To be honest just sounds like more of the same Marsh moaning. Yesterday was exactly the reason he was selected - he's forged a reputation as being our go to guy in the middle order who is willing to guts it out when things are tough. Has produced on numerous occasions over the last few years since his reintroduction to the test side.
Time to give the selectors some credit
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To be honest just sounds like more of the same Marsh moaning. Yesterday was exactly the reason he was selected - he's forged a reputation as being our go to guy in the middle order who is willing to guts it out when things are tough. Has produced on numerous occasions over the last few years since his reintroduction to the test side.
As long as mitch marsh is in the team people will always complain, present company included. He may be a talented domestic cricketer, a decent odi player and a serviceable test bowler, but he's not up to the required standard.
For a bowling all rounder he's been gash. Just 2 overs in 3 innings, and averaging 10.5 with the bat, always looking like a walking wicket. His fielding certainly doesn't warrant selection over more talented players.
I don't care if Maxwell doesn't bowl, he's a better bat and fielder. The other option is Usman but the Aussies won't select him unless they're desperate. It would mean shuffling SMarsh to 6 to accomodate him.
For a bowling all rounder he's been gash. Just 2 overs in 3 innings, and averaging 10.5 with the bat, always looking like a walking wicket. His fielding certainly doesn't warrant selection over more talented players.
I don't care if Maxwell doesn't bowl, he's a better bat and fielder. The other option is Usman but the Aussies won't select him unless they're desperate. It would mean shuffling SMarsh to 6 to accomodate him.
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It'd be just about perfect if they decided to fly Moises in for the 3rd test as a batsman that can bowl 5-10 overs at #6.
If you were our selector than 2 of Australia's best performing players for this game in Lyon and S.Marsh wouldn't have been given a game. I don't think Mitch should probably be in the side but you'll have to forgive me for thinking the national selectors have more of a clue than lounge-chair experts like yourself.
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then you can't give the selectors too much credit.
if khawaja is completely clueless against spin as you say, then why would you select him in the 16 man touring party ?
I never said he should be dropped for this game. I said that his summer performances dont warrant his selection. He's picked up 13 wickets, same as SOK so he's done well.
As for Marsh, if he'd failed this test, there's no doubt that he would have been dropped, none what so ever. He's saved his career barring ducks from here on out.
Renshaw has probably been the best Australian batsman so far.
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Smarsh averages something like 60 in Asia, which is hen's teeth when it comes to Australian batsmen. Even if Khawaja wasn't complete poop against spin, I'd struggle to not have him in the first XI for this tour.
I'd seriously probably drop Warner before Smarsh in these conditions.
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Before yesterday's innings.....(actually may have been midway through)
@CricProf: Marsh faces an average of 144 balls per innings in Asia. He has faced 50+ balls 7/8 times, 100+ 4/8, 200+ 2/8, 300+ 1/8. #IndvAus
@CricProf: Marsh faces an average of 144 balls per innings in Asia. He has faced 50+ balls 7/8 times, 100+ 4/8, 200+ 2/8, 300+ 1/8. #IndvAus
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This is just Jack Watts logic. If you keep picking a guy over and over and he eventually plays well then his selection is justified.
To the bolded, no he hasn't. In 2016/17 he's batted 5 times as an opener and twice at #4. He's played 20 tests and averages under 40. He hasn't proven anything than he's capable of batting well at test level and equally capable of getting out before reaching double figures.
And Voges averages 500 in the West Indies. Mitchell Starc averages 15 with the ball in Sri Lanka. Is he a subcontinent specialist? People seriously need to grasp the concept of sample size.
I've been a Marsh fan for a long time but he's nearly 34 and still getting by on the Shane Watsons (potential). He has scores of 16, 0 and 66 so far and I hope that he finishes the series as one of our leading run scorers and proves the selectors right, but I'm not convinced that 66 isn't the outlier. If he ends up averaging 20 over 4 tests will the selectors have still got it right?
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And you need to grasp the concept of context. Marsh is unarguably one of the best batsmen against spin of any of the players in the squad. He was also in good form in his test matches leading in.
There is no reason at all to think that Khawaja, a poor player of spin with questionable form and temperament, would do better. To say otherwise displays a woeful ignorance of the game.
Sure. Regardless of what he scores, he is one of the best players of spin in the squad. Failure or no, he would still have been the best option available.
The Khawaja being a crap player of spin logic is just stupid, Wasn't he given 1 game in Sri Lanka? And the rest of his sub continent scores were all before he actually came on as an international cricketer. Mitch Marsh is garbage btw, would LOVE for somebody to explain how he's possibly in the team?
Usman averages 19 from 4 Tests in Sri Lanka.
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It's academic, Khawaja has not fixed any of the technical issues that made him weak against spin during the last tour. He would fail and it would be predictable.
Marsh is in the team because the selectors want a third pace option, that's all.
He's played 2 sub continent tests in the last 4 years.... He can't improve his record if they won't play him. He was garbage in Sri Lanka but I think it's stupid to drop him and then play a FAR worse Batsman in Mitch Marsh even though he doesn't bowl.
That's such a cop out, Marsh has never been a threatening bowler or Batsman. You can't just say Usman "would fail" He hasn't been given a chance. If Usmans last name were Marsh he would still be playing.
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You asked why Mitchell Marsh was being picked and I told you. I never said I agreed, but unless Khawaja has just learned to bowl fast-medium seamers at good economy then he's never going to displace him in the side.
The only person Khawaja has a reasonable chance of replacing is Shaun Marsh. That seems unlikely at present since Smarsh is actually a proven player against spin and Khawaja is poo.
In Sri Lanka they use the same red ball as here and its no surprise that Sri Lankan batsmen can't face bowlers facing +145 clicks an hr.
I read somewhere that since Shaun Marsh failed he has averaged somewhere around 47 with the bat. I think people have a tinted view off Marsh because of that series. Unlike his brother, shaun has never been kissed on the disk as much and has never been able to settle in the side. Unfortunately he brought it on to him self after the 2011 tour but even know he doesn't have that liberty and is playing each innings as if its his last. Sometimes ensuring a player that their spot is safe for a period of time will go a long way in them performing better. It doesn't always work but in S.Marsh's cause it could lift his confidence as biggest issue is between his shoulders. An Average of 40 in test cricket ain't bad at all for a guy thats always in and out of the test side.
The idea that we "need" a third seamer is just stupid though, Marsh is statistically worse than Shane Watson..... No problem with Shaun being in the side But IMO you can't expect a player to imrpove if you won't give them an opportunity to. So next Summer, SMarsh comes out and Usman goes in because Usman is actually a proven player in Australian conditions and not poo
Demosthenes
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I appreciate what you are saying, but the bloke fails against spin because he has uncorrected technical issues and a real mentality problem. It's not a form issue. There's no reason to think he will magically stop failing just because X amount of time has passed since his last bad tour.
He was a real mess in Sri Lanka, did you watch that series? Looked no different to how he looked against Swann 3 years ago. If he was picked here then it would just be more of the same.
He was a real mess in Sri Lanka, did you watch that series? Looked no different to how he looked against Swann 3 years ago. If he was picked here then it would just be more of the same.
I guess the issue is marsh clearly isn't in the side here as a legit allrounder so you could then say if usman is a horses for courses non selection was marsh actually the next best number 6 in the country?
Why even bring Khawaja on tour anyway? he got dropped in SL came back in and dominated and was our best against SA on tough tracks but if that still wasn't enough to earn him a chance in asia why not just select a frontline batsman they think could bat at 6 and play spin well?
p.s. when does dave warner start also getting seen as a horses for courses pick? He has failed in SL NZ the west indies and india and outside of aus/sa he averages 31 across a much longer career so why is he a must have everywhere we go?
Why even bring Khawaja on tour anyway? he got dropped in SL came back in and dominated and was our best against SA on tough tracks but if that still wasn't enough to earn him a chance in asia why not just select a frontline batsman they think could bat at 6 and play spin well?
p.s. when does dave warner start also getting seen as a horses for courses pick? He has failed in SL NZ the west indies and india and outside of aus/sa he averages 31 across a much longer career so why is he a must have everywhere we go?
I would rather they both play with marsh at 5 or 6 but if we still go the allrounder at 6 then based on horses for courses khawaja would easily get the nod in our conditions, he has a vastly superior record vs pace and in australian conditions.
its time we get rid of an all rounder. Give S.Marsh the security of not being dropped for a series unless he really spuds it up. I think S.marsh would really strengthen the Aussie batting line up in any conditions. Smith and Warner will need to bowl a few over here and there tho.
Warner has a couple of 30s this tour, not droppable at this stage.
Well just pointing out the horses for courses only seems to apply for one batsman, if we were touring say the slow west indies tracks next week warner would be one of the first picked and not on his proven form on those pitches but rather his dynamic home form in fact the only way his spot would ever be in danger is due to a prolonged run of poor home form.
Horses for courses surely can't just apply to one batsmen on one tour, once you drop a form batsmen based on where the next game is being played you then should take that into account for every series and every player.
I should add I am not saying horses for courses is wrong as such as bowlers have to deal with it they are often left out based not on current form but on current conditions(bird being a great example) it’s just that once we go down that path you can’t go back it’s either all batsmen all the time facing the same standards or don’t go down the path in the first place.
It might mean if we go for the allrounder at 6 then S. marsh could even end up our leading run scorer in india but be dropped for the home ashes and some who wanted usman dropped for this tour would say that isn't fair but thats the whole point isn't it? form isn't the deciding factor in getting your spot but rather your expected suitability to conditions and types of bowling you will face is.
Horses for courses surely can't just apply to one batsmen on one tour, once you drop a form batsmen based on where the next game is being played you then should take that into account for every series and every player.
I should add I am not saying horses for courses is wrong as such as bowlers have to deal with it they are often left out based not on current form but on current conditions(bird being a great example) it’s just that once we go down that path you can’t go back it’s either all batsmen all the time facing the same standards or don’t go down the path in the first place.
It might mean if we go for the allrounder at 6 then S. marsh could even end up our leading run scorer in india but be dropped for the home ashes and some who wanted usman dropped for this tour would say that isn't fair but thats the whole point isn't it? form isn't the deciding factor in getting your spot but rather your expected suitability to conditions and types of bowling you will face is.
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