Time up Sheeds?

[Philzsay]

I am undecided what to do with Sheedy from 2008 onwards.

The big question for me is the timing of when we make the decision on Sheeds (either way)? Do we wait till the end of the year? Or do we make a decision half way through the year. Or at another point of time?

It will be very interesting to see how it plays out, particularly if we have another year like the one we just had...

 

[bombre-boy]

Last time sheeds went off the rails, doing too much media, writing books etc etc., his caoaching suffered and the club brought in R.Shaw and T Daniher, this was in 99 (i think). This got his mind back onto coaching the team.....hence 1999/2000 seasons were outstanding.
He has also had the absolute support of the past 2 presidents, particularly McKissok (sp).
Now that this unwavering support is not there, and there has been no major "handbreaks" appointed, he has to rely on results.
Sheeds has been lucky Carton have been so crap and there have been many other distractions taking the heat off sheeds this year.
Peter Jackson has made it perfectly clear that another crappy season will not be tolerated. After all we did lose 14 in a row this year.
I will admit losing 9 games by under 3 goals did make it look like we were a little more competative.
Not sure if we could have won some of those games toward the end of the year, or if we tanked for the draft picks! If it was the latter then it was good coaching to make it look like we had a dip, unlike hawthorn in 04/05.
I think sheeds can still coach, as he showed that he still can produce some new thoughts of what is needed to win a game (remember he was howled down for the international rules team he picked, and look at those results).
I thought his stance on not flooding this year was a good one, but i got sick of the spin doctoring all the time.
If we were to have another bad year, and most seem to think so, and the media do what they normally do, i reckon he will not be re-signed. Finish in the 8 and there will be another 2 years in it for him.
If he keeps Bolts, Henneman and Reynolds then he should be gone regardless...Dont know what he sees in Winderlich either.

 

[Longy413]

Dont know what he sees in Winderlich either.

Pace, foot skills, tenacity?

 

[Daytripper]

What would be a pass mark for Sheeds next season?

For mine, Position - 9th
Wins - 8

We're not Hawthorn.

If we don't make the 8, its a failure.

We've got the right cattle. Collingwood this season and Adelaide the year before showed that teams can rise from the depths of the ladder and be extremely competitive the following season.

We finish 1-6, Sheedy is safe
7-8, his position will be discussed.
9-11, he's in a lot of trouble.
12-16, its all over.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

Pace, foot skills, tenacity?

You've got 2 out of 3.

 

[red+black]

I don't want Sheeds to continue no matter how we do next year. That said, we have ZERO chance of making finals in 2007, so that probably means we won't be offering him a new contract, and that would be well and truly justified.

His position at the club should not be up to him. Whether he wants to continue or not should factor into the decision made by the Board. His current contract will show two bottom 4 finishes, and maybe a 10th at best next year. He will never get that 5th flag he so desperately wants at Essendon, and we all know he won't finish before he has 5 flags and Jock's record.

Move him on when his contract expires.

 

[Longy413]

You've got 2 out of 3.

Actually, I do. Winderlich has all three though.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

Actually, I do. Winderlich has all three though.

Which one are you missing? Winderlich is missing the foot skills.

 

[Longy413]

Which one are you missing? Winderlich is missing the foot skills.

Pace, Winderlich has good foot skills.
Kicks the ball low and hard, not all that different to Mark McVeigh but not quite as well.

 

[red+black]

Last 57 games:

Hawthorn - 17 wins
Essendon - 16.5 wins
Carlton - 15 wins

 

[Darealrath]

Winderlich is missing the foot skills.

I've seen him hit enough targets on the chest when running at full pelt to disagree with that one. Neat skills, and can kick 50+.

 

[Daytripper]

I don't want Sheeds to continue no matter how we do next year. That said, we have ZERO chance of making finals in 2007, so that probably means we won't be offering him a new contract, and that would be well and truly justified.

His position at the club should not be up to him. Whether he wants to continue or not should factor into the decision made by the Board. His current contract will show two bottom 4 finishes, and maybe a 10th at best next year. He will never get that 5th flag he so desperately wants at Essendon, and we all know he won't finish before he has 5 flags and Jock's record.

Move him on when his contract expires.

I'm backing them to finish top 8 and top 4.

They have the classic form line of the underachieving team that improves the following season.
It happens every single year.

 

[Nuts4Bolts]

I've seen him hit enough targets on the chest when running at full pelt to disagree with that one. Neat skills, and can kick 50+.

I'm a big rap for Winderlich but I haven't seen him do that many times at all. Still, he has improved his kicking.

 

[red+black]

I'm backing them to finish top 8 and top 4.

They have the classic form line of the underachieving team that improves the following season.
It happens every single year.

more dollars than sense huh?

 

[Daytripper]

more dollars than sense huh?

we shall see.

 

[Longy413]

We had far too many close games over the last two years to suggest dramatic improvement is definately out of reach.

 

[kelvin_sheedy]

We're not Hawthorn.

If we don't make the 8, its a failure.

We've got the right cattle. Collingwood this season and Adelaide the year before showed that teams can rise from the depths of the ladder and be extremely competitive the following season.

We finish 1-6, Sheedy is safe
7-8, his position will be discussed.
9-11, he's in a lot of trouble.
12-16, its all over.

 

[Darealrath]

more dollars than sense huh?

Seeing as you think we have "zero" chance of making the 8 i assume you'll be giving Daytripper some very generous odds ?

 

[red+black]

We had far too many close games over the last two years to suggest dramatic improvement is definately out of reach.

Most of those losses were not against quality sides. Change them to wins and we're still a mile off from being near the better clubs.

2005 - 4pts Blues, 13 pts Brisbane, 13 pts Hawthorn
2006 - 18 pts Brisbane, 1pt Hawthorn, 2pts Richmond, 7pts Kangaroos, draw Carlton, 18pts Hawthorn, 16 pts Richmond

While we'd like to think we're better than Hawthorn and Richmond for example, I don't think we are, and it's likely we'll lose to those two clubs by a greater margin next year. Carlton, Brisbane and Kangaroos - well if we lose to them next year, we're worse than even I think.

 

[Longy413]

Most of those losses were not against quality sides. Change them to wins and we're still a mile off from being near the better clubs.

2005 - 4pts Blues, 13 pts Brisbane, 13 pts Hawthorn
2006 - 18 pts Brisbane, 1pt Hawthorn, 2pts Richmond, 7pts Kangaroos, draw Carlton, 18pts Hawthorn, 16 pts Richmond

While we'd like to think we're better than Hawthorn and Richmond for example, I don't think we are, and it's likely we'll lose to those two clubs by a greater margin next year. Carlton, Brisbane and Kangaroos - well if we lose to them next year, we're worse than even I think.

Ah, so basically what you are doing is reporting 'facts' to suit yourself.
2005 - Sydney (twice), Port Adelaide, West Coast, Melbourne all under four goals.
2006 - West Coast, St Kilda, Bulldogs (twice), Collingwood all under four goals. Freo and Sydney really weren't that far away either for the majority of the night. We were within striking distance of Sydney when a free from a kick in was paid and it was game over from there.

 

[Crave]

Most of those losses were not against quality sides. Change them to wins and we're still a mile off from being near the better clubs.

2005 - 4pts Blues, 13 pts Brisbane, 13 pts Hawthorn
2006 - 18 pts Brisbane, 1pt Hawthorn, 2pts Richmond, 7pts Kangaroos, draw Carlton, 18pts Hawthorn, 16 pts Richmond

While we'd like to think we're better than Hawthorn and Richmond for example, I don't think we are, and it's likely we'll lose to those two clubs by a greater margin next year. Carlton, Brisbane and Kangaroos - well if we lose to them next year, we're worse than even I think.

Not to mention sides we've stretched for at least 2-3 quarters. Granted, all it took was one quarter to blow us away, however...if we had've hung on and lost by a small margain....scribes and football clubs alike will have us as the team to watch out for next season.
Apart from a few gaps down back and in the middle, we're not really that far off IMO. Ill agree that if the trend continues to decline...Sheeds should be cast aside for some fresh ideas.
In saying that, if he manages to be knocking just outside the 8 by the end of next season....Id like to see him continue till around 09/10

 

[red+black]

True, but I think this close loss myth stems primarily from the Hawthorn and Richmond losses in consecutive weeks. So since then, it's been "We're not far off the pace because we lost some close games." We've also had the occasional close win; we shouldn't be marking down close losses as wins and saying well, we're a 5 win better team than the ladder shows.

The fact is, we're not very good, whether we're losing by whatever margin to whatever team, and we're 3 years from finals action. The majority of teams in the AFL are better than us.

 

[Crave]

Which one are you missing? Winderlich is missing the foot skills.

He's got great foot skills. Most opposition supporters Ive spoken to prior to this trade period have enquired as to his position at the club..specifically if he might be part of a trade. Suggests to me that he's on other radars also.

 

[stanga]

imo sheeds should have been replaced when richmond last came sniffing now he older more stale in his ways of thinking i reckon u missed the boat on harvey and even someone like eades as he was still in tv but could have been bought

 

[Crave]

True, but I think this close loss myth stems primarily from the Hawthorn and Richmond losses in consecutive weeks. So since then, it's been "We're not far off the pace because we lost some close games." We've also had the occasional close win; we shouldn't be marking down close losses as wins and saying well, we're a 5 win better team than the ladder shows.

The fact is, we're not very good, whether we're losing by whatever margin to whatever team, and we're 3 years from finals action. The majority of teams in the AFL are better than us.

And I dont disagree with you either. However, theres nothing to suggest that if all goes well with injuries and the kids we expect to continue developing, do so....we may even find ourselves with a shot at 7th-8th position. I can name at least 6 other clubs whose lists are in worse shape than ours at present.
Carlton (basketcase), Hawthorn (both ends), Geelong (up front and support in the ruck), Kangaroos (where do you begin??), Richmond (lack of matchwinners and fragile backline) and arguably the Doggies (injuries and lack of KPs)
Lloyd back and our forward line is dangerous, some help for Fletcher and we're back in the competition.

See where Im coming from??