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List Mgmt. Trade & Free Agency 2025

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Meteoric Rise said:
Massimo had a fantastic 2024 when his team was firing and the opposition didn't know much about him. We have not seen anywhere near that level from Ralphsmith yet.

But in the current season, Ralphsmith is doing better, and even moreso when you consider he is playing in a much weaker team.

Here are their stats for 2025, Hugo on the left, Massimo on the right:

Disposals - 14 v 18
Efficiency - 66% v 69%
Inside 50 - 3 v 2.9
Rebound 50 - 1.3 v 2.2(Massimo has played a little bit at Half Back)
Disposals per clanger - 5.3 v 8.5
Cotested Possessions - 5.2 v 5.2
Handball Receives - 4.4 v 8.8
Intercept Marks - 0.3 v 0.6
Goals & Behinds - 0.6 & 0.3 v 0.2 & 0.4
Goal Assists - 0.3 v 0.5
Score Involvement % - 18.8 v 18
Score Launch - 0.8 v 1.1

So to this point, this is what you are seeing that has you thinking Massimo is ahead. He gets more of the ball, albeit all through handball receives and more skewed to easier d50 ball. They are equal for contested possessions, Hugo is ahead for scoring, but Massimo ahead for score launches. Massimo is making fewer errors with the ball. Massimo is appearing more often with the ball on your TV screen.

So what is it you are not seeing that could cause Hugo to be rating higher this year?

Tackles - 2.7 v 1.8
Pressure Acts - 15 v 10.6
Spoils - 1.7 v 0.5
1%ers - 2.2 v 0.6

A perfect example of why the player ratings is better at judging player performance within a defined period than your eyes or mine. That is a huge difference in defensive acts & 1%ers.
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Have you noramalised these stats per 100 minutes since Hugo plays about 7% more total game time?
 
Player ratings are the best statistical guide, no doubt. But you can't use them as a definitive guide.

For example Daniel Turner is rated as a better KPD than Sam Taylor this season.
Jack Darling ahead of Nick Larkey
George Hewett ahead of Nick Daicos
Mitch McGovern ahead of Nick Vlastuin
Orazio Fantasia ahead of Bobby Hill

etc etc etc.
 

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tigs2010 said:
Who would you be willing to give it to? Always looking for a team that overrates themselves. Bombers, Saints, maybe Blues outside the obviously shit teams who would be more reluctant.
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I guess the starting point is what pick next year = pick 4 this year?

If it’s 10, then the field of potentials is obv wider. Happy to swap 4 for a second this year and the 2026 first of any current bottom 8 team but gee I’d LOVE to have an Essendon death riding season. I don’t mind North so this year is something I’d rather not repeat
 
UpTheGutz said:
I guess the starting point is what pick next year = pick 4 this year?

If it’s 10, then the field of potentials is obv wider. Happy to swap 4 for a second this year and the 2026 first of any current bottom 8 team but gee I’d LOVE to have an Essendon death riding season. I don’t mind North so this year is something I’d rather not repeat
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North will climb soon (probably next year) so wouldn't want to do them. Essendon and Saints seem like teams that would expect to make finals but probably won't. They're thr ideal candidates that would be expecting to give a pick 10+ and might get something closer to the 4 we give up.

Next year is interesting though, Walker, Robinson and probably Cochrane could be club aligned. Seen them rated 1-3 🙄
 
tiger_tough said:
Player ratings are the best statistical guide, no doubt. But you can't use them as a definitive guide.

For example Daniel Turner is rated as a better KPD than Sam Taylor this season.
Jack Darling ahead of Nick Larkey
George Hewett ahead of Nick Daicos
Mitch McGovern ahead of Nick Vlastuin
Orazio Fantasia ahead of Bobby Hill

etc etc etc.
Click to expand...

The ratings don't lie.

Sometimes a weaker player will be more productive than a stronger player for a certain period, the ratings should reflect this, it does not show them to be wrong in any way.

Where we need to use our judgement is in working out why a player is rating lower or higher than expectations during a certain period. Maybe he has a more favourable role. Maybe he has lost some of the support around him that was present before. Maybe he gets more attention from the opposition than before. The ratings don't and can't tell you who the highest value(in terms of trade or salary) players are at any given time. They just tell you who has performed best during a defined period(a game, season, career for eg) up to now.
 
tiger_tough said:
Player ratings are the best statistical guide, no doubt. But you can't use them as a definitive guide.

For example Daniel Turner is rated as a better KPD than Sam Taylor this season.
Jack Darling ahead of Nick Larkey
George Hewett ahead of Nick Daicos
Mitch McGovern ahead of Nick Vlastuin
Orazio Fantasia ahead of Bobby Hill

etc etc etc.
Click to expand...
Hugo's best game was when a debutant made him look like a complete potato in the air. :$
 
Meteoric Rise said:
This is true, because Hugo took the debutante to the absolute cleaners everywhere else. 3 score launches, 2 goals, 8 v 3 contested possessions etc.
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Will Ferrell Lol GIF by First We Feast
 
Meteoric Rise said:
This is true, because Hugo took the debutante to the absolute cleaners everywhere else. 3 score launches, 2 goals, 8 v 3 contested possessions etc.
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Next you will be telling me Dion is the best player in the league because Chimp Data told you so :flushed:
 

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Meteoric Rise said:
Even I would not take a 2 game sample as reflective.

But if he carried on at that level for 10+ games...if he is the best, he is the best.
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You're happy to take a small sample size to diminish Massimo being a clearly more accomplished player though :$
 
tigs2010 said:
You're happy to take a small sample size to diminish Massimo being a clearly more accomplished player though :$
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Massimo has done better overall when you consider last year. But you are only regretting missing out on him if he replicates that level fairly consistently. This year he has not done so, and Ralphsmith is playing better than him, all things considered. We must reserve judgement.
 
OK, I got a few laughs reading this thread about ... Trade and FA Massimo V Ralphyboy.


The obvious conclusion is that we need more rumours and stuff going on, so that we don't degenerate into whatever is going on here now.
 
Meteoric Rise said:
The ratings don't lie.

Sometimes a weaker player will be more productive than a stronger player for a certain period, the ratings should reflect this, it does not show them to be wrong in any way.

Where we need to use our judgement is in working out why a player is rating lower or higher than expectations during a certain period. Maybe he has a more favourable role. Maybe he has lost some of the support around him that was present before. Maybe he gets more attention from the opposition than before. The ratings don't and can't tell you who the highest value(in terms of trade or salary) players are at any given time. They just tell you who has performed best during a defined period(a game, season, career for eg) up to now.
Click to expand...
Confused Joe Biden GIF by CBS News
 

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The lack of contextual factors is what makes the player ratings bogus.

Ben Miller took Hogan to the cleaners and apparently it was a below average game for him despite polling coaches votes. Probably because he didn't really have any involvement in the game apart from winning a couple of contests and otherwise beating him with body spoils and good positioning to stop him getting the ball. But if he goes up against a first gamer and takes 9 intercept marks he probably rates through the roof despite it being a less impressive performance in context, which player ratings don't account for.
 
copthat said:
The lack of contextual factors is what makes the player ratings bogus.

Ben Miller took Hogan to the cleaners and apparently it was a below average game for him despite polling coaches votes. Probably because he didn't really have any involvement in the game apart from winning a couple of contests and otherwise beating him with body spoils and good positioning to stop him getting the ball. But if he goes up against a first gamer and takes 9 intercept marks he probably rates through the roof despite it being a less impressive performance in context, which player ratings don't account for.
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This is correct, the ratings assume all opponents are equal. But in the end, ovr a longer sample of games, this is a fair assumption, because all players playing certain roles play against roughly the same quality of opponent over time.
 
spky1234 said:
Taranto and Hopper won't be playing in the midfield when we are next contending.
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We could go back in time and say the same thing about Newman and Jackson (and Lids as it turned out), but nobody can question the role these blokes had in providing mentorship for the likes of Cotch, Dusty etc when they were youngsters.
 
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