Strategy Three tall forwards

[jedi mind tricks]

Cheers Jedi - Do you think he might cut it as a forward, once he's packing a bit more beef?

I'm not sure. I've really only seen him play back for Peel. I can see him slowly turning into a good half back.

 

[Vintage]

I think you can have a team containing a maximum 4 of Sandilands, Pavlich, Taberner, Clarke and Apeness, with a maximum 3 of those 4 in the forward line at any given time.

I think we'll actually have a minimum of 4 out of sandi, pav, tabs, Clarke, apeness playing rather than a max of 4.

I also reckon tabs is a lock this year.

 

[free at last]

Will Pav play 100 percent of game time? The big dog might need to be managed.

$hit I hope we are fortunate enough to be able to manage the big dog.It'll mean a few factors are going well for us, we'll probably looking at minimum of a top 4 spot locked up.And tabs and apeness have both improved sharply.

 

[theGav56]

I think we'll actually have a minimum of 4 out of sandi, pav, tabs, Clarke, apeness playing rather than a max of 4.

I also reckon tabs is a lock this year.

How big a change to our game plan do you think that would be, especially the decision to reduce the number of running players to create a 3-4 person tall forward line? Is there anything in the pre-season that has suggested to you that we will potentially have 5 of them up during any given game? Do you think any of those have the ability to contribute at a high level beyond the forward line or the ruck?

For me Apeness is the better selection to partner Pavlich, not Taberner. He is the better marking player, and seems to be a better shot for goal. If the they were both in form that is where my personal preference lies. At this stage with Taberner having a years experience on Apeness he is more likely to get selected though, but would love to see Apeness getting some opportunities.

 

[Jezzitizle]

Wonder how pav would go thrown out on a wing alla richo style if tabs and apeness stand up. Would be a weapon in transition for us. Not sure if he could cover the ground though.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

How big a change to our game plan do you think that would be, especially the decision to reduce the number of running players to create a 3-4 person tall forward line? Is there anything in the pre-season that has suggested to you that we will potentially have 5 of them up during any given game? Do you think any of those have the ability to contribute at a high level beyond the forward line or the ruck?

For me Apeness is the better selection to partner Pavlich, not Taberner. He is the better marking player, and seems to be a better shot for goal. If the they were both in form that is where my personal preference lies. At this stage with Taberner having a years experience on Apeness he is more likely to get selected though, but would love to see Apeness getting some opportunities.

Not too big I wouldn't have thought... Taberner is a running player first for mine, Apeman doesn't look like too much of a slouch either, agreed he is the purer tall forward. A fit Zarke definitely has the legs too. Taberner to me is the potential Nick Riewoldt 2.0

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

sans gratuitous peen happy snaps of course!

 

[more_of_bito]

How big a change to our game plan do you think that would be, especially the decision to reduce the number of running players to create a 3-4 person tall forward line? Is there anything in the pre-season that has suggested to you that we will potentially have 5 of them up during any given game? Do you think any of those have the ability to contribute at a high level beyond the forward line or the ruck?

For me Apeness is the better selection to partner Pavlich, not Taberner. He is the better marking player, and seems to be a better shot for goal. If the they were both in form that is where my personal preference lies. At this stage with Taberner having a years experience on Apeness he is more likely to get selected though, but would love to see Apeness getting some opportunities.

Different players completely, who's going to do the running? Tabs runs off CHF while Pav plays the deepest to goal. Pavs runs are nowhere near as frequent or long as previous years, Tabs is a running machine similar to Riewoldt (Just not as good a footy player).

I Expect Apeness to play only when Pav is not available.

 

[theGav56]

Different players completely, who's going to do the running? Tabs runs off CHF while Pav plays the deepest to goal. Pavs runs are nowhere near as frequent or long as previous years, Tabs is a running machine similar to Riewoldt (Just not as good a footy player).

I Expect Apeness to play only when Pav is not available.

I think Apeness is a chance to play when any of Pavlich, Taberner, Clarke or Sandilands are not available. I also think you underestimate his mobility from the reports I have read.

Taberner needs to run because he is not a great shot for goal or contested mark. I prefer the key forwards being available closer to goal to contest marks and shoot for goal.

 

[simpsonwillo]

Pavlich is 192cm,which is not really a tall forward in today's game. He is also a very good ground level player as he is a former all Australian mid. In my mind I think it would be well worth trying out all three(Apeness,Tabs,Pav) in some games this year. I think Apeness is going to be awesome. He's a huge boy that takes the pack marks. He needs some game time and I'm pretty sure he'll get quite a bit this year. There's certainly a very exciting forward line right there. I'm pretty confident in saying that.

 

[darkshines]

I think the part of this equation missed thus far in this thread is Clarke. Widely accepted he is (and has been) a gun first ruck (ie 80% on ball), but due to being useless as a fwd, when he plays 30/70 ruck his overall usefullness is questionable. Lets be honest - he cost us a premiership (draws a KDEF, prevents Lake drawing to Pav contest, entries less predictable etc etc).

On the score, I dont think he is a certainty to play. Match commitee may decide that Port/Sydney model (one ruck, chop out from true fwds) is the way to go. Hawthorn are tremedously aided by Hale's capabilites in both roles.

Id say we could see Sandi + Tabs/Daws or even Sandi + Tabs/Ness as ruck combos this year, and no Clarke.

Havin said all that, when Sandi retires, Clarke will be grouse as 1st ruck

 

[rodney hoo]

I think the part of this equation missed thus far in this thread is Clarke. Widely accepted he is (and has been) a gun first ruck (ie 80% on ball), but due to being useless as a fwd, when he plays 30/70 ruck his overall usefullness is questionable. Lets be honest - he cost us a premiership (draws a KDEF, prevents Lake drawing to Pav contest, entries less predictable etc etc).

On the score, I dont think he is a certainty to play. Match commitee may decide that Port/Sydney model (one ruck, chop out from true fwds) is the way to go. Hawthorn are tremedously aided by Hale's capabilites in both roles.

Id say we could see Sandi + Tabs/Daws or even Sandi + Tabs/Ness as ruck combos this year, and no Clarke.

Havin said all that, when Sandi retires, Clarke will be grouse as 1st ruck

Clarke did not have his best game in the grand final, but was subed out when we were stillin it, everyone around me at the time thought he was injured. Appness maybe Tabs no chance in ruck.

 

[Suma Magic]

The Eagles actually went with four talls. Backed up with two mediums!

Some games Cox Naitanui and Lycett all played along with Kennedy and Darling. The others were LeCras (who is a marking medium) and Hill (again not a ball on ground player) or Cripps.

Then they replaced Lycett with McGovern. Way too unbalanced. The forward line improved when a small forward ( McGinnity) Was introduced. Imagine McGinnity being the best small forward!

You can only have three talls and one must chop out in the ruck or be a legitimate 2nd ruck. Three talls is pretty much standard. Port (which is why they added Ryder) and Freo before Tabs only ones to use two regularly.

You are spot on about McGinnity being our best small forward.

 

[pokerspiv]

I think the part of this equation missed thus far in this thread is Clarke. Widely accepted he is (and has been) a gun first ruck (ie 80% on ball), but due to being useless as a fwd, when he plays 30/70 ruck his overall usefullness is questionable. Lets be honest - he cost us a premiership (draws a KDEF, prevents Lake drawing to Pav contest, entries less predictable etc etc).

I think us playing Lachie Neale as the sub in that game was a much bigger error than anything Clarke did.

 

[Dockernut]

I think the part of this equation missed thus far in this thread is Clarke. Widely accepted he is (and has been) a gun first ruck (ie 80% on ball), but due to being useless as a fwd, when he plays 30/70 ruck his overall usefullness is questionable. Lets be honest - he cost us a premiership (draws a KDEF, prevents Lake drawing to Pav contest, entries less predictable etc etc).

On the score, I dont think he is a certainty to play. Match commitee may decide that Port/Sydney model (one ruck, chop out from true fwds) is the way to go. Hawthorn are tremedously aided by Hale's capabilites in both roles.

Id say we could see Sandi + Tabs/Daws or even Sandi + Tabs/Ness as ruck combos this year, and no Clarke.

Havin said all that, when Sandi retires, Clarke will be grouse as 1st ruck

A bit contradictory don't you think? Not a certainty to play, but likely to be first ruck when Sandi retires?

 

[darkshines]

A bit contradictory don't you think? Not a certainty to play, but likely to be first ruck when Sandi retires?

Not really - maybe I wasnt as clear as i thought i was. As a mobile ruckman Clarke is excellent, and is clearly our No 1 when Sandi retires. I think only Griffin fans would disagree with that.

As a fwd who rucks for <50% TOG, I think hes a liability when comparing us to the contenders. If Tabs/Zac D giving Sandi a chop out instead of Clarke means we fit in a true fwd like Crozier or even Mayne (who may well be fringe this year) - it has merit

 

[Righteo]

You are spot on about McGinnity being our best small forward.

Really? That's a bit sad.

Mark Lecras goes ok. I get that he doesn't play as a traditional crumber and is a very lead up type forward but you may as well call him one when the alternative is McGinnity. Serious crab, a poor man's Matt De boer.

Not really - maybe I wasnt as clear as i thought i was. As a mobile ruckman Clarke is excellent, and is clearly our No 1 when Sandi retires. I think only Griffin fans would disagree with that.

As a fwd who rucks for <50% TOG, I think hes a liability when comparing us to the contenders. If Tabs/Zac D giving Sandi a chop out instead of Clarke means we fit in a true fwd like Crozier or even Mayne (who may well be fringe this year) - it has merit

I have no doubt Griffin would give us more but his injury history combined with his age doesn't bode well. The fact Sandilands is seemingly evergreen doesn't help either, I personally predict that when Sandi retires Griffin will have either retired himself or sought a last desperate shot at another club.

I'm really hoping Apeness can put serious pressure on Clarke this year along with Griff and even Hannath.

 

[more_of_bito]

I think Apeness is a chance to play when any of Pavlich, Taberner, Clarke or Sandilands are not available. I also think you underestimate his mobility from the reports I have read.

Taberner needs to run because he is not a great shot for goal or contested mark. I prefer the key forwards being available closer to goal to contest marks and shoot for goal.

Gav have got disagree with you but realise we will know who's right once we see rnd 1 line up. For me tabs and Pav will be playing CHF and FF respectively (assume full fitness)
Clarke or Sandi will be replaced by Griffin and/or Hannath respectively as genuine ruck Fwds before Apeness
Taberner isn't a key forward (but agree not a great shot at goal as per my original post he's no Riewoldt in his footy abilities..but Apeness isn't a super mobile CHF at 200cm. If he was he'd have been pick 1.

 

[Clems Knee]

Gav have got disagree with you but realise we will know who's right once we see rnd 1 line up. For me tabs and Pav will be playing CHF and FF respectively (assume full fitness)
Clarke or Sandi will be replaced by Griffin and/or Hannath respectively as genuine ruck Fwds before Apeness
Taberner isn't a key forward (but agree not a great shot at goal as per my original post he's no Riewoldt in his footy abilities..but Apeness isn't a super mobile CHF at 200cm. If he was he'd have been pick 1.

I think we got a bargain with Michael Apeness. He was picked at number 17.
Pick 1 that year (2013)was Tom Boyd. Boyd was Apeness' team mate at Eastern Ranges as well as Vic Metro. So he always played second fiddle to the player considered the best young talent in the land. On top of that he was on the comeback trail from a knee reconstruction, and had less exposed form because he spent a couple of years playing rugby. After less than one year playing WAFL and during his first real pre season, he is already showing a great talent for contested marks and busting packs.
The ceiling for Apeness is very very high. I think it is comparable to Tom Boyd's ceiling. Except Apeness is much better value.
I know you were talking about Apeness being a super mobile CHF, I agree he's not, but I disagree with the pick 1 comment. The number 1 draft pick of 2009 was Tom Scully. What does that mean now?

 

[gungho]

I think we got a bargain with Michael Apeness. He was picked at number 17.
Pick 1 that year (2013)was Tom Boyd. Boyd was Apeness' team mate at Eastern Ranges as well as Vic Metro. So he always played second fiddle to the player considered the best young talent in the land. On top of that he was on the comeback trail from a knee reconstruction, and had less exposed form because he spent a couple of years playing rugby. After less than one year playing WAFL and during his first real pre season, he is already showing a great talent for contested marks and busting packs.
The ceiling for Apeness is very very high. I think it is comparable to Tom Boyd's ceiling. Except Apeness is much better value.
I know you were talking about Apeness being a super mobile CHF, I agree he's not, but I disagree with the pick 1 comment. The number 1 draft pick of 2009 was Tom Scully. What does that mean now?

Unless anyone knows any better (training watches with a meticulous eye that can also project into the future), I think we're all getting a bit ahead of ourselves about Michael Apeness. Don't get me wrong, I'd love him to be a power forward capable of kicking 50 plus goals a year, but at this stage, has he even kicked a goal yet?
I'd love him to have a break out year as much as the next Dockers fan, but maybe at this stage, it's best just to wait and see.

 

[Clems Knee]

Unless anyone knows any better (training watches with a meticulous eye that can also project into the future), I think we're all getting a bit ahead of ourselves about Michael Apeness. Don't get me wrong, I'd love him to be a power forward capable of kicking 50 plus goals a year, but at this stage, has he even kicked a goal yet?
I'd love him to have a break out year as much as the next Dockers fan, but maybe at this stage, it's best just to wait and see.

That's not very gung-ho of you.
You are right of course, we may be getting ahead of ourselves. But the training reports do indicate some good weapons to his arsenal.

 

[couldhavebeen]

I think the part of this equation missed thus far in this thread is Clarke. Widely accepted he is (and has been) a gun first ruck (ie 80% on ball), but due to being useless as a fwd, when he plays 30/70 ruck his overall usefullness is questionable. Lets be honest - he cost us a premiership (draws a KDEF, prevents Lake drawing to Pav contest, entries less predictable etc etc).

On the score, I dont think he is a certainty to play. Match commitee may decide that Port/Sydney model (one ruck, chop out from true fwds) is the way to go. Hawthorn are tremedously aided by Hale's capabilites in both roles.

Id say we could see Sandi + Tabs/Daws or even Sandi + Tabs/Ness as ruck combos this year, and no Clarke.

Having said all that, when Sandi retires, Clarke will be grouse as 1st ruck

You have no idea at all about the football structures of the RTB game plan at all .
Clarke is a very important piece of the game plan because of his mobility and ruck work . Yes we have been developing him as a forward option but his strength is around the ground positioning and defensive marking .He positions himself on the defensive wing and supports the back line by being a marking target when the ball is coming out of defence and into attack .

 

[Big Animal]

Just so long as the team structure is set up for defending the ball coming out of the F50 rather than just kicking goals...that's the Freo way, plan for when you fail

 

[couldhavebeen]

RTB and the coaches have been building the fitness levels over this preseason like never before and skills of all players have improved as well .
Clarke is the fittest I have ever seen before and Sandi is doing more running this year as well .
The forward combinations are all being tested during training and the only one that is behind in his development at this stage is Duffy but his is working as hard as he can to catch up to the rest of the team .
Clarke and Sandi are not KPF"s and never will be IMHO .
Both are one paced players with no acceleration off the mark . Apeness and Taberner however do have that and that is how they get separation and space to clunk marks .
When Clarke first started getting games we played him on the wing and his endurance was there for all to see . Clarke could be played off the HFF where he can run into space and create a huge head ache for the 3rd tall opposition backmen
Sandi similarly has great endurance and is reasonable quick for a big guy but doesn't have Pavs acceleration off the mark .
Apeness is the true old fashioned pack marking FF very much like Troy Wilson was for the Eagles and Taylor is for Adelaide now .
Pavlich and Taberner are first choice tall forwards along with Mayne , Ballas ,Walters and Crozier .
If Walters is to play more time in the midfield then on of our midfielders will spend more time in the forward line .
What really is exciting for me is Clancee and Ibbo being fully fit along with Silvagni bringing pressure on the best 22 .

 

[theGav56]

Agree with those comments re Clarke. My structural issue about Clarke and Taberner both playing in our forward line is that they share some attributes. The negative attributes they share include lack of contested marking and scoreboard impact.

Can Taberner improve in those areas? How is his training in those areas?