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Time to get TOUGH

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Once more with ill-feeling as Hall ensures Saints maintain the rage
Richard Hinds
Sydney Morning Herald
June 6, 2006

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SHOULD St Kilda defender Matt Maguire jog down to the goal square at the SCG on Saturday night to renew acquaintances with Swans star Barry Hall, expect more than the usual amount of pressure to be applied from both sides during the pre-match handshake.

The consequences of their most recent meeting during last season's preliminary final have become football folklore. Hall was suspended for punching Maguire in the stomach, then reprieved by the tribunal just four days before the grand final after the Swans' counsel exploited a loophole in the reporting rules - still not closed - that allowed an incident that happened at least 30metres from the ball to be declared "in play".

However, while Hall's crisp jab to Maguire's stomach is unlikely to endear the Swans forward to his opponent, it is the behind-the-scenes aftermath to that skirmish that will add extra spice to Saturday night's encounter.

As the Swans prepared their defence for Hall, even before he had been given a one-game ban by the AFL's match review panel, they knew the Saints were unwilling to allow Maguire to give evidence that the contact was minimal - although not merely because the blow had been more significant than that.

Maguire had stayed on the ground for some time after the punch - something noted, in unflattering terms, by television commentator Robert Walls. Subsequently, the Saints defender was vilified by other observers - and a flood of Swans fans on talkback radio - as a "stager" whose supposed acting could cost the Swans the flag.

A St Kilda spokesperson said Maguire was unavailable for comment this week. But it is believed the Saints were furious about the assertions that Maguire had been staging, particularly given his reputation as one of the game's toughest backmen and Hall's well-known skills in the boxing ring.

For that reason, the Saints believed Maguire was in a no-win situation. If he adhered to the unofficial code of silence whereby players appearing as witnesses describe anything short of an iron bar across the temple as "slight contact" and Hall was still suspended, Maguire would be forever vilified as the man who cost Hall a place in the grand final. Had he helped Hall get off, he would still be unfairly cast as a stager.

Inevitably, the Saints' refusal to provide supportive evidence was not the reason Maguire was not asked to tell his story at the tribunal. With the panel deeming the hit only "low impact", and the Swans counsel Terry Forrest, QC, quickly identifying the "in play" loophole, Hall pleaded guilty to the charge and, with the activation points downgraded, escaped with a reprimand.

But asked about the incident by the Herald earlier this year, Hall left no doubt there was lingering ill-feeling about St Kilda's reluctance to help him.

"We tried to get in touch with them during the [preparations for the] tribunal, maybe to get him as a witness or to speak on our behalf," Hall said. "But, luckily, we didn't need to. I suppose there is a lot of criticism on his behalf, and he was pretty hesitant to speak on my behalf because of that and that's fair enough. I can understand that. But that was out of my control." The Hall case was not the only off-field sidelight to the Swans' 31-point preliminary final victory. Sydney entered the match believing the Saints' tough forward Aaron Hamill could have played despite a hip injury, but was being rested for the grand final - a sign St Kilda were looking ahead. Saints coach Grant Thomas has subsequently denied Hamill could have played or that they had underestimated the Swans.

The fallout from that match is just the latest instalment in a century-long rivalry between St Kilda and the Swans that dates back to the "Lake Derby" between the teams at either end of Melbourne's Albert Park Lake.

In modern times, Tony Lockett has intensified the rivalry - particularly when, in St Kilda colours, he smashed Swans defender Peter Caven's jaw then, on a subsequent trip to the SCG, drilled Swans fans who jeered him with a low drop punt. Yet Lockett, like the legendary Roy Cazaly who played 99 games for both St Kilda and South Melbourne, was to become a legend at both clubs.

Now, with the Saints desperate for victory and memories of Hall's clash with Maguire still fresh, expect the next battle in a long-running feud to cause fireworks on Saturday night.
 
And in The Age they run with "Hall takes another swipe at Saints' Maguire" as the title.

I was waiting for the juicy quote from Hall . . . and I'm still waiting.

Talk about a nothing piece about nothing.
 
JeffDunne said:
And in The Age they run with "Hall takes another swipe at Saints' Maguire" as the title.

I was waiting for the juicy quote from Hall . . . and I'm still waiting.

Talk about a nothing piece about nothing.

Agreed.

When I read the headline I was expecting Hall to have said some fairly strong words against Maguire and the club.

All he has done is admitted that it was a tough position for Maguire to be in.

I'm more worried about Saturday nights game and the consequences of another loss in a season that is rapidly slipping away.
 
have i missread or does it say that sydney wanted us(saints) to lie to the tribunal to get barry hall off?
 

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It did appear that way Panthers, didn't it?

Last year, Melbourne came out in the second match and tried to be tough.
They were dismal failures at it, and we laughed at their pathetic attempt.
This year, they tried the same thing - something I haven't seen them do against any other team - and this time they roughed us up.

Maybe they see the Saints as a team that can be rattled. I don't know.
I think they were intimidated by our physicality earlier in 2005 when we first met. They were trying to match us physically in that second match. They thought they could match it with us in skill, but we toughed them out of it.
That second game was a joke - and they were at the butt end of it.

I have NEVER thought of Melbourne as a tough team.

WE are the tough team.

When we play our best when we're tough and uncompromising.

Last year we were led in the toughness stakes by Lenny Hayes and Aaron Hamill. We miss them for this. Also we had Guerra, who was a tough little bugger and very solid. These guys weren't our only hard nuts, but they led the pack and they intimidated. Kosi loves the tough stuff as well. He's not intimidated by a bit of bump and grind, he takes it as a challenge.

We are missing some of our hard nuts, but this doesn't mean we can't be tougher than last week. I was appalled that a wussy team like Melbourne could intimidate the Saints.

I put the above article here because I think Maguire has enough motivation to lead us in the tough game. I don't want him to rush out and punch Hall in the guts (as much as he deserves it), I want Maguire to step up against the Swans and bully them. His leadership at CHB has been minimal this year, and he has shown only moderate form. He needs to step up and show that he is a major part of this St Kilda machine.

Luke Ball has been slowly improving each week. His contributions are now approaching that of last years form. He still seems to lack some of his pace but he is such a smart footballer that he compensates for this.

The third quarter against Melbourne was our best. We took control of the match. Daniher went into damage control and we started putting scores on the board.

What did we do different? I'll tell you - we started taking risks. We played on instead of stopping and looking for options. We mucked it up a few times but we then put the pressure on the Demons and they coughed it up.

This style of play is how we used to play. It is what we are very good at.
Dal and Bally were crucial to the resurgence and it brought everyone else into the match. The major difference in stats was handpasses - this is the way to go. Play on quickly, run in numbers with the ball, handpass when under pressure and keep it going forward. Get it quickly into our forwards and give them space. The most significant stat is first possessions. When the opponents get the ball first they set up their possession football structures and we spend our time chasing. If we can get first possessions, the free kick balance may tip in our favour.
Clearances is the second most important stat, make them chase us.

Look at the stats of the third quarter against Melbourne, it looks as if we were being beaten.

MelbTeam StatsStK

58 Kicks 49
45 Marks 23
20 Handballs 40
15 Tackles 8
6 Hitouts 5
1 Frees 5

When Melbourne got the ball they went into possession mode. Kicking it sideways and sometimes forward to uncontested marks. Kicks and marks stats are misleading. Have a look at handballs and tackles. We had the ball a lot, we made them chase us, and they caught us a few times (Hence tackles went their way). When we had it we went forward in numbers, we handballed under pressure and kept up the pace, we got it forward and we goaled.

I want to see a tougher, faster, more risk-taking St Kilda up against the Swans.

We comfortably beat the Roos, and they nearly won (probably deserved it too) against the Swans.
The form shows that we are capable and we all know that we're good enough. We will beat the Swans.

The one concern I have is tactically nullifying the Swans use of the SCG. It is such a small ground that visiting teams don't adapt to it quickly - giving the Swans a distinct advantage.

Grant and the boys need to work on a few approaches to cutting off the Swans possession game. Maguire needs to show his grunt and Max needs to get back on track. Fraser Gehrig should be at the forefront of intimidating the opposition. His big frame and his scowl give him a head start, he needs to be smarter, tougher and harder.

Tough Hard Saints
 
It'd be nice if Bally could kick it over a jam tin too. He must still be carrying a gut muscle problem; he can't kick it more than 30 metres. But at least he is starting to get the pill a bit.

Gehrig has never used his bulk to intimidate. He could do some serious damage breaking open packs just by contesting hard in the air, but seems to prefer to try and one-on-one wrestle opponents for marks. The problem there is they all know this trick now, and expect it.

I'm hoping for a much improved attack on the pill this week. If we don't the Swannies will make us look second rate. If we do we can win.

Box on Sainters!
 
StKildonan said:
I have NEVER thought of Melbourne as a tough team.

WE are the tough team.

When we play our best when we're tough and uncompromising.

Last year we were led in the toughness stakes by Lenny Hayes and Aaron Hamill. We miss them for this. Also we had Guerra, who was a tough little bugger and very solid. These guys weren't our only hard nuts, but they led the pack and they intimidated. Kosi loves the tough stuff as well. He's not intimidated by a bit of bump and grind, he takes it as a challenge.

We are missing some of our hard nuts, but this doesn't mean we can't be tougher than last week. I was appalled that a wussy team like Melbourne could intimidate the Saints.

I just watched the game and I would say that, although we missed Lenny, Sammy and Kozi, I do think the reason we ended up being beaten on toughness by the Dees was the first quarter.

Actually, we tried to play hard and tough that first 20 minutes, but watch it again carefully. It seemed that every time we tried to be tough, a free kick was called against us (deserved or undeservedly). On the contrary, the Dees received the vast majority of the free kicks for, and even a couple of holding the ball against them were not even payed when it was clearly a violation of regulation. I believe the way we were umpired in that quarter was the reason the Saints played like they did (untough, not to say soft) the rest of the game, and were dominated phisically by the Demons.

I'm not saying we didn't have a bad game (except for the 3rd qtr), full of clangers (again... grrr) and shocking dumb decision-making. I am not trying to put it up as an excuse, it's just my explanation on why did we suddenly become intimidated by a team we never thought could be called tough.
 
I watched the game and the biggest dramas for us in my opinion were,
A: Fraser not Leading/or even looking like he wanted the nut. The amount of time the ball ended up down near our goals and i didn't even see him, if i did he was behind his man and didnt even have his hands up. if any other player (non Star) did that it would be back to the Scorpions.
B: Zoning off. We let them kick out and run the ball pretty much all the way to there 50 before we put any pressure on. Man up and keep the ball in our half.
C: Stopping dead on half back with no target 70 out. I saw Roo do it a few times but we would get it out of defence then look and there was no options so were back to chipping it around.

Nicky to CHF leading up and Fraser a big Kick in the A*rse
 

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