Mystery Titanic Tourist Submarine Lost * Found as Debris

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Its not crazy to imagine that considering there were a few hardcore adventurers on the expedition there may have been some titanium screws and plates etc. Involved making some sort of ID possible, morbid I know.
 

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Kurve said:
Sad if they knew for a 18 full minutes there was a big problem and even on releasing the ballast, were having trouble ascending. Some of the comments are interesting, one poster suggests someone from OceanGate crew is leaking.
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Just read it. Horrifying if it is accurate. And literally there are no options that far under water.

If it's accurate sounds like their descent rate was excessive compared to normal. Could an excessive descent rate induce premature hull failure?
 
Zidane98 said:
Just read it. Horrifying if it is accurate. And literally there are no options that far under water.

If it's accurate sounds like their descent rate was excessive compared to normal. Could an excessive descent rate induce premature hull failure?
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Not sure it was actually descending given it's suggested that releasing the ballast and the frame didn't help with the ascent. Could it have actually been sinking?
 
Kurve said:
Not sure it was actually descending given it's suggested that releasing the ballast and the frame didn't help with the ascent. Could it have actually been sinking?
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Before that they were descending much faster than normal. Believe the calculations show when they were at 1934 metres they should have been at 1200m (assuming this is a real transcript)


One thing I must say is if this transcript is real then those on the ship must have known the sub was gone when they received no response 2 mins after last communications.
 
A long and very detailed article about the Titan from the Atlantic. Worth a read. It was bound to fail.
www.newyorker.com

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
The bloody thing was already showing signs of delamination before it was launched.

'To assess the carbon-fibre hull, Lochridge examined a small cross-section of material. He found that it had “very visible signs of delamination and porosity”—it seemed possible that, after repeated dives, it would come apart. He shone a light at the sample from behind, and photographed beams streaming through splits in the midsection in a disturbing, irregular pattern. The only safe way to dive, Lochridge concluded, was to first carry out a full scan of the hull.'

....Lochridge sent his report to Rush, Nissen, and other members of the OceanGate leadership. “Verbal communication of the key items I have addressed in my attached document have been dismissed on several occasions, so I feel now I must make this report so there is an official record in place,” he wrote. “Until suitable corrective actions are in place and closed out, Cyclops 2 (Titan) should not be manned during any of the upcoming trials.”

Rush was furious; he called a meeting that afternoon, and recorded it on his phone. For the next two hours, the OceanGate leadership insisted that no hull testing was necessary—an acoustic monitoring system, to detect fraying fibres, would serve in its place. According to the company, the system would alert the pilot to the possibility of catastrophic failure “with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface.” But, in a court filing, Lochridge’s lawyer wrote, “this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail—often milliseconds before an implosion—and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull.” A former senior employee who was present at the meeting told me, “We didn’t even have a baseline. We didn’t know what it would sound like if something went wrong.”

OceanGate’s lawyer wrote, “The parties found themselves at an impasse—Mr. Lochridge was not, and specifically stated that he could not be made comfortable with OceanGate’s testing protocol, while Mr. Rush was unwilling to change the company’s plans.”

The meeting ended in Lochridge’s firing.'
 

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Zidane98 said:
One thing I must say is if this transcript is real then those on the ship must have known the sub was gone when they received no response 2 mins after last communications.
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Assuming it is real then coupled with the James Cameron revelation of hydrophones and loss of transponder tracking would have left almost no doubt that something catastrophic happened.
Instead we got a week of media hyped search and rescue that coincidentally ends a couple hours after the "oxygen ran out" by finding the sub exactly where you'd expect it to be.
This thread almost needs to be moved to the conspiracy section!
 
CD Xbow said:
A long and very detailed article about the Titan from the Atlantic. Worth a read. It was bound to fail.
www.newyorker.com

The Titan Submersible Was “An Accident Waiting to Happen”

Interviews and e-mails with expedition leaders and employees reveal how OceanGate ignored desperate warnings from inside and outside the company. “It’s a lemon,” one wrote.
www.newyorker.com www.newyorker.com
The bloody thing was already showing signs of delamination before it was launched.

'To assess the carbon-fibre hull, Lochridge examined a small cross-section of material. He found that it had “very visible signs of delamination and porosity”—it seemed possible that, after repeated dives, it would come apart. He shone a light at the sample from behind, and photographed beams streaming through splits in the midsection in a disturbing, irregular pattern. The only safe way to dive, Lochridge concluded, was to first carry out a full scan of the hull.'

....Lochridge sent his report to Rush, Nissen, and other members of the OceanGate leadership. “Verbal communication of the key items I have addressed in my attached document have been dismissed on several occasions, so I feel now I must make this report so there is an official record in place,” he wrote. “Until suitable corrective actions are in place and closed out, Cyclops 2 (Titan) should not be manned during any of the upcoming trials.”

Rush was furious; he called a meeting that afternoon, and recorded it on his phone. For the next two hours, the OceanGate leadership insisted that no hull testing was necessary—an acoustic monitoring system, to detect fraying fibres, would serve in its place. According to the company, the system would alert the pilot to the possibility of catastrophic failure “with enough time to arrest the descent and safely return to surface.” But, in a court filing, Lochridge’s lawyer wrote, “this type of acoustic analysis would only show when a component is about to fail—often milliseconds before an implosion—and would not detect any existing flaws prior to putting pressure onto the hull.” A former senior employee who was present at the meeting told me, “We didn’t even have a baseline. We didn’t know what it would sound like if something went wrong.”

OceanGate’s lawyer wrote, “The parties found themselves at an impasse—Mr. Lochridge was not, and specifically stated that he could not be made comfortable with OceanGate’s testing protocol, while Mr. Rush was unwilling to change the company’s plans.”

The meeting ended in Lochridge’s firing.'
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It sounds the the CFRP pressure cylinder suffered from cyclic fatigue. There really should have been a complete x-ray and knock test inspection of the composite materials after maybe 4-5 dives at most.

When all is said an done the pressure cylinder probably was only ever good for a limited number of cycles. if they replaced the CFRP cylinder every 4-5 dives they would have been fine but that is huge $$$$$$$$ and probably just easier to scrap the vehicle then transfer all the componentry from the existing submersible to a brand new pressure cylinder. Also, it seemed that they either had too much ballast onboard or they were deliberately diving at a faster descent rate than normal so they could have longer to spend at the wreck site. This may have been the straw that broke the back of an already compromised CFRP structure with the pressure on the hull changing too quickly.


Or they could have just accepted the submersible had a lifespan of 5 cycles and that was it - no exceptions. But that again comes down to $$$$$ but really if you are descending to Titanic wreck depths that should be of absolutely no relevance. There has never been a deep sea submersible accident in pretty much 50 years of operation until these cowboys came along.


Guess the 5 in the sub will have a Guinness world record in terms of nobody has died at a deeper point on earth than they have.
 
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I wonder if authorities didn’t immediately reveal they would have perished because they wanted to rule out russian or chinese interference?
 
Zidane98 said:
It sounds the the CFRP pressure cylinder suffered from cyclic fatigue. There really should have been a complete x-ray and knock test inspection of the composite materials after maybe 4-5 dives at most.

When all is said an done the pressure cylinder probably was only ever good for a limited number of cycles. if they replaced the CFRP cylinder every 4-5 dives they would have been fine but that is huge $$$$$$$$ and probably just easier to scrap the vehicle then transfer all the componentry from the existing submersible to a brand new pressure cylinder. Also, it seemed that they either had too much ballast onboard or they were deliberately diving at a faster descent rate than normal so they could have longer to spend at the wreck site. This may have been the straw that broke the back of an already compromised CFRP structure with the pressure on the hull changing too quickly.


Or they could have just accepted the submersible had a lifespan of 5 cycles and that was it - no exceptions. But that again comes down to $$$$$ but really if you are descending to Titanic wreck depths that should be of absolutely no relevance. There has never been a deep sea submersible accident in pretty much 50 years of operation until these cowboys came along.


Guess the 5 in the sub will have a Guinness world record in terms of nobody has died at a deeper point on earth than they have.
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Yes, it is almost certainly related to dive cycles and some failure related to that, and the measures you mention may have mitigated against the disaster. I know hull wear on military subs is related to the number of dives rather that the depth or time spent at depth. It's why nuclear submarines tend to have longer hull lives. I don't understand at all where the titanium fits in, Rush mentions it without being explicit how it's used. Is in sandwiched in layers with the CFRP in pressure hull? Is titanium used as a thread within the carbon fibre? Or does it refer to fittings on the hull made of titanium?
 
CD Xbow said:
Yes, it is almost certainly related to dive cycles and some failure related to that, and the measures you mention may have mitigated against the disaster. I know hull wear on military subs is related to the number of dives rather that the depth or time spent at depth. It's why nuclear submarines tend to have longer hull lives. I don't understand at all where the titanium fits in, Rush mentions it without being explicit how it's used. Is in sandwiched in layers with the CFRP in pressure hull? Is titanium used as a thread within the carbon fibre? Or does it refer to fittings on the hull made of titanium?
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The hemispherical end caps were both titanium. Only one was visible. I think the cylindrical hull was 127mm thick pure carbon fibre. I didn't think titanium could be integrated into that and be expected to provide extra strength.

Clearly the entire pressure hull should've been titanium, in the shape of a perfect sphere, like Alvin and friends.
 
Werewolf said:
The hemispherical end caps were both titanium. Only one was visible. I think the cylindrical hull was 127mm thick pure carbon fibre. I didn't think titanium could be integrated into that and be expected to provide extra strength.

Clearly the entire pressure hull should've been titanium, in the shape of a perfect sphere, like Alvin and friends.
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Thanks for that. I hadn't seen any actual description, hence the speculation. So a 12.7 cm thickness of sub-standard (pardon the pun) Boeing carbon is fashioned into a cylinder then the hemispheric titanium ends are joined to the cylinder. Do you know how? I suspect the joins could be a problem as well with the materials behaving increasing differently after repeated dives.
 
CD Xbow said:
Thanks for that. I hadn't seen any actual description, hence the speculation. So a 12.7 cm thickness of sub-standard (pardon the pun) Boeing carbon is fashioned into a cylinder then the hemispheric titanium ends are joined to the cylinder. Do you know how? I suspect the joins could be a problem as well with the materials behaving increasing differently after repeated dives.
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Would you believe the titanium ends were glued on?
Because that is 100% the truth.
 
CD Xbow said:
Really!
Sounds like they were trying to maximise the number of points of potential failure.
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Yeh if you look around you can find video of them gluing it together, they're super nervous as they only had one chance to get it right.

As far as I can tell it was whacked together in an open air factory environment and left to cure as is, just like the spun carbon fibre hull was.
 
Awakening said:
I wonder if authorities didn’t immediately reveal they would have perished because they wanted to rule out russian or chinese interference?
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Until the wreckage was found they were only 99% sure. Russian or Chinese interference a non issue here.
 
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