Tippett's Gone - READ RULES BEFORE POSTING

[SpeciousArgument]

My response to this is I truly, absolutely hope Tippett becomes a Swan. So your Club may pay a fortune for doubtful return. So your Club may reap the amazing benefits of having a selfish, greedy player set amongst your strong culture, permeating it's stench like a cancer throughout. So that your premiership players will be thrilled to play along side a bloke that didn't win a premiership with them, but earning twice as much as most of them. Good luck with all that.

This post made me smile

 

[Centrered]

No. I don't think the Crows supporters all think they are clean. I think a very vocal majority on this board are acting in the way I have called them out on though.

And yes I do understand your point about the reigning premiers being able to outbid others on a player. The glib reply is you are blaming us for having good management and impeccable recruiting skills. Well guilty as charged I guess.

In seriousness here is the GF list as put up on our board in this thread. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/what-were-made-of.981131/#post-26455517

Sorry for the format - it came as is.


Adam Goodes - #43 ND
Alex Johnson - #57 ND
Craig Bird - #59 ND
Dan Hannebery - #30 ND
Heath Grundy - #42 Rookie
Jarrad McVeigh - #5 ND
Josh Kennedy - #40 ND (Obtained with McGlynn using picks 39, 46 and 70)
Jude Bolton - #8 ND
Kieren Jack - #57 Rookie
Lewis Jetta - #14 ND
Lewis Roberts-Thomson - #29 ND
Luke Parker - #40 ND
Martin Mattner - #51 Rookie (Obtained using pick 28)
Mike Pyke - #101 ND
Mitch Morton - #44 (Obtained using pick 79)
Nick Malceski - #64 ND
Nick Smith - #15 Rookie
Rhyce Shaw - #18 ND (Obtained along with pick 61 using pick 46)
Ryan O'Keefe - #56 ND
Sam Reid - #38 ND
Shane Mumford - #57 Rookie (Obtained using pick 28)
Ted Richards - #27 ND (Obtained along with pick 55 using picks 19 and 51)

Not so impressive on paper is it? Or rather it is impressive what has been gleaned from those picks.

You go on to categorically say our success is from the COL cap space we get. Look at the above. Perhaps it is recognising talent, moneyballing it, having "culcha", having exceptional coaches and a few true champions.

Juxtapose Carlton vs our list.

You make it sound as though we wandered out and paid huge money for our list a la Tippett. Nothing could be further from the truth. We grew it. And coached it. And cultured it.

Any wonder we have space left in the cap to marquee a player that fills a gap.

Our unfair advantage comes from a good back office in my opinion. A fact that has been long recognised.

I appreciate your comments though.

yaaawwwnnn

 

[Crow-eater]

You know my favourite part in all this? Sydney were adamant no premiership players would be traded, and yet one of them will have to make way for Muppet.

That player is going to feel so happy.

 

[.Shotties.]

You know my favourite part in all this? Sydney were adamant no premiership players would be traded, and yet one of them will have to make way for Muppet.

That player is going to feel so happy.

Rotations through the first 22 aren't the same as a player being traded.

 

[fabs33]

This is the part that has the AFL in a bind, I really honestly believe the AFL aren't sure the club broke any rules mainly becuase no money changed hands and it didn't specify a period in which the money would be paid, in effect the Crows could have disclosed it if they needed to make any payments

I reckon we will get pinged with Adrian Andersons "spirit of the law" or something equally as ridiculous.

Would it be illegal for us to agree to renegotiate his contract to make up for a shortfall in independent third party deals, having accounted for the possibility by leaving cap space available?

 

[fabs33]

Rotations through the first 22 aren't the same as a player being traded.

I think the implication is that someone will have to exit the 22 for Tippett to be included, which is similar to having them leave the club anyway. Not much difference between being in the stands or at another club, at least from your club's perspective.

 

[Schulzycrow]

Tipps only one good knock away from goneski anyway...guess if he has to only play 20 games a season to get his extra moola he can avoid the Adelaide games.

Mark it, he will put something in place to make sure he ends up at Sydney, for nothing. Adelaide do not delist the spud, do not make him a free agent.

 

[.Shotties.]

I think the implication is that someone will have to exit the 22 for Tippett to be included, which is similar to having them leave the club anyway.

Not really, given the 22 is fluid and changed pretty much every week by a number of factors.

 

[Crow-eater]

Tipps only one good knock away from goneski anyway...guess if he has to only play 20 games a season to get his extra moola he can avoid the Adelaide games.

Mark it, he will put something in place to make sure he ends up at Sydney, for nothing. Adelaide do not delist the spud, do not make him a free agent.

We aren't allowed to. We have been barred by the AFL from delisting him. The only way he can get to Sydney is PSD

 

[MarkP]

I can spot at least three points of contention in the part I bolded.

1. We agreed to trade him for a second round pick. Our club is saying that we agreed to a minimum of a second round pick, probably a stupid thing to do because another club can take advantage of this if they're aware of the agreement's existence, still stupid but not illegal as far as I'm aware of.

2. That we would trade him to the club of his choice. At various times the club stated that we only agreed to trade him to a club where his home is, which isn't Sydney.

3. We paid him outside the cap. We haven't even paid him anything illegal, inside the cap or out. The issue seems to be centred around the level of our involvement in third party deals, but as has been displayed with other cases (Judd and Selwood), the AFL's rules regarding these matters are very grey.

Doesn't exactly help lend one's other points credence.

Splitting hairs. All of it. I could have replied to any of the others rejoinders with the same.

My reply was a glib retort to a made up scenario remember. Don't let that stop you though.

 

[baldandbroke]

Rotations through the first 22 aren't the same as a player being traded.

I'm guessing KT is hoping that he doesnt get rotated too often during the season - so he can get his 20 games per year.

Sydney, on the other hand, only have to drop him for a certain number of games in any year to void a part of KT's contract that no other club would sign up for.

Lucky Sydney are above that sort of gutter draft manipulation, we can rest knowing that this type of underhanded thinking would NEVER EVER happen at the "MiGhtY Bl00ds".

 

[fabs33]

Not really, given the 22 is fluid and changed pretty much every week by a number of factors.

That's only in reference to a specific player. If Tippett comes in it's one less spot in the team which is equivalent to a player, in other words every week Tippett plays, one of your premiership players won't.

 

[huludicidal]

Nope.

Would we have made a deal on the back of an envelope to trade him for a second rounder to where he wanted to go and paid him outside of the cap and wrote it all down.

No.

Would Adelaide....oh wait.

Why are you projecting and saying "what if". Making up pretends scenarios doesn't mean a thing. Building strawmen is pointless. Chewbacca defences are fun but don't mean anything.

You are simply proving over and over again my original point.

Adelaide agreed to trade him to a queensland club, for a MINIMUM of a second rounder. There's a huge difference, which a flog like you wouldn't understand.

does it make you feel like a real man when you come onto other clubs boards and write inaccurate inflammatory rubbish? get the **** off here. if your club had offered a fair trade you'd have skurt prancing around in swans colours in preseason training right now instead of whinging about what could have been. instead, you offered junk, you didn't land the big fish, and as a result tippett will be either deregistered or playing for GWS in 2013 and beyond, and now you're trying to belittle opposition fans on THEIR board.

Oh, and for the record, there has never been and will never be a scenario in any sport where someone is 'worth' being the highest paid player at a club, while only being 'worth' pick 23 plus a spud in a trade. unless of course the club making such an offer were illegally trying to use an illegal clause to illegally trade for said player. oh wait, sydney didn't know about the clause and they were offering fair market value.

**** OFF.

 

[.Shotties.]

in other words every week Tippett plays, one of your premiership players won't.

What if two premiership players are injured?

 

[Mego Red]

I not

Nope.

Would we have made a deal on the back of an envelope to trade him for a second rounder to where he wanted to go and paid him outside of the cap and wrote it all down.

No.

Would Adelaide....oh wait.

Why are you projecting and saying "what if". Making up pretends scenarios doesn't mean a thing. Building strawmen is pointless. Chewbacca defences are fun but don't mean anything.

You are simply proving over and over again my original point.

I notice you never answered my post, which shot holes in your inadequate thinking.

Trade him for a MINIMUM of a a second rounder. There's one point you're too ignorant to understand.

Paid him outside of the cap? Completely wrong. Read a paper sometime.

You should either lift your game or turn the computer off.

 

[jenny61_99]

We aren't allowed to. We have been barred by the AFL from delisting him. The only way he can get to Sydney is PSD

I'm thinking that has something to do with the rule that unless he's a delisted player, he cannot nominate for the PSD, unless he had already nominated and been a part of (but not selected in) the national draft.

 

[Emperoar]

Fairytale scenario - Crows vs Swans GF 2013. Imagine.

 

[Crow-eater]

I'm thinking that has something to do with the rule that unless he's a delisted player, he cannot nominate for the PSD, unless he had already nominated and been a part of (but not selected in) the national draft.

Possibly. I wouldn't know how the AFL's mind works on these things. All I know is since this all came out we are forbidden from delisting him, he can only delist himself.

 

[Crow-eater]

Fairytale scenario - Crows vs Swans GF 2013. Imagine.

And Muppet is enjoying his wooden spoon with GWS.

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Nope.

Would we have made a deal on the back of an envelope to trade him for a second rounder to where he wanted to go and paid him outside of the cap and wrote it all down.

No.

Would Adelaide....oh wait.

Why are you projecting and saying "what if". Making up pretends scenarios doesn't mean a thing. Building strawmen is pointless. Chewbacca defences are fun but don't mean anything.

You are simply proving over and over again my original point.

I assume you have proof of this or youre just speculating. Adelaide fans believed this until a month ago, maybe yours is coming.

 

[jenny61_99]

Adelaide agreed to trade him to a queensland club, for a MINIMUM of a second rounder. There's a huge difference, which a flog like you wouldn't understand.

does it make you feel like a real man when you come onto other clubs boards and write inaccurate inflammatory rubbish? get the **** off here. if your club had offered a fair trade you'd have skurt prancing around in swans colours in preseason training right now instead of whinging about what could have been. instead, you offered junk, you didn't land the big fish, and as a result tippett will be either deregistered or playing for GWS in 2013 and beyond, and now you're trying to belittle opposition fans on THEIR board.

Oh, and for the record, there has never been and will never be a scenario in any sport where someone is 'worth' being the highest paid player at a club, while only being 'worth' pick 23 plus a spud in a trade. unless of course the club making such an offer were illegally trying to use an illegal clause to illegally trade for said player. oh wait, sydney didn't know about the clause and they were offering fair market value.

**** OFF.

No, we ASSUMED he wanted trading to a QLD Club. Turns out "home" means different things to different people. In any case, Tippett will now most likely end up at Sydney - by being "forced" to enter the PSD he can not only nominate his $$ value, he can nominate his length of contract as well. He couldn't have done that in the National Draft. So the AFL is actually doing him a favour by not letting him nominate ahead of the ND.

It's very doubtful that GWS would take on the value and conditions of the Sydney offer. In fact, I think they'd be foolish to. So Swan bound he is likely to be. Serves them right.

Your parting gesture however, is spot on.

 

[Emperoar]

And Muppet is enjoying his wooden spoon with GWS.

I was going for Muppet having the final kick 15m out to decide the game and shanks it but your scenario is just as good

 

[SpeciousArgument]

Splitting hairs. All of it. I could have replied to any of the others rejoinders with the same.

My reply was a glib retort to a made up scenario remember. Don't let that stop you though.

why are you still here if not to troll? youve made your point and seem confident that it stands on its merits, now go away

 

[headache1]

No, we ASSUMED he wanted trading to a QLD Club. Turns out "home" means different things to different people. In any case, Tippett will now most likely end up at Sydney - by being "forced" to enter the PSD he can not only nominate his $$ value, he can nominate his length of contract as well. He couldn't have done that in the National Draft. So the AFL is actually doing him a favour by not letting him nominate ahead of the ND.

It's very doubtful that GWS would take on the value and conditions of the Sydney offer. In fact, I think they'd be foolish to. So Swan bound he is likely to be. Serves them right.

Your parting gesture however, is spot on.

I think you can nominate your $ value and length of contract in either draft, as long as you're not a new player to the AFL system.

I'm not so sure GWS will pass on him though. I could be wrong, but I don't think you can nominate an optional extension as part of your contract conditions.

 

[MarkP]

Sydney are very good at developing late draft picks/other clubs discards you get cheaply into very good team orientated Footballers. Even Goodes who is a star, is a team first player.

Agree 100% mate. Yes Goodes is those once in a generation type guys that is elite personally and on a team basis as well. He will be missed.

Which is why I am puzzled you want to make Tippet the highest paid player on list. Sure you guys might fix his kicking and teach him to think like a footballer. He may even become the player we thought he would after his 2009 season.

HA!! So are Swans supporters to a certain degree but there is this.

You can't teach someone who is not 202 cm and 100 kgs and is innately skilled to play at that height and weight. The Swans were lacking key forwards this year and had a made up forward line of LRT and Goodes supporting Reid. The mids like Jetta & Kennedy contributed the goals. He is filling a hole and that second ruck position as well. That is why, in my opinion they chased him hard with the offer. It is the "hole" in our side.

Makes logical sense to strengthen the weakest part of the ground.

But going by past recruiting and the success rate, you could have done that with Chris Dawes as well. Similar player type to Tip, but a lot cheaper.

Funny you mention him. He was on my mind. Perhaps they did ask the question and were rejected. Not being a recruiter or in any type of position of knowledge with the club I have no idea how they rate people. I guess the thing is with our recruiting success rate we never know about the players they considered and then said no to for whatever reason.

/shrug - hard call isn't it. Are the Swans great recruiters because of who the get or are they exceptional geniuses becasue of who they reject?

As an aside what a lot of people don't know is Bradshaw was actually being paid this year. He was in our cap. It was not a token either. Factor that into the money talk.

I wonder how many Sydney players are paid below their market value, knowing that by staying together they will have success. I then wonder how they feel about Tip becoming the highest paid player in the club. I also wonder about the "fishbowl" of expectation placed on Tip by guys like Jude Bolton and Adam Goodes. And what they will think anytime he shanks a kick into the post after all their hard work to get him the ball...........

Who knows. Same thing was said of Morton regarding expectations. You should look at the website of the Swans and see his post season interview. Hard to reconcile the humble man with the nightmare kid we supposedly inherited (using hyperbole to make a point). Moving clubs for money is fine. This is simply work. As fans we can get all worked up over it but who really cares? Would you deny a person a chance to make extra bucks?

Contracts come and go. Will players get jealous? I guess so, that is human nature but the market will still sort out what players are worth to an organisation at any one time.

I am not quite sure what you mean about the "fishbowl" of expectation to be honest. Are you saying he will under extra pressure to perform becasue of his wage? If so I guess that is right but really that happens every year where the top draft picks are marked hard and the marquee signings are as well.