This Board's Poor Judgement

[sr36]

There has been a bit of trend over the last few years of the general consensus of young or fringe players being way too harsh.

Toovey - Not good enough. Can't even run without falling over.
Macaffer - Vanilla. Nothing going for him
L. Brown - Complete spud

Buckley and Macarthy are looking like they could very easily fall into the same category of written off way too early. Thank god MM "plays favourites."

 

[PieBeast]

And the point of this thread is?

 

[Zahki]

People make calls. With the benefit of hindsight we can see which calls were right and which calls were wrong. The obvious counterpoints are Stanley and Cook, not every player improves, these few have which is great but you can only call 'em as you see 'em.

 

[mattys123]

Ok Mr Perfect, sorry on behalf of everyone here for not being 100% perfect like you.

 

[Pie eyed]

There has been a bit of trend over the last few years of the general consensus of young or fringe players being way too harsh.

Toovey - Not good enough. Can't even run without falling over.
Macaffer - Vanilla. Nothing going for him
L. Brown - Complete spud

Buckley and Macarthy are looking like they could very easily fall into the same category of written off way too early. Thank god MM "plays favourites."

HUH?

Where you bin?

Maxwell....he's our whippin' boy.

We're talking a small minority (who are fully entitled to that opinion mind you.)

 

[sr36]

HUH?

Where you bin?

Maxwell....he's our whippin' boy.

We're talking a small minority (who are fully entitled to that opinion mind you.)

Should have included Johnson as well, and of course Malthouse.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

There has been a bit of trend over the last few years of the general consensus of young or fringe players being way too harsh.

Toovey - Not good enough. Can't even run without falling over.
Macaffer - Vanilla. Nothing going for him
L. Brown - Complete spud

Buckley and Macarthy are looking like they could very easily fall into the same category of written off way too early. Thank god MM "plays favourites."

Dont you think you have written them on a little too early?

McCarthy is still not up to AFL standard and will be dropped in a few weeks. Not sure why you would be gloating after todays game. I thought he competed well but made a few bad errors and he is not quick enough nor creative enough to play small forward. He is definitely not going to push out one of our other midfielders.

Buckley on the other hand has been quite solid all year. He is a good ordinary player who will be competing for the 20-24th player on the list, He has a great boot on him and as he gets more comfortable at this level he may become more than that.

Toovey is still questionable when he has the football, but my god that boy has improved. His defensive ability has got to the point now that when the ball is kicked inside our defensive 50, im actually hoping Toovey is around to spoil. I was wrong about him, but I had been well and truly turned around by the start of last season.

Leigh Brown is a great competitor and Im so glad we picked him up. But I dont think any of us realized it would be as a 2nd ruckman/resting 3rd tall forward that he would do his damage. I didnt want Brown to take away a position that Cloke, Dawes, Anthony, Rusling, N Brown and Reid could perform so I was against him to begin with. But let's not go overstating our players abilities. Brown is a warrior who tackles brilliantly, but he does tend to give away a mountain of freekicks, and its not like he isnt 2 or 3 bad games away from being dropped this season.

I've always like what MaCaffer brings to the table. He has a touch of class and I'd love to see him back again this season. and all the other players in the side today I like and have always liked, including Cam Wood who I think did a very good job against 2 excellent ruckman. He may not ever get to Jolly's level, but I think he will play some good footy eventually.

 

[sr36]

Ok Mr Perfect, sorry on behalf of everyone here for not being 100% perfect like you.

I'm not claiming to be perfect. I've made a heap of crap calls over the years.

The current players I like watching succeed the most are probably Cloke and Thomas and I think that is partially because they have been so maligned by opposition supporters and I like those supporters to be proven wrong. I also like seeing knockers who barrack for Collingwood proven wrong, particularly when they are unknowledgable and speak garbage with extreme certainty.

 

[Ron]

There would be very few players who haven't copped it on this board at some point in their career, but that is no different to any other team. Every other board on BF would have similar threads to what we have.

 

[sr36]

Dont you think you have written them on a little too early?

McCarthy is still not up to AFL standard and will be dropped in a few weeks. Not sure why you would be gloating after todays game. I thought he competed well but made a few bad errors and he is not quick enough nor creative enough to play small forward. He is definitely not going to push out one of our other midfielders.

Buckley on the other hand has been quite solid all year. He is a good ordinary player who will be competing for the 20-24th player on the list, He has a great boot on him and as he gets more comfortable at this level he may become more than that.

Toovey is still questionable when he has the football, but my god that boy has improved. His defensive ability has got to the point now that when the ball is kicked inside our defensive 50, im actually hoping Toovey is around to spoil. I was wrong about him, but I had been well and truly turned around by the start of last season.

Leigh Brown is a great competitor and Im so glad we picked him up. But I dont think any of us realized it would be as a 2nd ruckman/resting 3rd tall forward that he would do his damage. I didnt want Brown to take away a position that Cloke, Dawes, Anthony, Rusling, N Brown and Reid could perform so I was against him to begin with. But let's not go overstating our players abilities. Brown is a warrior who tackles brilliantly, but he does tend to give away a mountain of freekicks, and its not like he isnt 2 or 3 bad games away from being dropped this season.

I've always like what MaCaffer brings to the table. He has a touch of class and I'd love to see him back again this season. and all the other players in the side today I like and have always liked, including Cam Wood who I think did a very good job against 2 excellent ruckman. He may not ever get to Jolly's level, but I think he will play some good footy eventually.

I'm not claiming any of them to be stars. Well actually I think that Toovey is. But with the others it seems pretty obvious that they are serviceable senior footballers.

 

[mdc]

There has been a bit of trend over the last few years of the general consensus of young or fringe players being way too harsh.

Toovey - Not good enough. Can't even run without falling over.
Macaffer - Vanilla. Nothing going for him
L. Brown - Complete spud

Buckley and Macarthy are looking like they could very easily fall into the same category of written off way too early. Thank god MM "plays favourites."

There has been an even bigger trend over the last few years of posts of righteous hindsight. E.g. Leigh Brown was a complete spud for the best part of 2009, but to his credit he got in better shape and became a smarter footballer in 2010. Those calling him a spud in 2009 were not wrong, nor were those praising him 2010. You can only evaluate players on form, not on blind optimism.

As for young players, if you look hard enough you'll find whoever you like being written off by somebody. If you look at the average opinion on these guys, the only ones the board has missed badly on are Maxwell (who I always liked) and Toovey (not so much). Maybe Macaffer too. Otherwise it's been pretty spot on, from Ryan Cook (a MM favourite*) to Sam Iles to Ben Reid and so on.

*Fwiw, I don't actually think MM has favourites, but he does have a favourite type - namely guys with a bit of pace who can get and carry the ball, regardless of kicking/decision-making/toughness. Thus the continual playing of Lonie's corpse late in his career, Ben Johnson circa 2008, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Matthew Lokan and so on.

 

[sr36]

There has been an even bigger trend over the last few years of posts of righteous hindsight. E.g. Leigh Brown was a complete spud for the best part of 2009, but to his credit he got in better shape and became a smarter footballer in 2010. Those calling him a spud in 2009 were not wrong, nor were those praising him 2010. You can only evaluate players on form, not on blind optimism.

As for young players, if you look hard enough you'll find whoever you like being written off by somebody. If you look at the average opinion on these guys, the only ones the board has missed badly on are Maxwell (who I always liked) and Toovey (not so much). Maybe Macaffer too. Otherwise it's been pretty spot on, from Ryan Cook (a MM favourite*) to Sam Iles to Ben Reid and so on.

*Fwiw, I don't actually think MM has favourites, but he does have a favourite type - namely guys with a bit of pace who can get and carry the ball, regardless of kicking/decision-making/toughness. Thus the continual playing of Lonie's corpse late in his career, Ben Johnson circa 2008, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Matthew Lokan and so on.

Thanks, you reminded me of Ben Reid, another one who was never going to make it.

 

[mdc]

Thanks, you reminded me of Ben Reid, another one who was never going to make it.

More revisionist history. Ben Reid was overwhelmingly tipped to make it by the majority of regular posters on this board.

 

[sr36]

More revisionist history. Ben Reid was overwhelmingly tipped to make it by the majority of regular posters on this board.

And it was tipped as early as last July.

 

[FAIRANDBALANCED]

There has been an even bigger trend over the last few years of posts of righteous hindsight. E.g. Leigh Brown was a complete spud for the best part of 2009, but to his credit he got in better shape and became a smarter footballer in 2010. Those calling him a spud in 2009 were not wrong, nor were those praising him 2010. You can only evaluate players on form, not on blind optimism.

As for young players, if you look hard enough you'll find whoever you like being written off by somebody. If you look at the average opinion on these guys, the only ones the board has missed badly on are Maxwell (who I always liked) and Toovey (not so much). Maybe Macaffer too. Otherwise it's been pretty spot on, from Ryan Cook (a MM favourite*) to Sam Iles to Ben Reid and so on.

*Fwiw, I don't actually think MM has favourites, but he does have a favourite type - namely guys with a bit of pace who can get and carry the ball, regardless of kicking/decision-making/toughness. Thus the continual playing of Lonie's corpse late in his career, Ben Johnson circa 2008, Simon Buckley, Ryan Cook, Matthew Lokan and so on.

Can't say I can remember reading a heap of your posts mdc, but I must say I agree with nearly everything you say....

but I do think Mick has his favorites and its more to do with the person than the type of player they are. I mean who would have predicted that an inconsistent small forward who goes missing in big games would be a Malthouse fav? Having said this Leon is playing brilliant footy at the moment and certainly deserves his place in the side. Im sure Malthouse himself admitted he has his favorties last year before he dropped Shane O'Bree.

 

[shawthing09]

With MDC and the rest here. I don't know what you are after or what you are trying to prove.

There a couple that a majority of the board have gotten wrong in Maxwell and Toovey but besides that it has either been around even or a vocal minority writing off a player, whilst the rest of the board defends said player.

Also as MDC has mentioned on older guys you can only talk about current form. L Brown is a great success story but there was also huge pockets of support for Stanley, Cook, Iles etc and guys like Corrie who were rightly written off. This isn't a fan page it's a discussion forum, occasionally players will be no good and people have every right to discuss that.

Reid, McCarthy, Macaffer, Ben Johnson, etc have all had a lot of support on this board.

 

[Somebody]

There has been a bit of trend over the last few years of the general consensus of young or fringe players being way too harsh.

Toovey - Not good enough. Can't even run without falling over.
Macaffer - Vanilla. Nothing going for him
L. Brown - Complete spud

Buckley and Macarthy are looking like they could very easily fall into the same category of written off way too early. Thank god MM "plays favourites."

It's definitley true that most keyboard footy punters have very little idea of what's involved in player development and how to tell which bad traits are not necessarily permanent.

Also it's the way they express their criticism - often criticism of young players is downright abusive and embarrassing (disgusting actually), no wonder some clubs advise rookies not to read these boards.

Another one who most will have forgotten was spitefully abused for a couple of years early in his career is one A Rocca. This is a good example because he was often pretty unco and unaware in the early days and took a while to adjust to AFL footy, but the keyboard "experts" were adamant that he was a total spud and would never make it. History won that argument.

 

[vjknight]

It's definitley true that most keyboard footy punters have very little idea of what's involved in player development and how to tell which bad traits are not necessarily permanent.

Also it's the way they express their criticism - often criticism of young players is downright abusive and embarrassing (disgusting actually), no wonder some clubs advise rookies not to read these boards.

Another one who most will have forgotten was spitefully abused for a couple of years early in his career is one A Rocca. This is a good example because he was often pretty unco and unaware in the early days and took a while to adjust to AFL footy, but the keyboard "experts" were adamant that he was a total spud and would never make it. History won that argument.

we all rate players for various reasons. both positively & negatively. both prematurely & belatedly. but we all have opinions.

of the current 22, cam wood is certainly the one copping most negatives, but not from all. the question is 'why those opinions?'
he is being compared to jolly, who proved his worth in the 2nd half of last year with neat tapwork beautifully supported by the midfield. then there was his wandering forward with great efficiency.
cam has played 50 games. lets be honest, very few good ruckman do well in their 1st 50 games. its games 150 & after they are generally remembered for. this year is the 1st time in a while he has been able to string together games. and just maybe his performance yesterday (i have not seen the game, working from others opinions) proves another opinion that ruckman need time, to get into a rhythm, and if they can avoid injury, become long term vital players. jolly has been doing this for several years. cam needs time, and is likely our best long term ruck option after jolly while we await the likes of ceglar to mature. but that could be a while. so in my opinion, wood it is.

just an opinion.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Toovey was pretty bad yesterday and I stand by my call on McCarthy.

2 cheap crumbing goals does not a player make.

McCarthy is simply the next incarnation of Jason Wild/Chris Egan/Richard Cole. A useless player that everyone bar Mick Malthouse seems to see isn't worth anything.

 

[vjknight]

..........and I stand by my call on McCarthy.

2 cheap crumbing goals does not a player make.

McCarthy is simply the next incarnation of Jason Wild/Chris Egan/Richard Cole. A useless player that everyone bar Mick Malthouse seems to see isn't worth anything.

not useless. more a number 25 on the list and at present capable of a role. but once the remaining best 22 return and/or fasolo/keeffe and others earn a spot and show they have more upside, then someone like mccarthy are sent back. if he's content to be that number 25, then so be it. if not, he demands a trade to a club with lesser facilities/culture/opportunities post playing.

his choice.

 

[Jesus Baulks]

Toovey was pretty bad yesterday and I stand by my call on McCarthy.

2 cheap crumbing goals does not a player make.

McCarthy is simply the next incarnation of Jason Wild/Chris Egan/Richard Cole. A useless player that everyone bar Mick Malthouse seems to see isn't worth anything.

Get on McCarthy for the brownlow people, Shpeshal Ed has written him off so you know he is a certainty to become a superstar now

 

[CLUBMEDhurst]

Dont you think you have written them on a little too early?

McCarthy is still not up to AFL standard and will be dropped in a few weeks. Not sure why you would be gloating after todays game. I thought he competed well but made a few bad errors and he is not quick enough nor creative enough to play small forward. He is definitely not going to push out one of our other midfielders.

Buckley on the other hand has been quite solid all year. He is a good ordinary player who will be competing for the 20-24th player on the list, He has a great boot on him and as he gets more comfortable at this level he may become more than that.

Toovey is still questionable when he has the football, but my god that boy has improved. His defensive ability has got to the point now that when the ball is kicked inside our defensive 50, im actually hoping Toovey is around to spoil. I was wrong about him, but I had been well and truly turned around by the start of last season.

Leigh Brown is a great competitor and Im so glad we picked him up. But I dont think any of us realized it would be as a 2nd ruckman/resting 3rd tall forward that he would do his damage. I didnt want Brown to take away a position that Cloke, Dawes, Anthony, Rusling, N Brown and Reid could perform so I was against him to begin with. But let's not go overstating our players abilities. Brown is a warrior who tackles brilliantly, but he does tend to give away a mountain of freekicks, and its not like he isnt 2 or 3 bad games away from being dropped this season.

I've always like what MaCaffer brings to the table. He has a touch of class and I'd love to see him back again this season. and all the other players in the side today I like and have always liked, including Cam Wood who I think did a very good job against 2 excellent ruckman. He may not ever get to Jolly's level, but I think he will play some good footy eventually.

Agree totally about McCarthy and Buckley. Think Tooves has improved his delivery of the football, rarely gets beaten in one-on-ones and was severely missed against the cats.

If anyone's been caned on these boards and by 'pies fans in general it's been Leon Davis, who's burnin' it up off the backline this year.

From what I've seen of Caff in the VFL this year, he's not been fit. Fit and firin', he's a key for us, misssin' his pressure ATM

 

[TradeDraft]

Most People thought Stanley would be a Fantastic Player for Collingwood

 

[Pie eyed]

Toovey was pretty bad yesterday and I stand by my call on McCarthy.

2 cheap crumbing goals does not a player make.

McCarthy is simply the next incarnation of Jason Wild/Chris Egan/Richard Cole. A useless player that everyone bar Mick Malthouse seems to see isn't worth anything.

I am currently doing some work on Parallel universe and alternate reality duality.
Can I use this statement as evidence?

 

[TheGreatGrundy]

Dick and Wood are the two players who have been most under fire recently. Dick has since been dropped and performed poorly in the VFL. People like me who criticised his selection and even suggested MM was 'playing favourites with him' have been vindicated.

As regards the other players you mentioned, it appears that many were wrong in judging their worth to the team. The people I have an issue with are those who still criticise players even when there appears to be little of which to be critical. Buckley is still criticised for his disposal even when he has the highest kicking efficiency of anyone in the team. He is still referred to in this thread as a good ordinary player, even though he kept Embley quiet for most of yesterday's game and seems highly regarded by the TV people who commentated on the game.

I actually don;t mind a bit of over the top criticism from time to time. The threads on this board were becoming a bit dull until we lost against Geelong, so it was kind of nice to have some fiery arguments over the worth of players in the wake of that loss.