Strategy Trade and List management Thread Part 6 (opposition supporters - READ posting rules before posting)

[Bald]

I think there needs to be some factor of the risk with signing any contract built into it. A contract, particularly a multi-year deal, carries uncertainty including form, player behaviour and injury risk.

A player can be badly injured, to the extent that their playing career is impacted significantly, without being formally medically retired - meaning the line between a medical retirement and a player driven retirement or substantially drop in output is too large when it comes to salary cap if you remove it all for a medical retirement.

I'm not sure what the perfect split would be, but in my mind there needs to be some % of the remaining contract carried by the club themselves within the cap.

Completely understand the view and honestly I've gone a bit back and forth with where I stand. Ultimately, I just think the clubs are paying the players to play - if they've been ruled out due to circumstances out of their control, then that goes beyond what I think is a reasonable risk.

Especially when you look at young O'Driscoll, it was one hit, one collision and one contest.

 

[adogsfan5]

Looks like a deal has been given to Buss… now we wait.

 

[Struggle]

Bailey Smith on a 3 year deal is bizarre given he's a free agent in 2 years.

Scrimshaw did the same for Hawthorn. I wonder what the thinking is.

Extra year of security, maybe the club bumps up the offer higher over 3 than they're giving for 2 years.
it's not like they lose free agency when they are out of contract the year later

 

[Bald]

Extra year of security, maybe the club bumps up the offer higher over 3 than they're giving for 2 years.
it's not like they lose free agency when they are out of contract the year later

That's actually a great point. Not sure why I didn't consider that.

 

[Sentinel]

Completely understand the view and honestly I've gone a bit back and forth with where I stand. Ultimately, I just think the clubs are paying the players to play - if they've been ruled out due to circumstances out of their control, then that goes beyond what I think is a reasonable risk.

Especially when you look at young O'Driscoll, it was one hit, one collision and one contest.

Yeah its a tricky one. I think what sways my opinion in the other direction to you is that injury and injury risk is (unfortunately) a part of football, and a career can be over from injury (ie circumstances out of a player's control) without the line being drawn officially. I do get of course that if a player retires through injury that's still 'technically' in their control, compared to one where a concussion panel draws the line.

Two other factors I consider:
1. The example of Melbourne who signed Brayshaw on a long term deal after he'd already had multiple concussions. If it were the case for a player with dodgy knees about to give way, you sign a player for 6 years and they do another retirement worthy ACL - 1 gets fully included in the cap, the other gets fully excluded?
2. Excluding medical retirements fully from the salary cap could potentially incentivise clubs to angle towards such retirements if they held undesirable contracts. I'm not sure how a club could influence that, but it must be within the realms of possibilities.

There is no black and white answer to what is best.

 

[hatescaptcha]

Would be a blow if Buss doesn’t re-sign, he is starting to look really good and exactly what we need.

Perhaps his tune will change if he plays some games in the senior team…


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[Dog 36]

Would be a blow if Buss doesn’t re-sign, he is starting to look really good and exactly what we need.

Perhaps his tune will change if he plays some games in the senior team…


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Hope so as some ITK say he’s gone already

Can’t afford to lose Buss types as we are thin at that part of ground and seems we have put time into Buss and been patient with him and he is developing nicely

 

[Hobdog]

Hope so as some ITK say he’s gone already

Can’t afford to lose Buss types as we are thin at that part of ground and seems we have put time into Buss and been patient with him and he is developing nicely

Yep, two years we could have been putting development into a high pick mid.


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[Munnez]

Hope so as some ITK say he’s gone already

Can’t afford to lose Buss types as we are thin at that part of ground and seems we have put time into Buss and been patient with him and he is developing nicely

Particicularly with our inability to attract young talent with more than just a couple of years left. To lose a potentially quality young KPD with 2 years development would be a big blow.
If that's how it pans out have to hope that Croft can become a gun KPD. Personally hope Buss can be convinced that there is a big role for him at the Dogs. In the not too distant future.

 

[hatescaptcha]

On the flip side - We should definitely be in the ear of Konstanty. Pressure forward.


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[MaxiBont]

The thought of Libba not playing another game for the Dogs keeps me up at night.

 

[adogsfan5]

If Baz stays, god it’s going to be hilarious (oppo teams and media).

 

[adogsfan5]

The thought of Libba not playing another game for the Dogs keeps me up at night.

Yep, ultra upsetting mate. Deserves a lap of honour.

 

[DueWest]

Who cares about the answer to those questions? You think Sanders output to this point justifies that trade relative to the output of a Tholstrup/Green/Leake/Wilson? Just 6 months ahead of the draft?

At the end of the day, if one was to make a choice between Sanders+Croft, or Pick 13+Croft+2024 Pick 6-10, the vast majority would pick the latter in a heartbeat.

Agree, Wilson Croft plus pick 8 this year, albeit I think Sanders will be a gun and I hope I eat my words

My issue with dogs and trading is we always get an idea in our head and get rolled over in the trade negotiations.

 

[scooter600x]

Dale Finucane had several concussions when he was playing with Storm. Cronulla came in and offered him a four year deal (he was already 29yo). Storm wouldn't give him four years with his history so he went to Cronulla.

2 and a bit years later he's medically retired and Cronulla want salary cap relief. They knew his history when they signed him, the longer deal was why he left, now they can't cry about being caught with the rest of his contract.

 

[Ash1337]

Agree, Wilson Croft plus pick 8 this year, albeit I think Sanders will be a gun and I hope I eat my words

My issue with dogs and trading is we always get an idea in our head and get rolled over in the trade negotiations.

Croft would have definitely been bid on before 13. GWS took crows pick before dogs pick and if dogs had held onto their pick would have bidded on Croft. GWS took Gothard that pick which wasn't rated that high in rankings next to Croft. I also don't doubt Essendon bidding on Croft like they did taking Lual before dogs could start matching bids.

 

[Northernsoul74]

On the flip side - We should definitely be in the ear of Konstanty. Pressure forward.


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Wasn’t there a knock on his pace in his draft year?

 

[DueWest]

Croft would have definitely been bid on before 13. GWS took crows pick before dogs pick and if dogs had held onto their pick would have bidded on Croft. GWS took Gothard that pick which wasn't rated that high in rankings next to Croft. I also don't doubt Essendon bidding on Croft like they did taking Lual before dogs could start matching bids.

Croft went at 15 he was always going at 15.

I agree with trading our first but the price we paid was too high, like always we at crap at trading / negotiating

 

[Ash1337]

Croft went at 15 he was always going at 15.

I agree with trading our first but the price we paid was too high, like always we at crap at trading / negotiating

15 isn't that far from 13. It would have painted a target on the dogs to keep it.

 

[Doggies_13]

Bailey Smith on a 3 year deal is bizarre given he's a free agent in 2 years.

Scrimshaw did the same for Hawthorn. I wonder what the thinking is.

Well 3 years would be 2025,2026,2027, out of contract and free agent in the 2027 off season with Tasmania coming in, in 2028 so might be some big cash around and more leverage for better deals

 

[goodcop badcop]

Wasn’t there a knock on his pace in his draft year?

He isn't super quick, certainly is above average for pace with pretty good agility. His ball use and not hitting the scoreboard enough was my main knock on him. Pressure was elite though. From memory was averaging around 6 tackles a game which is through the roof for a small forward/mid.

 

[_Cerberus_]

On the flip side - We should definitely be in the ear of Konstanty. Pressure forward.


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Sydney along with Geelong are the two best teams in the league in terms of development, or getting better out of fringe players. I'd be interested to how come he hasn't broken into a team that has injury prone small forwards? How has he been performing in the ressies? Etc.

Not exactly expecting us to do better than the Swans at developing given our poor recent history of trade ins. But happy to give him a shot if he has shown something.

Outside of Weightman, and West who was originally a mid, we haven't been able to find impactful small forwards since 2016, and even that team was midfielders turned forwards. Has small forward now over taken talls as our new heel? Cannot remember the last genuine gun winger we have had either. Probably all the way back in the Eade era.

 

[Doggy]

Sydney along with Geelong are the two best teams in the league in terms of development, or getting better out of fringe players. I'd be interested to how come he hasn't broken into a team that has injury prone small forwards? How has he been performing in the ressies? Etc.

Not exactly expecting us to do better than the Swans at developing given our poor recent history of trade ins. But happy to give him a shot if he has shown something.

Outside of Weightman, and West who was originally a mid, we haven't been able to find impactful small forwards since 2016, and even that team was midfielders turned forwards. Has small forward now over taken talls as our new heel? Cannot remember the last genuine gun winger we have had either. Probably all the way back in the Eade era.

Hunter went alright

 

[BulldogMuscle]

Is this “keeping Baz meter” your feelings towards likeliness or just what you want to happen? Desperately hoping likeliness

Unless otherwise stated the information I post in this thread is coming from a very active player manager.

 

[_Cerberus_]

Hunter went alright

Forgot about him already haha. Yeah he was solid, but did have his weak spots like all players. But I mean more on the pacey, damaging type. Can't remember the last winger we had that would burn teams with their legs and impact the scoreboard. We normally have accumulators or role players there, than true wingers.