Trading Prismall..

[cat_fanatic]

er, wasn't h.taylor considered mature aged?

Mature age in a draft and mature age in a trade are two different things. Mature age in the draft would be older than 19 (like Taylor and Stokes), whereas in a trade a mature age player can be upwards of 30 (like the Spider Everitt - pick 33 trade), so its relative.

 

[table tennis]

MARKED!

Except of course that a mature age player would generally be considered as someone 26 years old and over. Again, you fail to acknowledge the fact that trading for Prismall is a better percentage option than drafting a youngin. Prismall will be, at worst, a solid midfielder for the next ten years, whereas the future of an 18 year old draft pick can be speculated only.

Moloney is a great player. He was the only decent player when we played them last year - kicked three goals playing in the midfield. He has just been hammered by injury so to say Melbourne would have "learnt from Moloney" for the reasons your suggesting is wrong.

I know that 22 doesnt sound old. But - With GC17 it is crucial that clubs with early picks, draft players that will be there for at least the next 10 years.

I know Pris will be a 10 year player. I have no doubt. But, first round picks are worth thier weight in gold, and the value just went up. No one is going to give them up. especially when Geelong used a second round pick on him 4 years ago. (will be 4 when the next draft comes around).

I know where your coming from. You also have to look at it from 15 other clubs point of view. Why would people give up a first rounder to Geelong. People dont want to make a formidable force even stronger.

Geelong will get a 2nd round choice at best or maybe 2 third rounders.

With Stephen Wells at the club and his eye for talent, Geelong should not worry about what picks they get as he will find your diamond in the rough.

The Maloney trade has been a disaster for the Demons. Not because he isnt any good, but becuase of injury. Demons may not want to deal with Cats again after being r*ped by them at the trade table.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

ahh, the difference cf21. maybe you should have stipulated the difference earlier then, whereby the case of moloney doesn't count.

so is (would) the messiah a mature aged (potential) recruit or a young (trade wise) player?

 

[cat_fanatic]

I never used Moloney as an example, TTC - just corrected someone who did.

Prismall would be a young recruit if he was traded, my point being that he is still young, but more proven than a draft pick and therefore more valuable than most picks.


table_tenis, the fundamental difference between us is that you believe that high draft picks are worth their weight in gold. I agree, but i think a young player that has shown something is worth even more (except in the case of a freak player like Natinui of course, which is worth the gamble).

 

[table tennis]

I never used Moloney as an example, TTC - just corrected someone who did.

Prismall would be a young recruit if he was traded, my point being that he is still young, but more proven than a draft pick and therefore more valuable than most picks.


table_tenis, the fundamental difference between us is that you believe that high draft picks are worth their weight in gold. I agree, but i think a young player that has shown something is worth even more (except in the case of a freak player like Natinui of course, which is worth the gamble).

The problem is, you get to develop 18 year olds to a team plan and they gel together at the age of 24-27 they start winning you flags - Take your own club for example.

Geelong should be looking at bringing in some youth, to get them up to speed, to replace the stars that are getting on the wrong side of 30. They bring them up the geelong way, and that will keep you up longer than what Essendon did when they were flying in the early 2000s. They didnt have the structure in place to bring capable kids in to fill ageing players roles.

My point is that Geelong will want draft picks. (we all know that) But no one will want them to dominate for 10 years. So they wont get high draft picks for anyone.

I dont know this for fact, but someone as capable as Brent, will want opportunities, and Geelong wont be able to give him the opportunities that he deserves. I believe that the club will want to get something out of him, therefore a trade is the only way. A liston trophy is nothing that the Geelong FC would care about and would not see that as a return. Similar to the Timmy Callan trade last year.

Geelong will want to free up salary cap for those stars who still havent signed yet too. Brents fate would have already been decided by the club. They will want to play him, to get his value up, but he wont get an extended run and he wont play in the finals unless there is an injury crisis.

 

[TheTimeCometh]

never said "you" did.


in other news, i love table tennis.




the game. not the poster.

 

[mustard]

he's DON bound

thats the word

 

[Rockford]

He'll stay, he's under contract, isn't hurting the Cats with salary cap pressure, has shown he is a good player and has the potential to improve into a gun midfielder. It'd take a very good offer and Prismall saying he wants to leave for a trade to occur. No way has Prismall peaked, he needs to get more games at an AFL level to improve, if Selwood hadn't come a ready made player I have no doubt Pris would be playing and people would be talking about how good Prismall is for a guy of his experience.

 

[darren forssman]

IPrismall would be a young recruit if he was traded, my point being that he is still young, but more proven than a draft pick and therefore more valuable than most picks.

he has played 17 games....proven??

proven more than a draft pick yes, but i am sorry, but he has proven nothing yet apart from rack up possessions in the vfl (which shannon and kane both do) and play 17 mostly average games.

if he decides to leave there is nothing you can do cf21, but the bright side will be list management which could be prudent in keeping the core together.

dont be fooled with these dinky lil cross body kicks.

 

[AngelEyes]

Table Tennis,

I see what you are saying. However, tend to disagree to an extent. Your basic logic is that no team is going to give Geelong something decent as they don't want Geelong to get any better. It probably means stuff all to most of the bottom eight whether Geelong gets better or not, they are that far off that its not funny. Essendon, for example, would have no concern for Geelong whatsover as they aren't in the same ball park.

I can see clubs acting like that when they are close i.e. if Hawthorn, Sydney, Bullodgs or Collingwood wanted to a Geelong player they may behave in that manner as they are closer and want to bridge the gap not widen it. I would possibly suggest that Geelong trading Prismall is also likely to make them weaker, as they would be replacing a depth midfielder who can step in and make an impact with a guy who will unlikely get a game for a couple of years. In terms of Geelong's AFL side, trading Prismall for a draft pick would make Geelong weaker and the other team stronger especially a club like Essendon.

I don't think clubs will have any problem trading for Prismall if they value him as a player. The clubs will ask themselves, especially those down the bottom or mud range, whether it is worthwhile trading a certain draft pick for Brent Prismall? That will likely be their only consideration. I tend to think this notion that this draft is ultra important is a bit of a falacy. Its important but every team will realistically over the next 10 years drop by 10% in terms of talent just because of a wider spread of players. Every team will get weaker relatively speaking as thats what happens when new teams enter.

What is Prismall worth? Well I would suggest a late first rounder or early second rounder. If you asked most people would they be happy for a 2nd rounder to turn out like Prismall, most would say yes. The chances of getting a Brent Prismall in the second round of most drafts are probably 40-60% (depending on the draft) and so I suspect that he is worth an early second rounder. He could push up towards a late first rounder depending on who is interested etc. Teams will deal with Geelong as it makes them better not Geelong better. Its a move to protect Geelong's future not current.

 

[davey_magik]

And a first round pick has starred, at AFL level?

Drafting and trading comes down to percentages; who will be the best for the longest. Why would you go for a player in the draft that is unproven and may turn out to be a dud over a young player that has shown he can handle AFL and perform well? I would draft pris with a first round pick if he was in the draft, so why would trading a first rounder be out of the question?

Pick 17 in what is meant to be a strong draft you would think would think would equal Prismall, especially since GC17 will be taking a lot of draft picks in the next few years, which will definitely inflate the value of picks for this year's draft.

You would draft Prismall with a 1st round pick if he was in the draft? I think that's because he's already played 17 games, has been in the system for 3 years and is 22 this Monday .

I rate Prismall and I do want him at Melbourne, we need more players with good footskills in our midfield, but as I said I'd give you a pick in the mid 30's, nothing more. If you think you'll get a 1st rounder for him you have no idea about drafting and recruiting.

Some people on this board seem to think Prismall is some kind of star. He's still a kid and if he was as good as some suggest he'd be in your starting 18 week in week out.

 

[DanA]

Some people on this board seem to think Prismall is some kind of star. He's still a kid and if he was as good as some suggest he'd be in your starting 18 week in week out.

Umm no. To regularly get in the team Prismall has to overtake either Kelly or Selwood. I rate both of those players better than any of Melbourne's midfield players. To put it another way if Nathan Jones was at the cats I reckon he would be playing reserves.

 

[cat_fanatic]

he has played 17 games....proven??

proven more than a draft pick yes, but i am sorry, but he has proven nothing yet apart from rack up possessions in the vfl (which shannon and kane both do) and play 17 mostly average games.

if he decides to leave there is nothing you can do cf21, but the bright side will be list management which could be prudent in keeping the core together.

dont be fooled with these dinky lil cross body kicks.

I never said he was proven mate, just more proven than a first round draft pick... you don't need to be sorry.

Pick 17 in what is meant to be a strong draft you would think would think would equal Prismall, especially since GC17 will be taking a lot of draft picks in the next few years, which will definitely inflate the value of picks for this year's draft.

You would draft Prismall with a 1st round pick if he was in the draft? I think that's because he's already played 17 games, has been in the system for 3 years and is 22 this Monday .

I rate Prismall and I do want him at Melbourne, we need more players with good footskills in our midfield, but as I said I'd give you a pick in the mid 30's, nothing more. If you think you'll get a 1st rounder for him you have no idea about drafting and recruiting.

Some people on this board seem to think Prismall is some kind of star. He's still a kid and if he was as good as some suggest he'd be in your starting 18 week in week out.

That's right, he has shown something, hence why a club might pick him up in the first round of the draft if he was in it. Therefore he is worth a first round pick.

Ill take your pick 30 and give you Tenace and Byrnes - they'd fit in well at Melbourne.

Umm no. To regularly get in the team Prismall has to overtake either Kelly or Selwood. I rate both of those players better than any of Melbourne's midfield players. To put it another way if Nathan Jones was at the cats I reckon he would be playing reserves.

What he said...

 

[Eagle Ant]

I think Prismall will be on the Radar of a few clubs including WCE.
So you will end up getting probably more then what he is worth.
I would say he was worth a 2nd round pick (you dont need experianced players you already got a awesome team) it will how ever depend on the increased value that the team offers to get him eg:
Essendon offers pick 23.
WCE offer pick 20
Melb offer Pick 17
Wce offer pick 18+ Nicoski
Melb offer Pick 17 + 36

Cats Accept Melb Offer

Using that as an example thats how I see it Working for you guys.
You will get maximium value for a fringe player.
I would love him at WCE as I have said before But I dont think he will leave Victoria.

 

[catempire]

Anyone got any evidence to support the contention that he is contracted for 2009?

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that at the end of last season it was reported he had a year (i.e. 2008) to run on his contract.

They are two very different scenarios - being uncontracted and being contracted - in terms of the return Geelong will get. Geelong could definitely get a late first round pick if he is still contracted. If he's not, Geelong could end up with very little or nothing.

 

[davey_magik]

That's right, he has shown something, hence why a club might pick him up in the first round of the draft if he was in it. Therefore he is worth a first round pick.

Ill take your pick 30 and give you Tenace and Byrnes - they'd fit in well at Melbourne.

You have no clue how the draft and trading works. Sure, he'd go 1st rounder now, maybe that's because he's already been in the comp for 3 seasons? You've missed my point. You'd expect a top 20 pick to play more than 17 games in 3 seasons. You have also ignored the fact this year draft picks carry more weight as it is 'apparently' a strong draft and GC17 will be taking away talented kids in the next two seasons.

Prismall has dominated the VFL and has been alright without starring at AFL level. Colin Sylvia has done the same thing. Would you give up a 1st rounder for Sylvia? I wouldn't.

As for the snipe at Melbourne at the end, I'll just take it you have nothing further to back up your argument and have decided to take a snipe at my club. Classy.

 

[themuddy#3]

That's true. We lack a true, polished outside player like Dal Santo in the current 22... and get away with it because most of our mids/HB's perform this role on top of extracting the pill and winning clearances. I think Varcoe will one day turn into a great outside mid. Prismall is a true outside mid and i think we'd be stupid to trade him away.

dal santo is rubbish, outside players need a good kick or pace Dal has neither, and he cant kick goals either.

 

[DanA]

You have no clue how the draft and trading works. Sure, he'd go 1st rounder now, maybe that's because he's already been in the comp for 3 seasons? You've missed my point. You'd expect a top 20 pick to play more than 17 games in 3 seasons. You have also ignored the fact this year draft picks carry more weight as it is 'apparently' a strong draft and GC17 will be taking away talented kids in the next two seasons.

Prismall has dominated the VFL and has been alright without starring at AFL level. Colin Sylvia has done the same thing. Would you give up a 1st rounder for Sylvia? I wouldn't.

As for the snipe at Melbourne at the end, I'll just take it you have nothing further to back up your argument and have decided to take a snipe at my club. Classy.

I love it how you say so matter of factly that another poster has no idea how the draft and trading works like you are their clubs recruiters or something.

You have a very short memory. I seem to remember a 22 y/o midfielder at Melbourne who after 4 years on Melbourne's list had played about 30 games. Was traded for pick 12 in 2005.

 

[cat_fanatic]

You have no clue how the draft and trading works. Sure, he'd go 1st rounder now, maybe that's because he's already been in the comp for 3 seasons? You've missed my point. You'd expect a top 20 pick to play more than 17 games in 3 seasons. You have also ignored the fact this year draft picks carry more weight as it is 'apparently' a strong draft and GC17 will be taking away talented kids in the next two seasons.

Prismall has dominated the VFL and has been alright without starring at AFL level. Colin Sylvia has done the same thing. Would you give up a 1st rounder for Sylvia? I wouldn't.

As for the snipe at Melbourne at the end, I'll just take it you have nothing further to back up your argument and have decided to take a snipe at my club. Classy.

You are correct in saying this years draft will be more important because of the GC team, but wouldn't that same theory apply to the acquiring of young talent from other clubs by the process of trading? What makes a draft pick better than Prismall? Sure you have a couple more years to develop the pick, but i'm arguing the pick may turn out to be no good, and most likely not be ready to have an impact at AFL level for three years, whereas Pris already has a few pre seasons and has shown more than any draft pick.

Hardly a snipe at Melbourne; they are solid, pacey players, just teling you where you can shove your third rounder as far as Pris is concerned.

 

[table tennis]

You are correct in saying this years draft will be more important because of the GC team, but wouldn't that same theory apply to the acquiring of young talent from other clubs by the process of trading? What makes a draft pick better than Prismall? Sure you have a couple more years to develop the pick, but i'm arguing the pick may turn out to be no good, and most likely not be ready to have an impact at AFL level for three years, whereas Pris already has a few pre seasons and has shown more than any draft pick.

Hardly a snipe at Melbourne; they are solid, pacey players, just teling you where you can shove your third rounder as far as Pris is concerned.

Tenace is not handy, unless he is carrying a towell and water bottles.......

 

[DanA]

Tenace is not handy, unless he is carrying a towell and water bottles.......

You think that, I think that. But you just know someone will pick him up.

 

[table tennis]

You think that, I think that. But you just know someone will pick him up.

Geelong should get into contact with Fremantle. They recycle all scrap metal. tarrant (cough), Solomon (cough) Mark Johnson (cough) Kepler Bradley (cough) so on and so on. Tenace would be touted the great white hope over there!

 

[rohan]

he has played 17 games....proven??

proven more than a draft pick yes, but i am sorry, but he has proven nothing yet apart from rack up possessions in the vfl (which shannon and kane both do) and play 17 mostly average games.

if he decides to leave there is nothing you can do cf21, but the bright side will be list management which could be prudent in keeping the core together.

dont be fooled with these dinky lil cross body kicks.

The difference between Brynes and Tenace ( before i go on you obviously dont watch much of the vfl games) and Prismall is that they constantly cough it up and run themself into trouble. Sure they look flashy and stand out and it works but there effiecency would be well below Brents. Cross body kicks? Is that because moving the ball on quickly to capable hands seems like the Geelong game plan?
17 Average games??? There are midfielders out there getting pumped up that would barely get a touch in the Geelong team. Are you forgetting that he averages about 17-18 touches in the firsts, playing alongside Bartel, Ablett, Corey? What do you want him to do, get it 30 times every game?

Are people dumb or is it just me? The kid would walk into any other midfield team. Put yourself in his shoes and this goes to everyone, if you racked up over 20 touches a game and hit your targets over 90% of the time, and consistantly kept getting dropped. Would you be happy and want to stay so you can add depth? Your kidding yourself. Ofcourse Geelong want to keep him for that reason but do you think Brent is happy at the moment. I dont know but im guessing not...

 

[Dunn - Well Done]

i want him at bomberland any chance?

We will have a pick of about 20 which could be tradeable but i want to keep my picks but what do geelong actually need position wise?

they have young up and coming tall and short forwards. Rucks seem your weakest link maybe a J.Laycock for Prismall trade

 

[Ablettttttt!]

i want him at bomberland any chance?

We will have a pick of about 20 which could be tradeable but i want to keep my picks but what do geelong actually need position wise?

they have young up and coming tall and short forwards. Rucks seem your weakest link maybe a J.Laycock for Prismall trade

No way. We'ver got Ottens, Blake, West and Mumford in the ruck, and Laycock is a bit of a dud.