Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[jenny61_99]

Tippett gone for nothing + picks gone = guilty.

Please show me the flaw.

No assumptions required.

Guilty of what exactly Carl?

 

[Crow-eater]

And Jenny takes out 23,000!

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

which is why we never prosecute drug dealers...

And who gets a bigger sentence, the dealer on the street or the distributor/maker who makes all the money?

Plea bargains are always obtained for bigger deals and king pins to be brought down. The maker/distributor gets the larger sentence.

You can continue to be as obstinate and obtuse as you like but the Adelaide Football Club are the decision in this deal. They say and get the final say if the deal goes ahead or not, not Kurt Tippett.

 

[jenny61_99]

And Jenny takes out 23,000!

Geez! Didn't even realise it was coming up! LMAO. I really should pay attention to these things.

 

[bjn1960]

Oh, definitely! If Tippett gets de-registered I'll be delighted and if somehow down the track Sydney are found to have tried to exploit a situation they knew was illegal then I'll be over the moon.

But it just doesn't lessen our guilt or penalty, or share the blame in any way.

Tippett's got his own problem to deal with. As does Trigg, as does Harper, as does the club.

I agree - and replacing if with should is more appropriate from my point of view.

 

[Woodie99]

You still don't believe the club did anything wrong? do you?

You believe this is all Kurt Tippett fault, isn't it?

Did he put a gun to the club head and say, sign it? no he didn't.

It's the responsibility of the club to follow the correct pathway in how contracts are agreed upon. They needed to take responsibility and say no. End of story.

Kurt Tippett has no power in how that should have gone. The club should have said, no that is against the rules and we will not participate in that deal. The club (Trigg, Harper, Reid) have a duty of care to the supporter base to follow the rules and regulations set out by the governing body. To use a parent/child analogy, the club needed to be the adult in this environment, do the right thing and say NO. How many children do stupid things because they are allowed to? Don't blame the kid, blame the parent. The kid doesn't know any better.

Yes Kurt Tippett is acting like a clown but he is only doing it because he was allowed to.

You can whinge, bitch, complain and call him every name under the sun but of the club did the right thing in 2009 and not allowed this deal to proceed, this investigation isn't happening. Stop blaming the player for exercising his rights. Blame the club for not exercising theirs and saying NO.

Nice post, IMO I think it could have easily been the club that instigated this agreement, you can just see it happening like, if you stick out this contract we'll let you go to a club of you choise.

 

[jenny61_99]

Nice post, IMO I think it could have easily been the club that instigated this agreement, you can just see it happening like, if you stick out this contract we'll let you go to a club of you choise.

Of course you'd say that. Wouldn't want to think Tippett, his management or his father could possibly do anything like that to the Club that has developed him and looked after him. Wouldn't have anything to do with the very real possibility he could end up at your club would it? Where Daddy and Kurt could screw you exactly like they've screwed us?

 

[Elite Crow]

Guilty of what exactly Carl?

FFS Jenny, we are guilty for having a crap logo

Why don't you have a guess?

On better news channel ten reporting they've said no to Tippett being delisted

 

[bjn1960]

lets face it. we sat out the draft in terms of getting a player who has a decent chance of being any good.

Who says. Siggins and Atkins might like to disagree with you!

 

[Wood_Duck]

Nice post, IMO I think it could have easily been the club that instigated this agreement, you can just see it happening like, if you stick out this contract we'll let you go to a club of you choise.

Ya see this is what shits me. 1+ 1 makes 13 billion

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Doesn't matter how weak the draft was or how low our picks were we have shown an act of contrition for something by giving up a valuable commodity. We have lost commodities for some act. An act that occurred under our current administration plus JR. If you can paint one scenario in which Trigg is not culpable for this loss I will relent and hold judgement, hypothetical of course none of us know what happened we just know what we have already lost and who was in charge when we lost it.

Put it this way if noble had traded pick 20 and pick 54 for pick 62 and 81 would you have been happy?

Pretty sure we would all be asking for him to be sacked for incompetence.

I dont think what we've lost so far is that significant, and it does matter how weak the draft was and how low our picks were. if we had GWS' picks in this draft do you think the decision to pass on the first 2 picks would have been the same? as a contrived example lets say he uses 2 staples instead of one on all his paperwork in contravention of office rules, he has deprived the club of a valuable commodity because of his act, is that a sackable offence? obviously the value of what is lost is a factor.

We gave up something of medium to low value in what looks like an attempt to prevent losing something of high value. i doubt the decision would have been made lightly. Picks 20 and 54 in an average draft arent that valuable. 20 maybe but 54 is well into speculative territory.

I think its plausible that JR did it, Trigg found out and thought hed resolved it with velocity, got back during trade week to find out the tippetts were threatening to sue and went to the AFL with the full story. So in that scenario he's guilty of not notifying the AFL sooner, and the AFC and Edwardson et al think that losing 2 picks is reasonable penance for that oversight which is hardly a sacking offence.

Im not saying thats what happened because i wasnt there, but i think based on what ive read thats as plausible as Trigg made the deal, and conspired to keep it covered up.

 

[SydCrow]

this thread is like a runaway train

in before 24K

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Tippett gone for nothing + picks gone = guilty.

Please show me the flaw.

No assumptions required.

whos guilty? and what specific rule has been breached? and which person or persons are responsible for each specific breach? and to what degree are each guilty party responsible for each specific breach?

Based on assumptions and flawed.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Nice post, IMO I think it could have easily been the club that instigated this agreement, you can just see it happening like, if you stick out this contract we'll let you go to a club of you choise.

I don't care who instigated the deal. The Crows had to be the ones who said NO. End of story.

Now we're looking at the end after the fact, they should just stop trying to pass the blame onto others. They make a wrong and incorrect decision.

Kurt will get his just desserts but I don't blame him for doing what he did. Just as I don't blame le Bron James. Players have to make the best decision in the interest of themselves and their future.

 

[jenny61_99]

FFS Jenny, we are guilty for having a crap logo

Why don't you have a guess?

On better news channel ten reporting they've said no to Tippett being delisted

No but that's the issue. We (the general public) don't KNOW what we are guilty of. Is it draft tampering, cheating, or salary cap breaches? Or is it a case of intent without breaches? That's why some of us are saying let's wait until we hear the whole story.

 

[Woodie99]

Of course you'd say that. Wouldn't want to think Tippett, his management or his father could possibly do anything like that to the Club that has developed him and looked after him. Wouldn't have anything to do with the very real possibility he could end up at your club would it? Where Daddy and Kurt could screw you exactly like they've screwed us?

No, I find it hard to believe that a player could force a club into that sort of deal (club knowing it's outside the rules). IMO both parties are responsible for this & both will be punished, I don't think the punishment will be harsh thou.

 

[Woodie99]

Ya see this is what shits me. 1+ 1 makes 13 billion

None of us know the truth yet, we'll all just making educated/uneducated guess's

 

[SpeciousArgument]

And who gets a bigger sentence, the dealer on the street or the distributor/maker who makes all the money?

Plea bargains are always obtained for bigger deals and king pins to be brought down. The maker/distributor gets the larger sentence.

You can continue to be as obstinate and obtuse as you like but the Adelaide Football Club are the decision in this deal. They say and get the final say if the deal goes ahead or not, not Kurt Tippett.

from what i understand over a certain level distribution is distribution be it 10 kilos or 10 tonnes.

I was under the assumption plea bargains were used for a variety of purposes (like perhaps both sides would like to avoid the costs and collateral damage that would occur should this situation end up in court)

Are you alleging that Tippett was induced into signing the deal by the AFC? So far it appears that two parties agreed to a deal in contravention of the AFL rules. If your wife slept with your best friend is it your best friends fault or your wife's? i would have thought they both did the wrong thing.

 

[jenny61_99]

No, I find it hard to believe that a player could force a club into that sort of deal (club knowing it's outside the rules). IMO both parties are responsible for this & both will be punished, I don't think the punishment will be harsh thou.

Think about it for a minute. Think of your most valuable player in the team. Think of your management knowing he may want out but will only stay if... Players - good ones - pretty much have all the power in these situations. Pay us more, give us a longer contract - that sort of thing. Your management think you have a good chance of winning a premiership in the next year or so and those chances would be sorely dinted if you lose him. What do you do? And we aren't talking just a player here, but a father who has a history of meddling in his children's affairs (apparently).

 

[jenny61_99]

from what i understand over a certain level distribution is distribution be it 10 kilos or 10 tonnes.

I was under the assumption plea bargains were used for a variety of purposes (like perhaps both sides would like to avoid the costs and collateral damage that would occur should this situation end up in court)

Are you alleging that Tippett was induced into signing the deal by the AFC? So far it appears that two parties agreed to a deal in contravention of the AFL rules. If your wife slept with your best friend is it your best friends fault or your wife's? i would have thought they both did the wrong thing.

MUCH better analogy than mine!

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Think about it for a minute. Think of your most valuable player in the team. Think of your management knowing he may want out but will only stay if... Players - good ones - pretty much have all the power in these situations. Pay us more, give us a longer contract - that sort of thing. Your management think you have a good chance of winning a premiership in the next year or so and those chances would be sorely dinted if you lose him. What do you do? And we aren't talking just a player here, but a father who has a history of meddling in his children's affairs (apparently).

You say no.

You say to the player, one individual is never bigger than the team. You point out to this individual that they are not bigger than the clubs ethos, it's culture beliefs, it's well-being or it's professional reputation and you trade him if he doesn't sign a contract that fit's your control.

 

[Woodie99]

Think about it for a minute. Think of your most valuable player in the team. Think of your management knowing he may want out but will only stay if... Players - good ones - pretty much have all the power in these situations. Pay us more, give us a longer contract - that sort of thing. Your management think you have a good chance of winning a premiership in the next year or so and those chances would be sorely dinted if you lose him. What do you do? And we aren't talking just a player here, but a father who has a history of meddling in his children's affairs (apparently).

Sure I see you point, but you have to say it could just as easily been the other way round.

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

I was under the assumption plea bargains were used for a variety of purposes (like perhaps both sides would like to avoid the costs and collateral damage that would occur should this situation end up in court)

You do know, people use a plea bargain to also avoid criminal charges.

Are you alleging that Tippett was induced into signing the deal by the AFC?

No

So far it appears that two parties agreed to a deal in contravention of the AFL rules. If your wife slept with your best friend is it your best friends fault or your wife's? i would have thought they both did the wrong thing.

How is that even relevant?

If I suspected my wife or best friend to be a cheat and sleep with each other, I doubt my relationship with either person would last that long to allow that to happen. I wouldn't allow the warning signs to become huge red flashing lights in front of me before I acted. I would put a stop to it before anything actually happened.

If I have no money, house, cloths or food - I can still have my integrity. The Adelaide Football Club lost it's integrity that day.

I'm saying, the Adelaide Football club should have been stronger in it's conviction during contract negotiations and simply said NO to crossing that line by selling it's football soul.

 

[rayven]

You've worked hard your whole life, started out as a postie and now have 5 newsagencies worth 5 million. You come home early one day and your wifes screwing the pool boy, She says get over it or I leave you and take half plus lawyer costs.

What do you do?

say you put up with it ,but the pool boy has a girlfriend, she finds out and stabs him, is it your fault?

 

[SpeciousArgument]

You do know, people use a plea bargain to also avoid criminal charges.



No



How is that even relevant?

If I suspected my wife or best friend to be a cheat and sleep with each other, I doubt my relationship with either person would last that long to allow that to happen. I wouldn't allow the warning signs to become huge red flashing lights in front of me before I acted. I would put a stop to it before anything actually happened.

If I have no money, house, cloths or food - I can still have my integrity. The Adelaide Football Club lost it's integrity that day.

I'm saying, the Adelaide Football club should have been stronger in it's conviction during contract negotiations and simply said NO to crossing that line by selling it's football soul.

So you agree there are more than 1 use for a plea bargain, we're getting somewhere.

So if Tippett wasnt induced into entering into the contract against his will, why is he not partly responsible for it?

and the wife best friend analogy...

Youre absolutely right, the AFC shouldnt have agreed to this deal. But neither should have Tippett. you cant seperate the two. if they jointly entered into an agreement in contravention of the rules and neither party was coerced they are jointly responsible.