Mega Thread Trading, Drafting & General Cattle Rustling Part III

[TAITA]

Your the one looking backwards, don't you see that?

No rear view mirrors on this bus son.

 

[Hard_to_Beat]

From what I know, the knife is out for him at North.

He likes a drink and North has been overrun with puritans.

I wouldn't be surprised if you blokes jump all over him in the PSD, if we can't work out a trade.

 

[TeamPlayer23]

And who will replace Lake should he go down for a week or 5?

Still can't understand the reasoning behind the offloading of Jordan Lisle???
He had so much upside, in really developing him self as a real good defender, as he showed plenty of promise in Full back on the lakes of cloke etc, in the few games that he played in 2011!!
He was a versatile option and whas regarded for his marking ability, competitiveness and football smarts.

 

[aussie80s]

He likes a drink and North has been overrun with puritans.

I wouldn't be surprised if you blokes jump all over him in the PSD, if we can't work out a trade.

We could do with a versatile KP player like Petrie but are overrun with nippy mid size forwards. President Newbold regards character as the most vital ingredient so any blemishes would be frowned upon. Hawthorn is a gated community, they don't let the riff raff in.

Are you his agent and trying to resurrect his career? If something gets discussed on here often enough lazy journos run with it - is that the plan?

You seem to have made 4229 posts in 2 months which is running at a rate of over 70 per day, coincidentally the same amount of time since Matthew had his troubles at Crown. That's either impressive or worrying if it is all to do with Matty.

I do like that you seem to have an aversion to Essendon. My enemies' enemy is my friend but not if you keep offering damaged goods. Is there anything else from North that you can offer? Pick 15 would be nice.

 

[TAITA]

Still can't understand the reasoning behind the offloading of Jordan Lisle???
He had so much upside, in really developing him self as a real good defender, as he showed plenty of promise in Full back on the lakes of cloke etc, in the few games that he played in 2011!!
He was a versatile option and whas regarded for his marking ability, competitiveness and football smarts.

When it's all said and done obviously the coaching group did not see Marko, Peterson, Gibson, Isles, Lisle or Curnow up to the job of being a premiership player.

Given the sides they have gone to play for, we will never find the answer to that question.

 

[Flukey!]

Jordan Lisle?
The same Jordan Lisle who played 5 games in 3 years for us? The same JL who managed 5 senior games in a side that finished 13th?
Just because he is tall, it doesn't mean he can play.

 

[Rioli magic]

And who will replace Lake should he go down for a week or 5?

I think ideally we should try the "Collingwood" approach with Gilham. Trade him out to get a better position in the draft than we currently have, and pick up insurance (Gillies?) for free. Would also open up cap space and probably won't play a game, a replacement for Boumann.

*I also think Gilham should probably look at moving for his own sake. Probably has 2-3 years of opportunity left to play AFL, he needs to make the most of that on a personal level and I'm not sure Hawthorn (Box Hill) is the place to spend it.

 

[aussie80s]

Still can't understand the reasoning behind the offloading of Jordan Lisle???
He had so much upside, in really developing him self as a real good defender, as he showed plenty of promise in Full back on the lakes of cloke etc, in the few games that he played in 2011!!
He was a versatile option and whas regarded for his marking ability, competitiveness and football smarts.

I was a big fan of Lisle and Hawthorn killed him. He was the TAC Cup team of the year centre half back for 2008 and I remember Emma Quayle commenting at the time saying he was going to be a monster defender eventually - exactly what we needed. In the same draft Hawthorn chose Norwood centre half forward Schoenmakers.

I have never understood why they tried to make a forward out of Jordan and a defender out of Ryan. We ended up losing Jordan for virtually nothing as the pick we got for him was given to Freo for some unknown reason which helped secure Boumann. Lisle should still be at Hawthorn.

 

[J0NNY B]

Jordan Lisle?
The same Jordan Lisle who played 5 games in 3 years for us? The same JL who managed 5 senior games in a side that finished 13th?
Just because he is tall, it doesn't mean he can play.

lisle can play very well. He has two weaknesses, speed and kicking. His marking and spoiling is first class.

 

[Steven Tyler]

I'd be staggered if Gilham is a Hawk next year, mainly for his sake!
Were better off trading Gilham
Picking up Gillies in a trade (cost stuff all) or via pre-season for nothing
Picking up Brown (Geelong) in a trade
There's your "insurance" if Lake goes down

 

[TeamPlayer23]

Jordan Lisle?
The same Jordan Lisle who played 5 games in 3 years for us? The same JL who managed 5 senior games in a side that finished 13th?
Just because he is tall, it doesn't mean he can play.

My question to you is if we continued to persist with Ryan Schoenmakers by continuing to give him game time when he was not very good back then, why not Isle??????

I know its past history but just putting it out there!!!

 

[crankybeep]

Out of curiousity, anyone know how Lisle has done at Brisbane?

 

[Jaeger]

Out of curiousity, anyone know how Lisle has done at Brisbane?

Started off really poorly, spent most of the year in the reserves.

Once he cracked into the side late in the season he played well and held his spot.

 

[spudmaster]

Would of copped torrid abuse from Hawks fans for the rest of his career if he stayed, with the 2012 flag being blamed solely on him. Tipping that the booing when he gets the ball against the Hawks next year will be the loudest ever received for any former player.

Another observation, your depth now has to be a concern next year. Should start praying now for no injuries.

You seem to be lost. We're not interested in your trolling.

 

[crankybeep]

Started off really poorly, spent most of the year in the reserves.

Once he cracked into the side late in the season he played well and held his spot.

Many thanks for that.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I was a big fan of Lisle and Hawthorn killed him. He was the TAC Cup team of the year centre half back for 2008 and I remember Emma Quayle commenting at the time saying he was going to be a monster defender eventually - exactly what we needed. In the same draft Hawthorn chose Norwood centre half forward Schoenmakers.

Ever seen Emma Quayle say a bad thing about a kid?


Me neither.

I have never understood why they tried to make a forward out of Jordan and a defender out of Ryan. We ended up losing Jordan for virtually nothing as the pick we got for him was given to Freo for some unknown reason which helped secure Boumann. Lisle should still be at Hawthorn.

Lisle's iffy decision making, and disposal under pressure meant he was not going to make it as a defender. Trading him for a pick was one of the better things we've done at the trade table in the last few seasons, as he was going nowhere fast.

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

I was a big fan of Lisle and Hawthorn killed him. He was the TAC Cup team of the year centre half back for 2008 and I remember Emma Quayle commenting at the time saying he was going to be a monster defender eventually - exactly what we needed. In the same draft Hawthorn chose Norwood centre half forward Schoenmakers.

I have never understood why they tried to make a forward out of Jordan and a defender out of Ryan. We ended up losing Jordan for virtually nothing as the pick we got for him was given to Freo for some unknown reason which helped secure Boumann. Lisle should still be at Hawthorn.

Tom Murphy was also a TAC Cup team of the year CHB. The reality is that neither is an AFL level CHB. Lisle doesn't have the speed or endurance to play down back, whereas Schoey does.

 

[Suckling2Gunston]

Out of curiousity, anyone know how Lisle has done at Brisbane?

Dominated in the two's, should have come into the senior side way, way earlier. Pretty sure he was doing very well in terms of the Coleman equivalent.

 

[aussie80s]

Ever seen Emma Quayle say a bad thing about a kid?


Me neither.

True, only Kevin Sheahan is less critical, but then again Emma only writes about players she rates. She will comment on deficiencies (if that's a bad thing?) in the same manner as Wallace, Phelan and co. which is as far as any of them go. However she will often express her surprise at a selection or non-selection so that is a pseudo comment.

Overall I really rate her talent spotting ability which is more often than not on the mark and well above the average amongst the experts and Phantom Draft selectors. I remember she was about the only one who rated Rioli really highly when everyone else dismissed him when looking at his endurance as he came last, or close to, in a 3km time trial at draft camp.

I accept that Lisle has a bit of Jonathan Hay about his decision making when he had the ball (although that didn't stop Hay becoming an All-Australian) but the job at CHB is to stop the CHF and Lisle could do that better from the limited opportunities I saw. It's not overly useful having a nice disposal if your opponent has kicked 6, and could have been a lot more if Gibbo didn't keep helping out.

Don't get me wrong, I certainly hope Schoey does come on and put another 8-10kg on his frame - he can read the play but just can't get his body in there to stand up in the contest as he is still too light. He seems a great kid, is only 21, his decision making and skills are good, so I expect it will still happen. I trust Clarko's faith - a bit like Kevin Walsh and Sheedy. I still think he is a better forward but it would be great if he could develop into a swing player and play both ends, a bit like Van Der Haar and Daniher did.

I just thought that we should have persevered with Lisle longer and played him down back more at Box Hill. He was always plonked in the goalsquare.

Trading him for a pick was one of the better things we've done at the trade table in the last few seasons

We traded Lisle for pick 29, gave that to Freo for pick 38 and took Jordan Kelly with that selection. I rate Kelly highly as well so we may well come ahead on that.

 

[go hawks!!!]

I rate Kelly highly as well so we may well come ahead on that.

Interested as to why you rate Kelly highly and what position you see him playing?

 

[aussie80s]

Tom Murphy was also a TAC Cup team of the year CHB. The reality is that neither is an AFL level CHB. Lisle doesn't have the speed or endurance to play down back, whereas Schoey does.

I guess so, but Tom never had the size so was never a realistic option there. Lisle could have held down CHB as he had the build for it.

I have no idea how Lisle and Schoenmakers would stack up in a 10km time trial endurance test but you don't need speed or endurance as a key defender. Ability and build are what gets you through. Jordan may well never have made it so this is all a bit speculative, but I just felt we never gave him the chance. I guess we'll never know what could have been, I just hope it doesn't come back to bite us.

If speed and endurance are a key ingredient for a defender then we are in trouble with Brian Lake. Fortunately he is a key defender so I don't think he will have to rely on that as much.

 

[aussie80s]

Interested as to why you rate Kelly highly and what position you see him playing?

Kelly is just a super competitive player who throws himself at contests in the same way Josh Gibson does. Has very little regard for his own safety. He is a fairly quick thinker in surmising a situation and picks good options out of defence.

He still needs to build his body up so may well spend another year at Box Hill and plenty of time in the gym as he is only 19. He is about 191cm so may not be tall enough for key defender but I would imagine at this stage he is the perfect replacement for Gibson in a few years time.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Kelly is just a super competitive player who throws himself at contests in the same way Josh Gibson does. Has very little regard for his own safety. He is a fairly quick thinker in surmising a situation and picks good options out of defence.

He still needs to build his body up so may well spend another year at Box Hill and plenty of time in the gym as he is only 19. He is about 191cm so may not be tall enough for key defender but I would imagine at this stage he is the perfect replacement for Gibson in a few years time.

How many games did you see him play at BHH this year?

We have a number of medium size defenders as an FYI

 

[aussie80s]

How many games did you see him play at BHH this year?

We have a number of medium size defenders as an FYI

I saw about half a dozen games at Box Hill and a few more on TV - he didn't play in all of them but he was a player who stood out in the games I did see.

I see him doing another 12-18 months apprenticeship. Lake and Burgoyne are 30, and are critical in our current premiership window, but in 2 years time we will need to look at having a succession plan. In 18 months Gibson also turns 30.

We do have a lot of medium sized defenders (186-192cm) - Birchall, Stratton, Gibson, Gilham, Cheney, Suckling, Burgoyne, Kelly and Boseley. With Lake and Schoenmakers as key defenders and Guerra and Puopolo capable of playing the small back we seem like we are well catered for with defenders so naturally they won't all play at once but we need to have an eye on the future and that's where I think Kelly fits in.

I am sure that is why they have let Murphy go and why they seem to be looking at getting Gilham a new home. It is also why I have not been a fan of getting another mid-size defender like Gillies as a depth player, as has been mentioned on this forum, as it is not an area where we are really short. I would prefer a mature inside on-baller as a more needed option as that would assist more in our versatility.

 

[go hawks!!!]

Good

I saw about half a dozen games at Box Hill and a few more on TV - he didn't play in all of them but he was a player who stood out in the games I did see.

I see him doing another 12-18 months apprenticeship. Lake and Burgoyne are 30, and are critical in our current premiership window, but in 2 years time we will need to look at having a succession plan. In 18 months Gibson also turns 30.

We do have a lot of medium sized defenders (186-192cm) - Birchall, Stratton, Gibson, Gilham, Cheney, Suckling, Burgoyne, Kelly and Boseley. With Lake and Schoenmakers as key defenders and Guerra and Puopolo capable of playing the small back we seem like we are well catered for with defenders so naturally they won't all play at once but we need to have an eye on the future and that's where I think Kelly fits in.

I am sure that is why they have let Murphy go and why they seem to be looking at getting Gilham a new home. It is also why I have not been a fan of getting another mid-size defender like Gillies as a depth player, as has been mentioned on this forum, as it is not an area where we are really short. I would prefer a mature inside on-baller as a more needed option as that would assist more in our versatility.

good insight brother, made some very good points.

Kelly is a flanker, and I see him more of a forward.

Gillies is shit full stop, I don't think I could cheer him in hawthorn colours.

You forgot abt litherland there, interesting to see if his contract is renewed