Restricted Free Agent Tim English [RFA 2024]

[jdstorm]

Why would we want Darcy Parish?

Personally I rate him. Would improve most teams as they’re 3rd/4th mid.

Prime aged midfielder, Good tank, great hands. Isn’t a number 1 mid but if he’s your 2nd-4th best mid your a very good team. Dogs potentially have Bont, Smith and Sanders there as your larger bodies.

He’s better then Ben Hobbs who would get his spot if he was moved on but you’d take the downgrade as to not have to give up picks to get English

Essendon have frontloaded his deal and it doesn’t rise with the cap so he’s also on a team friendly contract.

 

[Ash1337]

Personally I rate him. Would improve most teams as they’re 3rd/4th mid.

Prime aged midfielder, Good tank, great hands. Isn’t a number 1 mid but if he’s your 2nd-4th best mid your a very good team. Dogs potentially have Bont, Smith and Sanders there as your larger bodies.

He’s better then Ben Hobbs who would get his spot if he was moved on but you’d take the downgrade as to not have to give up picks to get English

Essendon have frontloaded his deal and it doesn’t rise with the cap so he’s also on a team friendly contract.

He's no better than who we have currently on in the midfield and the dogs are changing the way the midfield is looking so he might not even be on the radar of what the team wants.

 

[jdstorm]

He's no better than who we have currently on in the midfield and the dogs are changing the way the midfield is looking so he might not even be on the radar of what the team wants.

Libba, Trealor, McRae will all be 30 or over by the time the season ends.

Bont is a few years younger then it’s Crickets till Bailey Smith (23 Who wants to leave) and Sanders (Who Bevo hates)

Having a prime aged (26 yr old) formerly elite clearance mid seems like a useful thing for the Dogs list to me.

If English is Gone. And the choice is 100 games of prime Parish + a younger prospect vs pick 10 personally I’d go for the more predictable good outcome (with better upside) especially considering you have a contention window around prime Bont and a stacked forward line.

Dogs have the elite talent (Naughton, Jamarra, Darcy, Weighman, Bont, Sanders). Just need to sure up their defence (and a better coach)

 

[Ash1337]

Libba, Trealor, McRae will all be 30 or over by the time the season ends.

Bont is a few years younger then it’s Crickets till Bailey Smith (23 Who wants to leave) and Sanders (Who Bevo hates)

Having a prime aged (26 yr old) formerly elite clearance mid seems like a useful thing for the Dogs list to me.

If English is Gone. And the choice is 100 games of prime Parish + a younger prospect vs pick 10 personally I’d go for the more predictable good outcome (with better upside) especially considering you have a contention window around prime Bont and a stacked forward line.

Dogs have the elite talent (Naughton, Jamarra, Darcy, Weighman, Bont, Sanders). Just need to sure up their defence (and a better coach)

After Libba, Trealor, Macrae. We have Harmes, Daniel, Garcia, Richards, Gallagher & of course Sanders who is still learning.
After that we have West and Weightman who have all been used at stages and still might become midfielders down the line.
Daniel is very like Parish except he can also has good kicking and decision making. In fact his hands are probably better than Parish's It's just that he's behind Libba, Trealor & Macrae who also do the same or better in some areas.

Smith leaving does mean dogs need to find another mid but not the Parish type. Dogs are after a pacey mid.

Also Sanders being dropped doesn't mean he is hated by bevo. That's just idiotic when he's a draftee with a very high ceiling. He obviously has things he needs to work on and it no used to keep him playing at senior level until he is ready.

As for Bevo himself. There is rumors all over the place and most are media driven. The season is not yet half-way to know for sure whether the club will move forward with him or not.

 

[cecil]

Libba, Trealor, McRae will all be 30 or over by the time the season ends.

Bont is a few years younger then it’s Crickets till Bailey Smith (23 Who wants to leave) and Sanders (Who Bevo hates)

Having a prime aged (26 yr old) formerly elite clearance mid seems like a useful thing for the Dogs list to me.

If English is Gone. And the choice is 100 games of prime Parish + a younger prospect vs pick 10 personally I’d go for the more predictable good outcome (with better upside) especially considering you have a contention window around prime Bont and a stacked forward line.

Dogs have the elite talent (Naughton, Jamarra, Darcy, Weighman, Bont, Sanders). Just need to sure up their defence (and a better coach)

So we'd trade the AA ruckman for a guy who wouldn't be part of our first mid rotation until 3 others retire (with all 3 contracted next year, and Macrae another 2 after that)?

In that 2 years there's also the very real prospect that Sanders and especially Richards will go ahead of him

 

[jdstorm]

So we'd trade the AA ruckman for a guy who wouldn't be part of our first mid rotation until 3 others retire (with all 3 contracted next year, and Macrae another 2 after that)?

In that 2 years there's also the very real prospect that Sanders and especially Richards will go ahead of him

The premise of this trade was that English wanted to leave as a free agent and nominated Essendon. (Due to being offered huge money)

Then finding a deal that works for both sides.

I think it’s a fair trade. If you think Parish isn’t better then Harmes, Helmet and a bunch of players who would be fringe best 22 at most clubs then there’s no point.

I disagree with that. See his 2021 AA jacket

 

[cecil]

The premise of this trade was that English wanted to leave as a free agent and nominated Essendon. (Due to being offered huge money)

Then finding a deal that works for both sides.

I think it’s a fair trade. If you think Parish isn’t better then Harmes, Helmet and a bunch of players who would be fringe best 22 at most clubs then there’s no point.

I disagree with that. See his 2021 AA jacket

He's better than those players, but those players take about 5 CBAs a game for us. He'd need to be better than Bont, Treloar, and Libba for the next year or two, and Bont, 2026 Sanders and Richards to get big midfield minutes for us. He's not better than the first 3, and within 2 years we'd hope Sanders and Richards have gone past Parish.

He's a FA and we are bottom 10. If he wants to go we'd take the pick rather than get Parish who isn't a need

 

[jdstorm]

He's better than those players, but those players take about 5 CBAs a game for us. He'd need to be better than Bont, Treloar, and Libba for the next year or two, and Bont, 2026 Sanders and Richards to get big midfield minutes for us. He's not better than the first 3, and within 2 years we'd hope Sanders and Richards have gone past Parish.

He's a FA and we are bottom 10. If he wants to go we'd take the pick rather than get Parish who isn't a need

The actual trade I suggested was Parish + Nick Bryan + 2nd.

I think that’s much better value than pick 10. Since it will probably get pushed back a few spots via priority pics and Academy/FS players. It’s closer to pick 15.

Regardless. I also think letting English walk for a compo pick is a bad idea because it limits your ability to bring in a replacement player via FA so you loose that salary slot(i also wouldn’t want Lobb as my no1 ruck and would want a budget replacement for English via FA.)

If you’re going to move off Tim English I’d want to get back 2 best 18 players at positions of need (Key defence?) with a highly likelyhood of long careers ahead of them and a potentially elite ceiling on one.

Back in Bont, Sanders, Darcy Murra and Naughton to be the core elite players of a 3-5 year championship window

Then use the trade hauls from English and Smith fill any list gaps with 22-25 yr old high upside players .

That’s just my thoughts

 

[cecil]

The actual trade I suggested was Parish + Nick Bryan + 2nd.

I think that’s much better value than pick 10. Since it will probably get pushed back a few spots via priority pics and Academy/FS players. It’s closer to pick 15.

Regardless. I also think letting English walk for a compo pick is a bad idea because it limits your ability to bring in a replacement player via FA so you loose that salary slot(i also wouldn’t want Lobb as my no1 ruck and would want a budget replacement for English via FA.)

If you’re going to move off Tim English I’d want to get back 2 best 18 players at positions of need (Key defence?) with a highly likelyhood of long careers ahead of them and a potentially elite ceiling on one.

Back in Bont, Sanders, Darcy Murra and Naughton to be the core elite players of a 3-5 year championship window

Then use the trade hauls from English and Smith fill any list gaps with 22-25 yr old high upside players .

That’s just my thoughts

Yeah just don't think Bryan would be best 22 and Parish wouldn't be a full time midfielder for us

 

[jdstorm]

Yeah just don't think Bryan would be best 22 and Parish wouldn't be a full time midfielder for us

Assuming you don’t have English and Lobb (because they got traded) who’s playing Ruck alongside Darcy?

 

[The Inbetweener]

Assuming you don’t have English and Lobb (because they got traded) who’s playing Ruck alongside Darcy?

If English was to go we wouldn’t trade Lobb.

 

[jdstorm]

If English was to go we wouldn’t trade Lobb.

That seems unwise with both Collingwood and Melbourne desperate for a Ruck/Forward (and thus willing to overpay) for a pretty average player who just happens to be tall.

Where as you have Darcy who can be your Ruck/forward and need more of a pure ruck (far cheaper) to soak up some minutes there

You’d come out in front in the wash ditching both

 

[TiAn_]

That seems unwise with both Collingwood and Melbourne desperate for a Ruck/Forward (and thus willing to overpay) for a pretty average player who just happens to be tall.

Where as you have Darcy who can be your Ruck/forward and need more of a pure ruck (far cheaper) to soak up some minutes there

You’d come out in front in the wash ditching both

If English goes as a FA we would simply keep Lobb and the draft pick.

Why on earth would we want Darcy Parish on a 6 year deal to come and fight with Ryley Sanders and Jack Maceae to be our 4th-6th mid. He’ll be in salary dump territory as early as next year.

 

[Ash1337]

That seems unwise with both Collingwood and Melbourne desperate for a Ruck/Forward (and thus willing to overpay) for a pretty average player who just happens to be tall.

Where as you have Darcy who can be your Ruck/forward and need more of a pure ruck (far cheaper) to soak up some minutes there

You’d come out in front in the wash ditching both

If they're desperate for a ruck/forward then they would have gone after English and work their cap around him. Melbourne probably have the cap space to offer English something he is after. I don't think for a second unless Essendon are offering English something insane that no other club would consider it even a cashed up Eagles would do that English would take up. I expect if Essendon did then I would if I were a supporter of the club wonder why they're even giving that kind of money for a ruck when Draper is there.

 

[jdstorm]

If they're desperate for a ruck/forward then they would have gone after English and work their cap around him. Melbourne probably have the cap space to offer English something he is after. I don't think for a second unless Essendon are offering English something insane that no other club would consider it even a cashed up Eagles would do that English would take up. I expect if Essendon did then I would if I were a supporter of the club wonder why they're even giving that kind of money for a ruck when Draper is there.

Both Melbourne and Collingwood have no1 rucks (Gawn and Cameron) and Melbourne specifically has just been burned by trying to pair Gawn with an AA level ruck. So I think they’re out on English and will be shopping in a different bracket.

I think English’s market will narrow down to 3 teams (Dogs, Cats and Dons) given it’s said he wants to be in Melbourne. And all will be offering huge money. (cats have Hawkins retiring and can shuffle some things around)

As for why would Essendon go after English when they have Draper/Bryan?

Because with both on the list Goldy is the Number 1 ruck. Drapers not that good. One of Essendons biggest issues is around the ground Marking/contested wing marking situations. That’s English’s biggest strength. Essendon have the ability to offer English “insane” money. Then they can trade Draper/Bryan for someone/picks that help improve the team.

This strategy works extra well if all the dogs want is a compo pick due to a lower table finish on the ladder.

 

[Ash1337]

Both Melbourne and Collingwood have no1 rucks (Gawn and Cameron) and Melbourne specifically has just been burned by trying to pair Gawn with an AA level ruck. So I think they’re out on English and will be shopping in a different bracket.

I think English’s market will narrow down to 3 teams (Dogs, Cats and Dons) given it’s said he wants to be in Melbourne. And all will be offering huge money. (cats have Hawkins retiring and can shuffle some things around)

As for why would Essendon go after English when they have Draper/Bryan?

Because with both on the list Goldy is the Number 1 ruck. Drapers not that good. One of Essendons biggest issues is around the ground Marking/contested wing marking situations. That’s English’s biggest strength. Essendon have the ability to offer English “insane” money. Then they can trade Draper/Bryan for someone/picks that help improve the team.

This strategy works extra well if all the dogs want is a compo pick due to a lower table finish on the ladder.

Cameron is 31 and can play forward. Gawn is the same age and have been trying to rest him forward when possible. Grundy couldn't rotate with Gawn because Grundy was poor in the forward line while Gawn was rucking. He had to be rotated on the bench and that made things difficult for the Dees.

I think Draper has still more to give but he's been put out because Scott is playing favorites with Goldy atm and Wright is playing that fwd/ruck role. Draper can improve with goldy rucking like English did when Martin was bought in. Dons don't need to sell the farm for English. They just need to develop Draper.

As for Forcing a trade. It would be better if dons traded out players like Parish, Bryan &/or Draper to other clubs then on trade their picks for a good first round and maybe Baldwin if Reid is untouchable.

 

[jdstorm]

Cameron is 31 and can play forward. Gawn is the same age and have been trying to rest him forward when possible. Grundy couldn't rotate with Gawn because Grundy was poor in the forward line while Gawn was rucking. He had to be rotated on the bench and that made things difficult for the Dees.

I think Draper has still more to give but he's been put out because Scott is playing favorites with Goldy atm and Wright is playing that fwd/ruck role. Draper can improve with goldy rucking like English did when Martin was bought in. Dons don't need to sell the farm for English. They just need to develop Draper.

As for Forcing a trade. It would be better if dons traded out players like Parish, Bryan &/or Draper to other clubs then on trade their picks for a good first round and maybe Baldwin if Reid is untouchable.

Scott was playing Dual Rucks (Draper and Goldy) but only wanting to play 3 talls. (Because Jake Stringer is a slow forward and you can’t have 5 slow front half players)

it was Harry Jones vs Bryan and Jones has played pretty well so he’s got that spot for now.

Part of the appeal of the deal to Essendon is getting a player cheap/not giving up too much depth so I don’t imagine they’d give up too much.

If you’re trading 3 players to get the chance to overpay English then I don’t think that’s smart/good value.

That’s why I like Parish as a trade piece because I think he’d be good for you and it would be a salary dump for Essendon to allow chasing another FA. So a win win.

If Essendons trading out good players for good picks they’re better off keeping those picks and paying Ned Moyle

 

[Vindicater]

Did not have a Parish for English trade on my bingo card.

 

[Libbaaaa]

Weird that the media isn't running with any one club as having a massive deal in front of English. Even the worst free agents get reported as having overs in front of them to leave, crickets for English but.

 

[Dazb86]

Weird that the media isn't running with any one club as having a massive deal in front of English. Even the worst free agents get reported as having overs in front of them to leave, crickets for English but.

Think teams have jerried on that he can be pretty soft.

He's playing well the last few weeks though.

 

[Obeanie1]

Weird that the media isn't running with any one club as having a massive deal in front of English. Even the worst free agents get reported as having overs in front of them to leave, crickets for English but.

His concussion issues to a degree have spooked him and any suitors.

I saw a couple of games back at a center bounce the opposition ruck jumped and lifted his knee and it was head high coming straight at him. He ducked out the way pretty quick which isn't a criticism but it just looked like he was extremely wary about taking contact. After that nasty concussion I don't blame him one bit.

Reading the Dogs board a lot of fans say his best position is a roaming CHF and backup ruck. 100% agree. However, it seems Tim sees himself as the #1 ruck. Feel he needs to embrace his strengths and let a young aggressive bull take the #1 ruck role for both the Dogs benefit and also for his own benefit long term.

If he did land at the Eagles (1% chance of happening I know) I'd play him at CHF not rucking. His ability to cover the ground, provide a tall marking option on the wings and get involved in link up play is still elite IMO. Good for a couple of goals a game and can take the forward 50 ruck contests.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Has any player devalued their worth more by not signing and without getting injured? (I realise he's had concussion issues but they haven't changed the way he's always played)

Gets bullied in the ruck time and again. Hes isnt getting any stronger or better at ruck craft at his age.

 

[adogsfan5]

Has any player devalued their worth more by not signing and without getting injured? (I realise he's had concussion issues but they haven't changed the way he's always played)

Gets bullied in the ruck time and again. Hes isnt getting any stronger or better at ruck craft at his age.

Do you watch much of our games? Hes actually had a very good last 3 weeks. His opponents - Nankervis, Grundy and Briggs. Yeah didn’t win the hit out number in those games but his hitouts to advantage have been very solid (think he beat Grundy on Friday in that stat) and has been more physical. The other rucks who are averaging more hitouts to advantage who have been playing regularly are Meek, O’Brien and Gawn.

Perhaps working harder for a nicer contract? Who knows.

 

[amazingjoshy]

Do you watch much of our games? Hes actually had a very good last 3 weeks. His opponents - Nankervis, Grundy and Briggs. Yeah didn’t win the hit out number in those games but his hitouts to advantage have been very solid (think he beat Grundy on Friday in that stat) and has been more physical. The other rucks who are averaging more hitouts to advantage who have been playing regularly are Meek, O’Brien and Gawn.

Perhaps working harder for a nicer contract? Who knows.

Yeah he's quite good at directing a hitout to his teams advantage...when he wins one. The problem is he doesn't win that many given how many ruck contests he attends

His hit out win percentage is below (and only including actual rucks) Darcy, Cox, O'Brien, Witts, Sweet, Nankervis, Gawn, Goldstein, Grundy, Soldo, Meek , Xerri, Moyle, Visentini, McInerney, Cameron and Reeves

I'm not doubting he's a good player, his ideal role would be tall fwd/backup ruck imo. But he's not the sort you pay up big dollars for imo and I reckon more and more are realising it

 

[Slysh]

I am dead against paying up for ruck men unless they are named Gawn, i think the gap in impact between a Xerri, Meek, Cameron, Briggs type ruck compared to an English, Darcy type is not worth anywhere near as much as the gap between elite mids to role player mids or elite forwards compared to role player forwards.

You need to be competitive in the ruck, not sure it is essential to have more than that.