Analysis Thoughts on Promotion/Relegation model for the AFL

[koshari]

It is my opinion, that any sport without relegation rewards mediocrity.

yeah but realistically the team that gets the club back into the higher platform never gets to actually play at the new platform, any promoted club literally fields a rebuilt team the following year. if you actually like to follow the players on the list and see how they are going a relegation/promotion model doesnt provide this. same goes for demotion, all the good players get transfered to other top tier clubs on relegation.

 

[kaboom kid]

Radical idea? In AFL terms yes, but it's an idea I would like to at least see discussed. It is obvious as to why, but in summary, we have a terribly compromised draw with the 22 round season, which many have argued couldn't be fixed. We also have a large number of teams that have nothing to play for from even way before the bye, and as the season progresses the number of such teams will obviously increase.

Here is the model which I would use as an example, which may not be perfect, but worth discussion in my view. I would like to see two new teams in the competition, one being from Tasmania, and one other from either WA, SA or anywhere else - that's a separate topic, but for the benefit of this discussion I would call 19th team Tasmania, and 20th team - Team20 for the moment.

We then have Division A which has 10 teams, allowing for 18 game season with everyone playing each other twice. We would then have top 4 or 5 finals series and have two teams relegated to Div B each season (teams 9 and 10 obviously). To make things interesting, the team finishing 8th could have a play off against the side that finished 3rd in Division B at a neutral venue.

Draft wise, nothing much changes - we look at the entire pool of teams and treat them as 1-20, with pick 1 going to Team20 and so on. TV rights wouldn't be affected, as the overall number of games will be similar (I can't be bothered working it out exactly). Yes, the initial revenue will take a hit, as the AFL won't have their standard Collingwood Carlton or Richmond Essendon type blockbusters every year, but in time this can be offset by other advantages, such as better TV deals etc.

But the advantages are huge. For starters, we would finally get a fair competition, instead of the Mickey Mouse one we have today. The game's integrity will be the BIG winner. Secondly, we would have very few games with nothing to play for, if any in the top division, and plenty of excitement in the second division. The only issue would be how to come up with incentives to the teams that are sitting down the bottom of Division B. There are always ways to do it. Come up with a draft lottery for pick 1 for starters.

I think this is ultimately the way to go.

Love it but can't see it happening...I would love to see it extend to country sides as well..... imagine the romance of a Warnambool or Ballarat making it into the top flight....

 

[the flying ham]

Sounds like you are talking about your own club in that regard.

I would pose this question: Why should a team who is struggling for on field results over a number of years retain a place in a National Comp if it means compromising competitiveness and fixture?

You still going on this pal? Let it go. Terrible terrible idea

 

[kaboom kid]

Carlton would be forever going up and down in an unmanipulated system. That would be hilarious.

Yo yo team....

 

[Passmore]

It's not banishing a team, it is simply having two leagues with the idea of both leagues being fairer and more competitive making for better viewing and fan experience.

“fan experience“.....where do these terms come from? Part of being a supporter is going to watch your team for better or worse.

 

[Snake_Baker]

“fan experience“.....where do these terms come from?

The marketing w***ers who have hijacked our sport.

See..........."in this day and age"............."out of date thinking"

 

[CURVE]

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if the AFL moves towards an NFL style Conference/Division system in the next 10-15 years, especially if the league is increased to 20, 22 or 24 clubs. I don't think that would be enough clubs for a Promotion/Relegation system to work.

 

[Dodecahedron]

The AFL would have a hissy fit if the “big 4” finished at the bottom and got relegated. The winner of the TV rights would make secret calls; there would be late night meetings; the AFL would then announce that the relegation system was merely a trial and there’s ‘nothing to see here’ and change it back....yada yada yada.

 

[HongKongRoo]

If we don't do relegation then we need to fix the fixture. I suggest the following.
Home and away.
Each side plays each other once, alternating year by year for home and away.
After 17 Rounds the ladder positions determine a top 6, a middle 6 and a bottom 6.
Qualifiers.
Everyone starts from scratch.
The top six then play each other once to determine final positions.
The middle six play each other once to determine who gets to make the finals. Top two teams make it through to the finals.
The bottom six play each other once for the first six picks of the draft.
Finals.
As is currently run with a top 8

Top six of the draft is determined by the qualifiers
The next four by their finishing position before finals and top eight by post final results

Benefits:
A fair start to the season, everyone plays each other once, AFL can keep their "blockbuster games"
When the season is normally dead, teams have readjusted goals with real benefits
The qualifier games are between teams of similar ability, so games will be more compelling

 

[fusion]

I would watch North play in Div B without question. They'd still be up against AFL opposition, potentially some big clubs, and would have a clear goal - get back into Div A, which is more than our current goal.

Unfortunately the sponsors may not, and teams that are perennially mediocre and stuck in Div 2 would probably go broke without any decent games. Imagine if we were stuck in Div 2 with St Kilda, Melbourne and other low drawing clubs... and Div 1 was Collingwood, Hawthorn, Richmond, Essendon..... we would never be on free to air and may as well call div 2 the VFL. It'll be the death of smaller clubs like ours.

The AFL has a number of flaws - but introducing divisions will fix some, but create others. I do agree that the fixture has too many meaningless games at the end of the year, and is unfair. If there is a 20 team competition as you propose, what about a 19 round season instead, rather than divisions?

 

[Capriati]

“fan experience“.....where do these terms come from? Part of being a supporter is going to watch your team for better or worse.

What I mean is that even if your team is relegated fans will have something to cheer for in the season, playing other similarly skilled teams and having a chance to make it back in to the top league.

Carlton and Freo fans for example have had to endure 4 season of rebuilding and thrashing’s by top teams.




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[wolvesRoos]

What I mean is that even if your team is relegated fans will have something to cheer for in the season, playing other similarly skilled teams and having a chance to make it back in to the top league.

Carlton and Freo fans for example have had to endure 4 season of rebuilding and thrashing’s by top teams.




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There is some value to that. As a supporter of Wolverhampton in the Premier League, first we were fighting for years to go up from the championship (div2), then we had three years of trying to survive in the premier league, one of my happiest sporting days was winning a game that needed to be won to stay up with a goal with 5mins to go). Relegation came eventually followed by another, then it was winning div3, reestablishing in div2, winning that a few years after then up into the premier league again. Last year it was fighting to qualify for europe (which I guess is a bit like trying to make finals) and this year we dare to dream of champions league football... never a dull season tho

 

[Passmore]

What I mean is that even if your team is relegated fans will have something to cheer for in the season, playing other similarly skilled teams and having a chance to make it back in to the top league.

Carlton and Freo fans for example have had to endure 4 season of rebuilding and thrashing’s by top teams.




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You go down, lose all your players, maybe go up and then go down again. Yep sounds great. The fans will love it.

Getting beaten is part of life. You deal with it and respond. Every team takes their lumps on the way up. It’s a sad part of life now that everyone expects a turn at winning.


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[Capriati]

You go down, lose all your players, maybe go up and then go down again. Yep sounds great. The fans will love it.

Getting beaten is part of life. You deal with it and respond. Every team takes their lumps on the way up. It’s a sad part of life now that everyone expects a turn at winning.


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Agree, but shouldn’t part of taking your lumps be relegation to a division more suited to the current form and ability?


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[the flying ham]

Agree, but shouldn’t part of taking your lumps be relegation to a division more suited to the current form and ability?


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No.

What player in their right mind would take market rates to play 2nd div. Bottom clubs would struggle to attract recruits without paying through the nose. Sunday twilight fixtures become par for course. Rich get richer. Absolutely putrid idea

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[Passmore]

Agree, but shouldn’t part of taking your lumps be relegation to a division more suited to the current form and ability?


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Every team in the comp is basically competitive at the moment bar Gold Coast. I can’t see how a relegation system will help that. Carlton have had 4 bad years (I suspect it’s been more than that)? Tough. They’ve won 16 flags. Freo were in a GF not that long ago. Richmond and Footscray went from complete nuffies to premiers in 12 months.

If you want to create a rich and poor scenario to mirror every soccer comp around the world then relegation would be the way to do it.


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[the flying ham]

Every team in the comp is basically competitive at the moment bar Gold Coast. I can’t see how a relegation system will help that. Carlton have had 4 bad years (I suspect it’s been more than that)? Tough. They’ve won 16 flags. Freo were in a GF not that long ago. Richmond and Footscray went from complete nuffies to premiers in 12 months.

If you want to create a rich and poor scenario to mirror every soccer comp around the world then relegation would be the way to do it.


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6 sides won the Premier League since 1992. 5 won the serie A. 6 won the La Liga. 13 in the AFL in the same period.

 

[Passmore]

6 sides won the Premier League since 1992. 5 won the serie A. 6 won the La Liga. 13 in the AFL in the same period.

6 teams winning in Spain is actually quite surprising. Barca, Real, Atletico, Valencia?

If the 5 current AFL teams you’ve got STK who have played off 3 times, Freo, Melb and GWS once. GC are the only completely shitfull team.


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[wolvesRoos]

Relegation/Promotion would also ruin the draft, which means the bad teams wouldn't get the best talent making it harder for them to rise. I don't think it is a good idea for our sport, there is not enough money in it. We cant hope a rich Chinese guy comes along and buys us. That is what you need to be successful now in England. It has actually been the injection of Money into Chelsea, then Man City which got them back up winning things, Leicester and Wolverhampton to a lesser extent have had a huge amount of money injected by foreign owners which has made them capable of mixing it with the big boys. No team rises on talent alone, the big teams pluck all the talent away from them.

I am actually against free agency even though we have done ok out of it. The draft is the ultimate leveller. The best player from the bottom team should not be able to walk into the top team. Trade them, or make them go to the draft... if they dont like it, go play football in England... good luck

 

[DarwinRoo]

2006 North Melbourne kangaroos get relegated to Div 2
2007 Hello Gold Coast Kangaroos

 

[Firestarter]

6 teams winning in Spain is actually quite surprising. Barca, Real, Atletico, Valencia?

If the 5 current AFL teams you’ve got STK who have played off 3 times, Freo, Melb and GWS once. GC are the only completely shitfull team.


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Bilbao, Betis, Coruna. So actually it's 7.

 

[the flying ham]

Bilbao, Betis, Coruna. So actually it's 7.

Since 92? Nah

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[Firestarter]

Since 92? Nah

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Real Madrid, Barcelona, Atletico Madrid, Valencia, Coruna. So 5 I guess.

 

[Howard Littlejohn]

It would be the death of several clubs to be marooned in the lower division. I hate the term 'irrelevant' in relation to any club. But a club spending multiple seasons not even having to compete with the stronger teams would generate no interest, have all decent players drained from them and would indeed be irrelevant. Many such clubs would die. Including ours.

It is a patently stupid idea.

It would require a lot of funding to be diverted into the second tier to keep those clubs alive. They would almost certainly see attendance drops, and basically be worth nothing in media rights. Australians just don't seem to follow second tier anything if the first tier is regularly and widely available.

I just don't see how promotion/relegation can work with drafts or salary caps. And without a salary cap, West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood share premierships forevermore. The draft should be removed, IMO, so that wouldn't be a problem.

 

[Firestarter]

It would require a lot of funding to be diverted into the second tier to keep those clubs alive. They would almost certainly see attendance drops, and basically be worth nothing in media rights. Australians just don't seem to follow second tier anything if the first tier is regularly and widely available.

I just don't see how promotion/relegation can work with drafts or salary caps. And without a salary cap, West Coast, Adelaide and Collingwood share premierships forevermore. The draft should be removed, IMO, so that wouldn't be a problem.

And the AFL wouldn't give two **** about supporting a division 2 to make sure it works, let alone lower than that.