This puts the various UK derbies in the shade.

[Still Crowing]

Originally posted by dyertribe
Jeez that is rough...

Like ManCity/Arse/Liverpool/The SSB fans making plane crash noises and spreading their arms like wings whenever they play ManYoo?

 

[Ray Nolan]

Originally posted by The Dutchman!
Aston Villa v Birmingham derbies are fun too.

Did anyone say Robbie Savage?

Since when did Robbie ever stir it up?

I wouldn't say Blues-Vile is fun for those of us involved, unless it's like last season when the Witton Wanderers got the thrashing they so richly deserved! I think this derby is probably the biggest city derby in England these days. It has a real nasty edge that the Liverpool, Manchester, Tyne-Wear & North London derbies seem to lack a bit at the moment (mainly because one team is far ahead of the other, whereas Blues/Vile is more evenly matched), plus the fact that we went so long without it adds to the spice and general mutual hatred.

 

[GeordieRoo]

Very good points Ray, I think the midlands derby might have it in English Football at the moment...just

Like you said, north-London and Tyne-Wear have been rather subdued of late because one team is so far ahaed of the other (although suporters of the behind teams would never admit it!!).

The point about waiting for it for so long is also a valid one. When Sunderland were first promoted the Tyne-Wear derbies were huge, as is the case in the midlands now and also with Southampton-Portsmouth.

You can never measure the strength of a rivalry by events on the pitch I don't think, especially in England where many of the players are foreigners or from other parts of England who haven't been brought up with the religious hatred of the opposition. The fans will always be up for it, and that's where the real rivalry is -
Just ask any of the fans!

 

[tribey]

Originally posted by Still Crowing
Like ManCity/Arse/Liverpool/The SSB fans making plane crash noises and spreading their arms like wings whenever they play ManYoo?

Whilst the Holocaust and a one-off plane crash are entirely different in their magnitude, yeah it is unpleasant.

 

[Still Crowing]

Ray, when are you back to the Stade de Hindmarsh for a United game?

 

[Shinboners]

Originally posted by Still Crowing
Like ManCity/Arse/Liverpool/The SSB fans making plane crash noises and spreading their arms like wings whenever they play ManYoo?

Liverpool fans stopped their Munich antics after the Hillsborough disaster.

United fans had the last word with our "Where's your famous Munich song?" chants making the scouse vermin squirm in their seats.

 

[Ray Nolan]

Originally posted by Still Crowing
Ray, when are you back to the Stade de Hindmarsh for a United game?

As it stands at the moment not 'til the South Melbourne game on the 6th of February! I may be back in Adelaide earlier than that (mid Januaryish) so i could be there for the Marconi game but I don't know yet. Still waiting for my 'travel orders'. Hopefully that February weekend though I should get to see both games, coming back to Geelong so I can see the Knights game as well.

Match days are bloody torture at the moment, wish I was there, I'm gutted to be missing out. But I couldn't tell my family I wasn't going to come and see 'em so I could stay home & watch Football! My Mum would've gone nuts!

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by JF_Bay_22_SCG

Sorry if I come across as if I have a bee in my bonnet. But frankly I do. Aside from Man U, Chelsea and Arsenal and possibly Newcastle on its day most English sides are totally overrated. Yet we have the media raving on 365 days a year about how good this match is, yadda. Then a Polish or Russian side beats a Pommie team and we hear this exaggerated shock "Cor blimey, we actually might not be as good as we think we are.!"

For excitement the Premier League is the go. But it does NOT warrant the tag of the best league in the World. Because many of the middle to lower sides play technically crap football.

But still, with the Sterling being so much stronger than the Euro, the Island will continue to draw top players across from the continent. Which only helps in changing the culture of the English game to one compatible to succeeding in Europe.

JF

Personally I don't think that our league is the best, a couple of years ago people here were claiming that when the Italian sides were having a rough time & I think people expected our sides to fill the void but we were very much put in our place by the emergence of the Spanish sides.

I don't think anyone really claims that we're the best league now, but there's not much in it between the big 3, I certainly wouldn't say that ours is a level below the Italian & Spanish leagues.

I disagree with your ascertion that our lower clubs are weaker, at the bottom of the table (taking into acount that we have 2 more sides than them)I think English sides are better than their Italian counterparts, as for the Spanish they have this interesting thing going on where different sides seem to be up there challenging with Real every season-Sociedad, Valencia, Deportivo, Celta Vigo ect, whilst the English league (like the Italian) has more of a closed shop feel to it at the top.

The thing is a lot of people who don't like English football or England in general get sniffy about our style of football & denigrate it & say it's not all it's cracked up to be, & they get jealous that's it's the most popular league in the world, the reasons for which are partly due to the allegiance a lot of people throuhgout the world have to English clubs & partly due to the excitement level.


As for a culture compatible to succeeding in Europe, I don't think we need more foreign players to do that, just for the clubs to improve their development of players.
All the top English clubs play a brisk, pass the ball on the floor style now, the long ball has well gone, despite people making generalisations.

In fact the current style of play that you see in most of the games between the top sides in the CL is a hybrid game, it's no more a European style or an Italain style than it is an English style.15 years ago there were noticable differences in style, the English sides played 4-4-2, pressed the opposition when they had the ball, played a quick tempo & put in lot of long balls & crosses, the Italians for example played 5 at the back with a sweeper, built slowly from the back, pulled 10 men behind the ball when not in possession & let the opposition build from the back, they played no long ball & weren't as reliant on crossing.

So what is modern day European football most similar to?After what Arrigo Sachi achieved at Milan, where he set his team up like an English one(especially when not in possession) with 4 defenders & 4 midfielders & playing a pressing game the world has cottoned onto it, sweepers are as dead as dodos, most sides play 4 defenders, the tempo is much quicker & teams press the opposition when not in possession.
Modern European football is much closer to the traditional English style than a mainland European style(except for the absence of the long ball), we all play pretty similarly, the Spanish & Englsih leagues are very similar.There are still differences which is good, but the similarities are much greater in number.

The ironic thing is that when we played our way in the late 70s/80s we dominated the Eurpean Cup, tecnically superior European sides coulnd't compete with the high tempo English game, so to say we need to further change our culture to succeed in Europe seems as fallacy to me.We need better players, that's the key.

The CL is being won by super rich clubs, that doesn't IMO have much to do with what country they're from but more about their ability to sign top class players.

Bayern, Milan, Real, Juve & Man U have the spending power that is beyond even reasonably large clubs sucha s Arsenal, the only people that can compete with these heavyweights of the CL are Inter & now Chelsea (& maybe Barca).

An interting situation has developed with the English, Spanish & Italian clubs , it's a bit like that game scissors, paper, stone-the English clubs seem to be beating the Italians, the Italians do well against the Spanish & the Spanish roll over the English.

The perfect example of this was the Real/Juve/Man U games in last seasons CL.

I'm not sure where the English league stands in a list of the top leagues but we're certainly not a long way behind the others as you seem to suggest.

 

[GoalsFrom50Out]

Inter wouldn't have much more money than Arsenal ...

 

[CDFCLad]

Brugge-Anderlecht are also very heated regional derbies. Have heard Sevilla against Real Betis has a few stray boulders flying at team buses etc etc.

JF [/B][/QUOTE]

Club Brugge v Anderlecht is a big one in Belgium, but for FC Brugge it is nothing compared to Club Brugge v Cercle Brugge. I lived in Brugge for a few months and this one is huge, although crowds are kept deliberately low (sub 20,000) by the authorities. They share the same ground too so it gets intense. A 10-0 win to Club in the early 90's followed by a 7-1 revenge win to Cercle 2 years later with a 5-5 draw the next year shows how unpredictable the game is too.

Cercle - traditionally Catholic club supported by the middle class of both Flemish and Walloons (Dutch and French) whereas Club are historically solely Flemish and working class. Main factor is now family ties rather than ethnic or class (sort of like Hibs v Hearts in Scotland which does have a sectarian element, but geography and family plays a bigger role nowadays)

The fact that FC Brugge refer to themselves simply as Brugge also gets Cercle fans mightily p*ssed off.