 'health, wellness, crystals and world peace' advocates, now totally cooked by Russian misinformation and the algorithm.

Also known as 'the Pete Evans effect'.

Of course, the same people expressing the same views as Janes friends on here won't admit they're cooked (though I suspect they know on some level they've been manipulated and cooked).

You didnt connect the dots. The Russians connected them for you.

You're just a victim of a 100 year old US psy op tho.

What's the difference?

 

[Malifice]

You're just a victim of a 100 year old US psy op tho.

In what way?

Find me a single post where I champion the USA.

Like, from any of the 40,000 I've made in the 15 years I've been posting here.

 

[ferball]

In what way?

Find me a single post where I champion the USA.

Like, from any of the 40,000 I've made in the 15 years I've been posting here.

You don't have to champion the USA to be victim to a US psy op.

You think capitalism is the best way for the world to order its distribution of resources don't you?

 

[ferball]

Also Mal, why do you think this:

More victims of the Russian psy-op. Ex 'health, wellness, crystals and world peace' advocates, now totally cooked by Russian misinformation and the algorithm.
Also known as 'the Pete Evans effect'.
Of course, the same people expressing the same views as Janes friends on here won't admit they're cooked (though I suspect they know on some level they've been manipulated and cooked).
You didnt connect the dots. The Russians connected them for you.

is a Russian psy op?

This exact dynamic has been in play online since the late 90s. The far right recruits from conspiracy and new age types but it didn't start with the Russians. The far right in the US (ie the people behind the Q Anon psy op) have been at it since before the internet.

 

[ferball]

View attachment 1758980

It’s Hunter Biden’s actual laptop, containing emails that reveal his dissolute lifestyle as well as highly questionable business dealings which involved peddling his father’s influence for great sums of money. Joe being referred to as “the big guy”. Before the election the contents were suppressed by the media due to allegations by the FBI that it was a fake and “Russian disinformation”. After the election it was “Oh, actually it’s legit, soz”.

Read the book, it’s all been verified, but the Dems’ propaganda arm is still playing it down.

So what you're saying is that Hunter Biden isn't any different to Trump's kids and that the US political establishment is full of corrupt scum whatever party they hide in?

 

[Nothing]

You think capitalism is the best way for the world to order its distribution of resources don't you?

What is your preference for the distribution of resources?
Can you provide working examples of said system?

 

[ferball]

What is your preference for the distribution of resources?
Can you provide working examples of said system?

Not in this thread now. Maybe another day.

This thread doesn't need to go down that pathway. I'm just making the point that the way the world is run now, with massive accumulation of capital as an unquestioned truth about the best way to run the world is the result of over a century of the sort of brain washing that happens every day online.

Even the way you responded to my point is an example of this.

Humans have been around for 150, 000 thousand years and the accumulation of capital based on the control of standing armies paid with coin - ie modern capitalism - is only a few thousand years old and all its brought for most of us in that time is misery, destruction and a few nice distractions.

 

[Nothing]

Not in this thread now. Maybe another day.

This thread doesn't need to go down that pathway. I'm just making the point that the way the world is run now, with massive accumulation of capital as an unquestioned truth about the best way to run the world is the result of over a century of the sort of brain washing that happens every day online.

Even the way you responded to my point is an example of this.

Humans have been around for 150, 000 thousand years and the accumulation of capital based on the control of standing armies paid with coin - ie modern capitalism - is only a few thousand years old and all its brought for most of us in that time is misery, destruction and a few nice distractions.

So no.

 

[Malifice]

Also Mal, why do you think this:

More victims of the Russian psy-op. Ex 'health, wellness, crystals and world peace' advocates, now totally cooked by Russian misinformation and the algorithm.
Also known as 'the Pete Evans effect'.
Of course, the same people expressing the same views as Janes friends on here won't admit they're cooked (though I suspect they know on some level they've been manipulated and cooked).
You didnt connect the dots. The Russians connected them for you.

is a Russian psy op?

Because intelligence officials literally track where the disinformation narratives like the above is coming from. A Troll Farm in St Petersburg Russia.

The reason those wellness cookers are all now Trumpists and neo-fascist conspiracists is because they've been brainwashed by Russian disinformation narratives, amplified by social media algorithms, and promoted by grifters (like Pete Evans himself) online.

This is not just my opinion either. There is a wealth of evidence (overwhelming evidence) that this is the truth.

This exact dynamic has been in play online since the late 90s.

No, it has not.

The CIA (or any other American agency) has not been deliberately flooding the internet with disinformation campaigns via armies of bots and trolls, designed to cook people into being conspiracist nutjobs and antivaxxers since the 90's (indeed, if at all).

You think capitalism is the best way for the world to order its distribution of resources don't you?

Yes, I do. I also think Socialism (control of the means of production by the State) is the pathway to tyranny.

By 'best way' that doesnt make it perfect. There are flaws to capitalism, in particular unregulated capitalism (which I also oppose). It's just the best of a bad bunch of economic models and is the only one compatible with liberal political ideology (of which I am also an advocate for).

 

[ferball]

So no.

LOL

Can't you read?

Not in this thread now. Maybe another day.

This thread doesn't need to go down that pathway.

Before money everything operated on a basic level of debt. ie - I'll do this for you cos you need it and when I need something you help me out.

Its a much better way to distribute resources.

But that's the last I'm gonna say on it for this thread cos there's plenty of other places to bang on about that. Quote me in one of them threads if you really want to crap on about it.

 

[ferball]

Because intelligence officials literally track where the disinformation narratives like the above is coming from. A Troll Farm in St Petersburg Russia.

The reason those wellness cookers are all now Trumpists and neo-fascist conspiracists is because they've been brainwashed by Russian disinformation narratives, amplified by social media algorithms, and promoted by grifters (like Pete Evans himself) online.

This is not just my opinion either. There is a wealth of evidence (overwhelming evidence) that this is the truth.

So one bunch of spies reckon a whole bunch of crap comes from another bunch of spies... okay. BTW I'm not saying this s**t doesn't happen or the Russians don't do it but Cambridge Analytica was a British info, intel mercernery operation (for lack of a better term) not a Russian one and nothing they did would have mattered if Hillary Clinton or the Democratic party itself weren't mired in their own hubris.

Manafort is alleged to have handed over info to the Russians but don't forget he's been a US intelligence operative since the Angolan war. You're confusing Russian interference with a power struggle between US power blocs (for lack of a better term.)

No, it has not.

The CIA (or any other American agency) has not been deliberately flooding the internet with disinformation campaigns via armies of bots and trolls, designed to cook people into being conspiracist nutjobs and antivaxxers since the 90's (indeed, if at all).

Yes it has. Q Anon for a start. That's why hard right American military psy op specialists like Paul R Valley (allegedly retired, lol) push it so hard. Not cos it serves Russian interests but cos it serves the interests of the US far right.

But anyway ... back in the 00s the pentagon was using perception management online via troll bots and human operators. They developed the first perception management software capable of keeping track of multiple online accounts for propaganda purposes.

Yes, I do. I also think Socialism (control of the means of production by the State) is the pathway to tyranny.

There are many pathways to tyranny. But that's not the strict of time honoured pre 20th century definition of Socialism anyway. Its part of the propaganda I was talking about. The reason the only way you can concieve of socialism is as a pathway to tyranny is clearly a result of the same brainwashing processes. Medicare is socialism. so is a standing army under the control of a democratic government.

By 'best way' that doesnt make it perfect. There are flaws to capitalism, in particular unregulated capitalism (which I also oppose). It's just the best of a bad bunch of economic models and is the only one compatible with liberal political ideology (of which I am also an advocate for).

Some might say any regulation of capitalism is socialism.

You mentioned 4chan upthread as a lolita pr0n site. its just an unregulated info site. Anonymouys developed at 4chan and members of anonymous used their skills to bust child abusing creeps for years, along with all that other stuff they did. You're attempting to brainwash people into having a particular view of chans based on that, and I'm not saying you're doing it maliciously either. For all I know that's all you know about 4chan.


Anyway ... you're aware of the recording of Victoria Nuland discussing who will be installed in Ukraine after Maidan with Geoffrey Pratt ... yeah? Its a private conversation intercepted and then published by Russian intelligence services that shows a much higher level of election interference than anything alleged to have happened with Putin's chef's troll farms.

How do you categorise that little bit of information?

 

[ferball]

BTW Valley was also a big pusher of the Birther stuff around the time the Koch brothers in the US used the Tea party movement to capture the US house and basically undercut any spending of public US money on anything the Obomber wanted to do to improve the lives of poor Americans.

He has a history of interfering in US elections.

 

[rank and file]

Long read by BigFooty standards,got everything covered.
Needs a theme song or a sound track.
Climate Paranoia

 

[Malifice]

So one bunch of spies reckon a whole bunch of crap comes from another bunch of spies... okay.

Its not just spies, its also the social media companies themselves saying it. There is overwhelming evidence of Russian disinformation campaigns, specifically designed to use social media algorithms to do things from influence elections, sow discord in the USA, and cook people.

Yes it has. Q Anon for a start.

Qanon is not coming from the CIA mate. It comes from Ron Watkins and his father (initially) who own the site, and used it as a means of grifting and trolling.

Since then, its been amplified by other grifters, social media algorithims and the Russians.

The CIA want to stop it, because it's a massive domestic terror threat now.

There are many pathways to tyranny. But that's not the strict of time honoured pre 20th century definition of Socialism anyway.

Thats the definition of socialism. Literally, look it up right now, and read some Marx.

The reason the only way you can concieve of socialism is as a pathway to tyranny is clearly a result of the same brainwashing processes.

No its not. It's from history. Literally every single time the government seized control of the means of production (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Kims, Castro etc) it's led to a despotic dictatorship.

It's something liberals (Mill, Smith, Dawkins, Hobbes, Locke) etc were warning everyone about for ages. Once the government controls everything, and owns everything, they control everything and own everything.

Medicare is socialism. so is a standing army under the control of a democratic government.

No, neither thing is socialism.

Socialism is control of the means of production by the State (as opposed to it being in private hands). Medicare is socialized medicine (specifically) but it doesnt make Australia a socialist State (we're not, we have a free market, based on capital).

You're conflating 'Socialism' with 'Social liberalism'. They're similar in some respects, but wildly different in many others.

Some might say any regulation of capitalism is socialism.

They would be wrong. Even Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations advocated strongly FOR government regulation of the market.

No one has ever claimed that the market should be outside the scope of Government to regulate or legislate for. That's not how liberalism works.

You mentioned 4chan upthread as a lolita pr0n site.

Erm yeah. It's literally full of lolita pr0n.

If I was a 'deep state Q clearance spy looking to reveal a secret cabal of paedos' the last place I'd be looking to do it would be on an imageboard full of paedos posting paedo s**t.

 

[ferball]

Its not just spies, its also the social media companies themselves saying it. There is overwhelming evidence of Russian disinformation campaigns, specifically designed to use social media algorithms to do things from influence elections, sow discord in the USA, and cook people.

From what i can see the revolving door between Wall St and the US government is minrrored by a similar revolving door between US intelligence and companies like Meta and Google. Meta has a "former" CIA section leader in charge of its "election integrity" policy and enforcement arm for example.

Qanon is not coming from the CIA mate. It comes from Ron Watkins and his father (initially) who own the site, and used it as a means of grifting and trolling.

Doesn't matter who started it, its who then moves in to take advantage of it. That's why for me Valley is such a red flag.

Since then, its been amplified by other grifters, social media algorithims and the Russians.

Other "Grifters" they're not all chasing a cheap buck. There is definitely a right wing movement in the US that wants to change the way the US society functions now and it promotes people like Trump, ideas like Q-Anon, etc etc. To me it seems there are two sides fighting for dominance. Think of it as the Nazis vs the Wokies if you want

The CIA want to stop it, because it's a massive domestic terror threat now.

Some elements in the US intelligence/police establishment are happy to enable terrorism. You think that whole Jan 6th stuff happened in a bubble just because people listened to trump. Its not the Russians that want to soiw dischord. Its elements in the US. I'm sure the Russians are happy to go along and I'm sure those elements are happy to use their influence for now but that's not the same as saying the Russians are masterminding it all to "sow dischord". That's an incredibly simplistic way to view something as complicated as US society.

I've heard it claimed that Russian propaganda is responsible for the people in East Palestine being upset that their entire town was poisoned by capitalism and that there really is nothing wrong with the soil, air and water there now its been "cleaned". You're not one of those people are you?

Thats the definition of socialism. Literally, look it up right now, and read some Marx.

Socialism is a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems[1] which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production,[2][3][4] as opposed to private ownership.[5][6][4] As a term, it describes the economic, political, and social theories and movements associated with the implementation of such systems.[7] Social ownership can be public, community, collective, cooperative,[8][9][10] or employee.[11][12] While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[13] social ownership is the one common element,[6][14] and is considered left-wing.[15] Different types of socialism vary based on the role of markets and planning in resource allocation, on the structure of management in organizations, and from below or from above approaches, with some socialists favouring a party, state, or technocratic-driven approach. Socialists disagree on whether government, particularly existing government, is the correct vehicle for change.[16][17]

First paragraph of the wikipedia page on socialism. Can you see all the stuff you ignored because you've been brainwashed into thinking socialism is a form of authoritarian state control?

No its not. It's from history. Literally every single time the government seized control of the means of production (Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, the Kims, Castro etc) it's led to a despotic dictatorship.

Its no different to state/nations governments and land being seized by nations like the US or former European powers to impose capitalism on those states for the benefit of the a few powerful people in the US or those former Euro powers and to a certain extent a bunch of modern share holders.

It's something liberals (Mill, Smith, Dawkins, Hobbes, Locke) etc were warning everyone about for ages. Once the government controls everything, and owns everything, they control everything and own everything.

Yes. The state is essentially an evil vampire that promises so much and feeds off its people. The "coldest of cold monsters" as someone once said. This was a problem alot of cookers had with covid responses - that those responses gave too much power to the state.

No, neither thing is socialism.

Socialism is control of the means of production by the State (as opposed to it being in private hands). Medicare is socialized medicine (specifically) but it doesnt make Australia a socialist State (we're not, we have a free market, based on capital).

We'll have to disagree about that. Socialism didn't start with Marx. Nothing wanted other examples of how systems of distribution could work. The Diggers led by Winstanley in the UK three or four hundred years ago are an example of non state socialism for example. Of course they were suppressed by a tyrannical government because those people were no longer units of economic production under the control of the state. That's an example of non state socialism.

You're conflating 'Socialism' with 'Social liberalism'. They're similar in some respects, but wildly different in many others.

They would be wrong. Even Adam Smith in the Wealth of Nations advocated strongly FOR government regulation of the market.

Adam Smith wasn't necessarily right tho. His three laws of economics aren't even particularly accurate

Erm yeah. It's literally full of lolita pr0n.

If I was a 'deep state Q clearance spy looking to reveal a secret cabal of paedos' the last place I'd be looking to do it would be on an imageboard full of paedos posting paedo s**t.

8chan/8kun isn't 4chan. I don't know iof 4chan even exists anymore. But yes that site (8kun) was started/owned by the Jeff watkins, who got into IT because he was a pornographer.

Frankly the idea that a state actor in intelligence would be opposed to child sex etc is ludicrous. All intelligence agencies use that sort of thing for blackmail purposes. That is what the whole Maxwell/Epstein blackmail op was about for example.

 

[bourbons]

Yes it has. Q Anon for a start.

Q was just a few 4chan trolls whose larp morphed into something they weren't quite prepared for, then at some point it was given or sold to Jim/Ron Watkins.

Not confirmed of course but I think there's enough circumstantial elements around that this is far and away the most likely scenario.

Anyway ... you're aware of the recording of Victoria Nuland discussing who will be installed in Ukraine after Maidan with Geoffrey Pratt ... yeah? Its a private conversation intercepted and then published by Russian intelligence services that shows a much higher level of election interference than anything alleged to have happened with Putin's chef's troll farms.

How do you categorise that little bit of information?

Discussing who they would prefer be installed. An election still happened, people voted.

 

[ferball]

Q was just a few 4chan trolls whose larp morphed into something they weren't quite prepared for, then at some point it was given or sold to Jim/Ron Watkins.

Not confirmed of course but I think there's enough circumstantial elements around that this is far and away the most likely scenario.


Discussing who they would prefer be installed. An election still happened, people voted.

Are you seriously saying they didn't interfere in the process to at least as much of a level as Russia in the US?

After all an election was held in 2016 in the US. People still voted.

 

[bourbons]

Are you seriously saying they didn't interfere in the process to at least as much of a level as Russia in the US?

After all an election was held in 2016 in the US. People still voted.

And the 2016 US election result is completely legitimate.

 

[ferball]

And the 2016 US election result is completely legitimate.

I'm sorry?

Are you saying it isn't?

 

[bourbons]

I'm sorry?

Are you saying it isn't?

Errr no? I thought you were implying it wasn't? ("After all an election was held in 2016 in the US. People still voted.")

 

[owen87]

Before money everything operated on a basic level of debt. ie - I'll do this for you cos you need it and when I need something you help me out.

Its a much better way to distribute resources.

This misses a significant level of context around large groups of people.

 

[ferball]

Errr no? I thought you were implying it wasn't? ("After all an election was held in 2016 in the US. People still voted.")

Okay cool. I think election fraud in the US is rampant. As is voter suppression etc etc. But the presidential elections are probably the least sus. That's why they have the electoral college - to moderate the will of the people. Also .... the 2000 election probably wasn't legit given the result came down to a few hundred wrongly counted votes in Florida (and the college.)

But that's kind of my point.

Governments interfere with other governments all the time. None of this so called election interference holds a candle to what happened in Chile 50 years ago either. Anyway....

Its almost taboo to question anything about the situation in Ukraine over the last 15 years now. How much of this is a result of the sort of brainwashing this thread is trying to point out? Have you seen this?:

[2208.07038] #IStandWithPutin versus #IStandWithUkraine: The interaction of bots and humans in discussion of the Russia/Ukraine war

arxiv.org

The 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine emphasises the role social media plays in modern-day warfare, with conflict occurring in both the physical and information environments. There is a large body of work on identifying malicious cyber-activity, but less focusing on the effect this activity has on the overall conversation, especially with regards to the Russia/Ukraine Conflict. Here, we employ a variety of techniques including information theoretic measures, sentiment and linguistic analysis, and time series techniques to understand how bot activity influences wider online discourse. By aggregating account groups we find significant information flows from bot-like accounts to non-bot accounts with behaviour differing between sides. Pro-Russian non-bot accounts are most influential overall, with information flows to a variety of other account groups. No significant outward flows exist from pro-Ukrainian non-bot accounts, with significant flows from pro-Ukrainian bot accounts into pro-Ukrainian non-bot accounts. We find that bot activity drives an increase in conversations surrounding angst (with p = 2.450 x 1e-4) as well as those surrounding work/governance (with p = 3.803 x 1e-18). Bot activity also shows a significant relationship with non-bot sentiment (with p = 3.76 x 1e-4), where we find the relationship holds in both directions. This work extends and combines existing techniques to quantify how bots are influencing people in the online conversation around the Russia/Ukraine invasion. It opens up avenues for researchers to understand quantitatively how these malicious campaigns operate, and what makes them impactful.

It isn't as simple as "Russian troll farms are brainwashing people."

I don't want to make this about the war in Ukraine, or socialism vs capitalism for that matter.

I think what Mal is pointing out is very important but I don't think its a one way flow from Russia or Prigozhin's IT warfare setup.

This stuff is used to influence opinion on everything from climate change or CSG to what products people purchase, and the same techniques are applied across the board.

 

[Malifice]

From what i can see the revolving door between Wall St and the US government is minrrored by a similar revolving door between US intelligence and companies like Meta and Google. Meta has a "former" CIA section leader in charge of its "election integrity" policy and enforcement arm for example.

The reason Meta have a former CIA cybersecurity person in its election integrity section, is because that person has knowledge of what the Russian disinfo campaign is, how to spot it, who the actors are, and how to try and reduce its impact.

Meta of course dont want to totally restrict the disinfo campaign, because it's good for Meta (it encourages engagement on the site).

Other "Grifters" they're not all chasing a cheap buck. There is definitely a right wing movement in the US that wants to change the way the US society functions now and it promotes people like Trump, ideas like Q-Anon, etc etc. To me it seems there are two sides fighting for dominance. Think of it as the Nazis vs the Wokies if you want

The situation in the USA (armed right wing paramilitary groups, who all believe 'bankers are trying to impose socialism and replace the white race' vs socialists and ANTFIA having armed battles on the streets) directly mirrors the fall of the Weimar Republic in Germany.

Jan 6th was their Beer Hall Putsch.

You're watching history repeat, and its in a large part due to the disinformation campaign being promoted by the Russians.

Some elements in the US intelligence/police establishment are happy to enable terrorism. You think that whole Jan 6th stuff happened in a bubble just because people listened to trump.

No, I think the Jan 6th stuff happened because Trump was more than willing to enable and push the Russian Disinfo (which seeks to favor his prospects, and undermine the Democrats) at the cost of his own Republic.

It was caused by a lot of people getting cooked by social media disinformation (same as anti-vaxxers) into beleiving in conspiracies and far right wing bullshit. The discord was then amplified further by the Russians (via an army of bots, posting as both ANTIFA types, and Right wing types) spreading disinformation, and leading to folks being radicalized.

Trump then seized on this phenomenon, for his own benefit.

Its not the Russians that want to soiw dischord.

Yes it is. You're a fool if you cant see it.

The first method of Russian interference used the Internet Research Agency (IRA), a Kremlin-linked troll farm, to wage "a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton".[41] The Internet Research Agency also sought to "provoke and amplify political and social discord in the United States".​

​

Russian use of social media to disseminate propaganda content was very broad. Facebook and Twitter were used, but also Reddit, Tumblr, Pinterest, Medium, YouTube, Vine, and Google+ (among other sites). Instagram was by far the most used platform, and one that largely remained out of the public eye until late 2018.[47][48] The Mueller report lists IRA-created groups on Facebook including "purported conservative groups" (e.g. 'Tea Party News'), "purported Black social justice groups" (e.g. 'Blacktivist'), "LGBTQ groups" ('LGBT United'), and "religious groups" ('United Muslims of America').[45] The IRA Twitter accounts included @TEN_GOP (claiming to be related to the Tennessee Republican Party), @jenn_abrams and @Pamela_Moore13; both claimed to be Trump supporters and both had 70,000 followers.[49]​

​

Several Trump campaign members (Donald J. Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale and Michael T. Flynn) linked or reposted material from the IRA's @TEN_GOP Twitter account listed above. Other people who responded to IRA social media accounts include Michael McFaul, Sean Hannity, Roger Stone and Michael Flynn Jr.[50]​

​

Advertisements bought by Russian operatives for the Facebook social media site are estimated to have reached 10 million users. But many more Facebook users were contacted by accounts created by Russian actors. 470 Facebook accounts are known to have been created by Russians during the 2016 campaign. Of those accounts six generated content that was shared at least 340 million times, according to research done by Jonathan Albright, research director for Columbia University's Tow Center for Digital Journalism.[51] The most strident Internet promoters of Trump were paid Russian propagandists/trolls, who were estimated by The Guardian to number several thousand.[52] (By 2017 the U.S. news media was focusing on the Russian operations on Facebook and Twitter and Russian operatives moved on to Instagram.)[48] The Mueller Report found the IRA spent $100,000 for more than 3,500 Facebook advertisements from June 2015 to May 2017,[53] which included anti-Clinton and pro-Trump advertisements.[45] In comparison, Clinton and Trump campaigns spent $81 million on Facebook ads.[54][55]​

​

Fabricated articles and disinformation[56] were spread from Russian government-controlled outlets, RT and Sputnik to be popularized on pro-Russian accounts on Twitter and other social media.[56] Researchers have compared Russian tactics during the 2016 U.S. election to the "active measures" of the Soviet Union during the Cold War,[56] but made easier by the use of social media.[56][57]​

​

Monitoring 7,000 pro-Trump social media accounts over a 2+1⁄2-year period, researchers J. M. Berger, Andrew Weisburd and Clint Watts[58] found the accounts denigrated critics of Russian activities in Syria and propagated falsehoods about Clinton's health.[59] Watts found Russian propaganda to be aimed at fomenting "dissent or conspiracies against the U.S. government and its institutions",[60] and by autumn of 2016 amplifying attacks on Clinton and support for Trump, via social media, Internet trolls, botnets, and websites.[56]​

​

Monitoring news on Twitter directed at one state (Michigan) prior to the election, Philip N. Howard found about half of it fabricated or untrue; the other half came from real news sources.[61] In continued analysis after the election, Howard and other researchers found the most prominent methods of misinformation were ostensibly "organic posting, not advertisements", and influence operation activity increased after the 2016 and was not limited to the election.[62]​

​

Facebook later admitted that about 126 million Americans may have seen posts published by Russia-based operatives.[63][64][65]​

​

According to an analysis by BuzzFeed News, the "20 top-performing false election stories from hoax sites and hyperpartisan blogs generated 8,711,000 shares, reactions, and comments on Facebook."[68] In September 2017, Facebook told congressional investigators it had discovered that hundreds of fake accounts linked to a Russian troll farm had bought $100,000 in advertisements targeting the 2016 U.S. election audience.[64] The ads, which ran between June 2015 and May 2017, primarily focused on divisive social issues; roughly 25% were geographically targeted.[69][70] Facebook has also turned over information about the Russian-related ad buys to Special Counsel Robert Mueller.[71] Approximately 3,000 adverts were involved, and these were viewed by between four and five million Facebook users prior to the election.[72] On November 1, 2017, the House Intelligence Committee released a sample of Facebook ads and pages that had been financially linked to the Internet Research Agency.[73] A 2019 analysis by The Washington Post's "Outlook" reviewed a number of troll accounts active in 2016 and 2018, and found that many resembled organic users. Rather than wholly negative and obvious, many confirmed troll accounts deployed humor and were "astute in exploiting questions of culture and identity and are frequently among the first to push new divisive conversations", some of which moved quickly to mainstream print media.​

Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

Literally billions of likes, shares and interactions. Just the six accounts (of which there were thousands) generated over 350 million interactions alone. Hundreds of millions of people exposed. Many of them radicalized into believing the Russian narrative, or into being full blown Qanon/ Trump/ Antivaxx/ Far Right wing/ Sovereign Citizen/ Conspiracist radicals.

Many of whom then marched on the capital on the 6th of Jan.

Just as the Russians wanted them to do.

Socialism is a political philosophy and movement encompassing a wide range of economic and social systems[1] which are characterised by social ownership of the means of production,[2][3][4] as opposed to private ownership.[5][6][4] As a term, it describes the economic, political, and social theories and movements associated with the implementation of such systems.[7] Social ownership can be public, community, collective, cooperative,[8][9][10] or employee.[11][12] While no single definition encapsulates the many types of socialism,[13] social ownership is the one common element,[6][14] and is considered left-wing.[15] Different types of socialism vary based on the role of markets and planning in resource allocation, on the structure of management in organizations, and from below or from above approaches, with some socialists favouring a party, state, or technocratic-driven approach. Socialists disagree on whether government, particularly existing government, is the correct vehicle for change.[16][17]

Exactly my point.

Socialism is characterized by control of the means of production by the State (social control of the means of production) as opposed to private control of the means of production. It comes in many forms (National Socialism, Marxism, full blown Communism, Maoism etc) some of which might even enable some limited private ownership or control over the means of production.

If the State control and own everything, then they control and own everything. A tyranny is inevitable.

The means of production should remain in private hands, not in the hands of the State. The State has no business compelling me (via the Law-making powers of the State), where or how or even if I can work, or what I do, on penalty of imprisonment or being shipped off to the gulags or to concentration camps or even the killing fields.

Literally every single time the State has taken control of the means of production, a regime of terror has followed. Those powers are used to absolutely control everything in peoples lives from where they live, what they do for work, how much they earn, and so forth. To maintain that level of control, those same Socialist States have extensively controlled the media, the right of its citizens to freely travel overseas (or indeed move anywhere), their education and all spheres of private life.

I'm a leftie, but I am no socialist. It's one of those 'great in theory' ideas, that in practice creates a tyranny of absolute proportions.

A regulated free market economy, overseen by a liberal democratic State, is the best way forward that we currently have. That's been proven time, and time and time again.

If you disagree, feel free to emigrate to Cuba or North Korea, but it's a topic for a different thread, not this one.

 

[ferball]

This misses a significant level of context around large groups of people.

Before money large groups of people didn't function the way they did afterward.

 

[ferball]

The reason Meta have a former CIA cybersecurity person in its election integrity section, is because that person has knowledge of what the Russian disinfo campaign is, how to spot it, who the actors are, and how to try and reduce its impact.

Meta of course dont want to totally restrict the disinfo campaign, because it's good for Meta (it encourages engagement on the site).


The situation in the USA (armed right wing paramilitary groups, who all believe 'bankers are trying to impose socialism and replace the white race' vs socialists and ANTFIA having armed battles on the streets) directly mirrors the fall of the Weimar Republic in Germany.

Jan 6th was their Beer Hall Putsch.

You're watching history repeat, and its in a large part due to the disinformation campaign being promoted by the Russians.


No, I think the Jan 6th stuff happened because Trump was more than willing to enable and push the Russian Disinfo (which seeks to favor his prospects, and undermine the Democrats) at the cost of his own Republic.

It was caused by a lot of people getting cooked by social media disinformation (same as anti-vaxxers) into beleiving in conspiracies and far right wing bullshit. The discord was then amplified further by the Russians (via an army of bots, posting as both ANTIFA types, and Right wing types) spreading disinformation, and leading to folks being radicalized.

Trump then seized on this phenomenon, for his own benefit.


Yes it is. You're a fool if you cant see it.

The first method of Russian interference used the Internet Research Agency (IRA), a Kremlin-linked troll farm, to wage "a social media campaign that favored presidential candidate Donald J. Trump and disparaged presidential candidate Hillary Clinton".[41] The Internet Research Agency also sought to "provoke and amplify political and social discord in the United States".​

​

Russian use of social media to disseminate propaganda content was very broad. Facebook and Twitter were used, but also Reddit, Tumblr, Pinterest, Medium, YouTube, Vine, and Google+ (among other sites). Instagram was by far the most used platform, and one that largely remained out of the public eye until late 2018.[47][48] The Mueller report lists IRA-created groups on Facebook including "purported conservative groups" (e.g. 'Tea Party News'), "purported Black social justice groups" (e.g. 'Blacktivist'), "LGBTQ groups" ('LGBT United'), and "religious groups" ('United Muslims of America').[45] The IRA Twitter accounts included @TEN_GOP (claiming to be related to the Tennessee Republican Party), @jenn_abrams and @Pamela_Moore13; both claimed to be Trump supporters and both had 70,000 followers.[49]​

​

Several Trump campaign members (Donald J. Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Kellyanne Conway, Brad Parscale and Michael T. Flynn) linked or reposted material from the IRA's @TEN_GOP Twitter account listed above. Other people who responded to IRA social media accounts include Michael McFaul, Sean Hannity, Roger Stone and Michael Flynn Jr.[50]​

​

Advertisements bought by Russian operatives for the Facebook social media site are estimated to have reached 10 million users. But many more Facebook users were contacted by accounts created by Russian actors. 470 Facebook accounts are known to have been created by Russians during the 2016 campaign. Of those accounts six generated content that was shared at least 340 million times, according to research done by Jonathan Albright, research director for Columbia University's Tow Center for Digital Journalism.[51] The most strident Internet promoters of Trump were paid Russian propagandists/trolls, who were estimated by The Guardian to number several thousand.[52] (By 2017 the U.S. news media was focusing on the Russian operations on Facebook and Twitter and Russian operatives moved on to Instagram.)[48] The Mueller Report found the IRA spent $100,000 for more than 3,500 Facebook advertisements from June 2015 to May 2017,[53] which included anti-Clinton and pro-Trump advertisements.[45] In comparison, Clinton and Trump campaigns spent $81 million on Facebook ads.[54][55]​

​

Fabricated articles and disinformation[56] were spread from Russian government-controlled outlets, RT and Sputnik to be popularized on pro-Russian accounts on Twitter and other social media.[56] Researchers have compared Russian tactics during the 2016 U.S. election to the "active measures" of the Soviet Union during the Cold War,[56] but made easier by the use of social media.[56][57]​

​

Monitoring 7,000 pro-Trump social media accounts over a 2+1⁄2-year period, researchers J. M. Berger, Andrew Weisburd and Clint Watts[58] found the accounts denigrated critics of Russian activities in Syria and propagated falsehoods about Clinton's health.[59] Watts found Russian propaganda to be aimed at fomenting "dissent or conspiracies against the U.S. government and its institutions",[60] and by autumn of 2016 amplifying attacks on Clinton and support for Trump, via social media, Internet trolls, botnets, and websites.[56]​

​

Monitoring news on Twitter directed at one state (Michigan) prior to the election, Philip N. Howard found about half of it fabricated or untrue; the other half came from real news sources.[61] In continued analysis after the election, Howard and other researchers found the most prominent methods of misinformation were ostensibly "organic posting, not advertisements", and influence operation activity increased after the 2016 and was not limited to the election.[62]​

​

Facebook later admitted that about 126 million Americans may have seen posts published by Russia-based operatives.[63][64][65]​

​

According to an analysis by BuzzFeed News, the "20 top-performing false election stories from hoax sites and hyperpartisan blogs generated 8,711,000 shares, reactions, and comments on Facebook."[68] In September 2017, Facebook told congressional investigators it had discovered that hundreds of fake accounts linked to a Russian troll farm had bought $100,000 in advertisements targeting the 2016 U.S. election audience.[64] The ads, which ran between June 2015 and May 2017, primarily focused on divisive social issues; roughly 25% were geographically targeted.[69][70] Facebook has also turned over information about the Russian-related ad buys to Special Counsel Robert Mueller.[71] Approximately 3,000 adverts were involved, and these were viewed by between four and five million Facebook users prior to the election.[72] On November 1, 2017, the House Intelligence Committee released a sample of Facebook ads and pages that had been financially linked to the Internet Research Agency.[73] A 2019 analysis by The Washington Post's "Outlook" reviewed a number of troll accounts active in 2016 and 2018, and found that many resembled organic users. Rather than wholly negative and obvious, many confirmed troll accounts deployed humor and were "astute in exploiting questions of culture and identity and are frequently among the first to push new divisive conversations", some of which moved quickly to mainstream print media.​

Russian interference in the 2016 United States elections - Wikipedia

Literally hundreds of millions of likes, shares and interactions. Hundreds of millions of people exposed. Many of them radicalized into believing the Russian narrative, or into being full blown Qanon/ Trump/ Antivaxx/ Far Right wing/ Sovereign Citizen/ Conspiracist radicals.

Many of whom marched on the capital on the 6th of Jan.



Exactly my point.

Socialism is characterized by control of the means of production by the State (social control of the means of production) as opposed to private control of the means of production. It comes in many forms (National Socialism, Marxism, full blown Communism, Maoism etc) some of which might even enable some limited private ownership or control over the means of production.

If the State control and own everything, then they control and own everything. A tyranny is inevitable.

The means of production should remain in private hands, not in the hands of the State. The State has no business compelling me (via the Law-making powers of the State), where or how or even if I can work, or what I do, on penalty of imprisonment or being shipped off to the gulags or to concentration camps or even the killing fields.

Literally every single time the State has taken control of the means of production, a regime of terror has followed. Those powers are used to absolutely control everything in peoples lives from where they live, what they do for work, how much they earn, and so forth. To maintain that level of control, those same Socialist States have extensively controlled the media, the right of its citizens to freely travel overseas (or indeed move anywhere), their education and all spheres of private life.

I'm a leftie, but I am no socialist. It's one of those great in theory ideas, that in practice creates a tyranny of absolute proportions.

A regulated free market economy, overseen by a liberal democratic State, is the best way forward that we currently have. That's been proven time, and time and time again.

If you disagree, feel free to emigrate to Cuba or North Korea, but it's a topic for a different thread, not this one.

You're as cooked as the people you're trying to reach with this thread.