Rumour GFC 2025 Player Trading, Drafting FA, Rumours and Wish lists Pt 1

[FootyLad0]

Let's see in 3 weeks time

Regular season wins mean diddly squat.
You could beat us by 100 and I’ll still back us in come Finals time

 

[Kobe Gryant]

Believe it or not our 2018 midfield performed well: 2nd in the league for scores from stoppage differential.

We were badly lacking elsewhere, particularly up forward. GAJ massively helped our forward mix the next year and we brought in Rohan who had a career best year. Miers burst onto the scene. Our forward line went from league worst, to average.

Kelly went up a few levels in midfield to cover GAJ's absence.

Prime GAJ, Dangerfield and Selwood would've been the best performing midfield in the AFL era, make no mistake about that. 2013-2014 or 2016 the only years it would've been close to possible. Dangerfield and Ablett's peaks didn't overlap though.

We were like a precursor to the '21-23 Dees.

Slightly worse out of the midfield with no Gawn, and a little more threatening up forward with Tomahawk (although Fritsch was actually good at football in this era).

With 'Simple Simon' and pre-Hocking conservative Scott coaching, the similarities are there.

They were just lucky enough to land in a period with no dynasty team, where as we were unfortunate to be the second best team for a 4 year period.

 

[Mr Meow]

We were like a precursor to the '21-23 Dees.

Slightly worse out of the midfield with no Gawn, and a little more threatening up forward with Tomahawk (although Fritsch was actually good at football in this era).

With 'Simple Simon' and pre-Hocking conservative Scott coaching, the similarities are there.

They were just lucky enough to land in a period with no dynasty team, where as we were unfortunate to be the second best team for a 4 year period.

Spot on and we had just a decent rather than outstanding defence (which did a lot of leg work for that Dees premiership). Max Gawn would've been nice to have in that era as well! Or Jeremy Cameron.

 

[Warhorse]

I think TB is lost. Very hard to keep reputation intact in such a case. It will divide the supporter base tbh and will not look good to both media and sponsors.

Whilst they did allow an NRL player back after such a case, however, I’m sure the media frenzy and pressure won’t be similar. It will go bananas and I think the AFL will be looking to move on quickly.

My understanding is the issue is the age of the victim

 

[dazbroncos]

for Oliver, half the salary and half the contract length. We must have an out if he doesn't get his mojo back.

With Oliver at this point the escape clause or out is not getting into it in the first place.

Go catters

 

[CatToTheFuture]

They don't need To. They know he will either stay with them for 1.8mil (whatever is on the Matched offer sheet) or he will pick one that is willing to trade multiple r1s for him. It wouldn't get as far as him delisting himself.

I think you're over estimating club power and under estimating player power

 

[Warhorse]

St Kilda are chasing Worpel but they are not confident he wants to go their

 

[PzBlinky]

St Kilda are chasing Worpel but they are not confident he wants to go their

If all reports are true (and I'm not saying this isn't), it blows my mind how they repeatedly throw big money at name after name (and even "no names" like Worpel) without getting anyone to bite.

I mean, they're hardly North. Sure, not the most exciting team in the comp or even the most competitive, but they're OK to good - I mean, they beat us. Most people say Ross is a pretty solid coach, and there's local appeal being a Melbourne club.

I wonder if there's a different reason...or if it's just a perception of being boring/unattractive?

 

[Turbocat]

I think you're over estimating club power and under estimating player power

How do you see it playing out?

For mine …it will get down to what the player wants the most. Is his hearts desire to return to Victoria? Is it to return to one particular team. If its Geelong and only Geelong ..and Geelong have black holed all their picks .. and Port refuse to take comp , offer him a two year contract and are hoping like hell that he stays … what happens? I doubt a Bailey Smith lever would work as another club would take him in the draft and Butters would not want to risk that anyway. Is he so unhappy at Port that he simply must get out of there? Woudl he be willing to stay two more years ..on ridiculous money ..and then be a UFA?

For mine.. it all may work out if Port fall like a stone , and have mentally decided they need to add picks and kids before its too late and Tas come in. It becomes far more problematic if Port are team in contention. The value of late R1..is becoming more an more like an R2 …in a way that encourages teams to be belligerent. What picks would Bulldigs have? Could they persuade the player that they should be his destination? Could Port end up persuading a player on our list to move so a trade did not involve picks?

 

[Turbocat]

If all reports are true (and I'm not saying this isn't), it blows my mind how they repeatedly throw big money at name after name (and even "no names" like Worpel) without getting anyone to bite.

I mean, they're hardly North. Sure, not the most exciting team in the comp or even the most competitive, but they're OK to good - I mean, they beat us. Most people say Ross is a pretty solid coach, and there's local appeal being a Melbourne club.

I wonder if there's a different reason...or if it's just a perception of being boring/unattractive?

To some degree ..I see them as where we were a coupel of decades ago. There was a period where no one wanted us either. If they keep their kids and move up the ladder . It will help. The other issue is the afl experience you get playeing for some clubs is not something that a SalCap can smother. Can they develop themselves to being a desirable high end club with blockbuster games? ..and to some degree the unfortuate lack of ultimate success does give a club a certain vibe. If somehow they put together a 07 to 11 era for themselves ..it probably would change drastically for them too.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

How do you see it playing out?

For mine …it will get down to what the player wants the most. Is his hearts desire to return to Victoria? Is it to return to one particular team. If its Geelong and only Geelong ..and Geelong have black holed all their picks .. and Port refuse to take comp , offer him a two year contract and are hoping like hell that he stays … what happens? I doubt a Bailey Smith lever would work as another club would take him in the draft and Butters would not want to risk that anyway. Is he so unhappy at Port that he simply must get out of there? Woudl he be willing to stay two more years ..on ridiculous money ..and then be a UFA?

For mine.. it all may work out of Port fall like a stone , and have mentally decided they need to add picks and kids before its too late and Tas come in. It becomes far more problematic if Port are team in contention. The value of late R1..is becoming more an more like an R2 …in a way that encourages teams to be belligerent. What picks would Bulldigs have? Could they persuade the player that they should be his destination? Could Port end up persuading a player on our list to move so a trade did not involve picks?

They are technically within their rights to force him to not be a free agent. I just think we're looking too hard at what is technically achievable through rules versus what is in their best interests.

In this case maybe butters doesn't care too much and just selects a different club anyway. But if he's chosen a club and is out of contract the ship had sailed. You deny a free agent their choice of destination and force them somewhere else then at the very least your players will refuse to back load your contracts to and avoid rfa. That will make it difficult to manage cap. How many others see how he was treated and given the choice of earlier trade out or waiting to free agency just ask for a trade earlier? Clubs that treat their players like that will struggle to retain and attract players

 

[thegerman]

My understanding is the issue is the age of the victim

Then the career in question is absolutely gone.

 

[Mr Meow]

I think you're over estimating club power and under estimating player power

What about Port Power?

 

[My Tilly]

If Rowell can't break the tag when he's surrounded by players such as Miller, Anderson or Flanders, how's he suppose to do so in our midfield?

 

[cats_09]

They don't need To. They know he will either stay with them for 1.8mil (whatever is on the Matched offer sheet) or he will pick one that is willing to trade multiple r1s for him. It wouldn't get as far as him delisting himself.

And that's goes against the reasons behind free agency in the first place

If a player is a RFA, opts to exercise that right & names their club of choice, but their original club says their matching to force a trade even when they know the destination club can't match that request, it's going to end to a messy situation

Saying to a player who's already expressed their desire to move on that their options are:

• stay on the matched deal, or
• pick another club which will meet our trade request

Isn't going to be a scenario that's going to go down well and be appreciated - it would likely also be the catalyst for the AFLPA to step in for changes to be made to the FA workings, including dropping the restricted part so that when a player reaches free agency they reach true free agency

 

[My Tilly]

I wonder if there's a different reason...or if it's just a perception of being boring/unattractive?

Most of the Saints players live around the most beautiful suburbs in Melbourne. Sandringham, Brighton, Beaumaris. The beach is literally on the foreshore of their training ground.

 

[CatToTheFuture]

What about Port Power?

Yeah that's a solid "incompetence" wild card

 

[Turbocat]

They are technically within their rights to force him to not be a free agent. I just think we're looking too hard at what is technically achievable through rules versus what is in their best interests.

In this case maybe butters doesn't care too much and just selects a different club anyway. But if he's chosen a club and is out of contract the ship had sailed. You deny a free agent their choice of destination and force them somewhere else then at the very least your players will refuse to back load your contracts to and avoid rfa. That will make it difficult to manage cap. How many others see how he was treated and given the choice of earlier trade out or waiting to free agency just ask for a trade earlier? Clubs that treat their players like that will struggle to retain and attract players

There are a lot of a shades for sure.. ..and each trade event will vary depending on the personalities. There is probably subtle differences between force and entice , force and persuade...

Sometimes it just seems to steam roll and happen..which is what the vibe of some post seem to predict, other times player and clubs have had blow ups.. when players who are contracted and who want out ..then cant get what they want. With uncontracted players.. even when the trade is done hard FA or just OOC ..rarely now do players end up being where they don't want to be… but its not often that the destination club sets out to achieve that with no collateral with a reliance on FA comp. Geelong pushed the boundaries with Smith , and calculated correctly that it could be done with their R1.

In a way its just another example of a flawed system The concept of being compensated for any player that is out of contract is not aligned with football being a business. How does it work in soccer or other professional sports. To me you trade the contract ..and once the contract is done ..all players are free agents…but thats not the system so we work with the climate.

Id question how bolted on are players demands and desires. In this particular case I could see Butters saying that its only another two years ..I will stay for 2M a year.

Or he might say Dogs Cats … not that much difference and the Dogs look a competitive group.

Or he might say ..”you realise this means war" ..and demand Geelong. Port say Geelong have nothing to trade. Player says Im a FA. Port say no you aren't you are just a OOC player and we are willing to make you the highest paid player in our clubs history, pay you more than what Geelong will and thats how much we rate you and if Geelong really rated you they would have been willing to do the Harely Reid trade to get you.. rather than try to get you with no picks at all. Thats very disrespectful. Give us two more years.. and then you can do whatever and go wherever you want and by then you will be a UFA, and thats when a UFA might be getting even higher offers as Tas will be looking for players…etc.

 

[Matthew Jelley]

As exciting as it is to be linked to so many great midfielders I believe our no.1 priority should be to get a ruck in
Conway and Edwards may well be the future but even if they get fit today that's still a couple of years off at best
Other than TDK who else could that be though?
Is OBrien an option for a couple of years?

 

[Turbocat]

And that's goes against the reasons behind free agency in the first place

If a player is a RFA, opts to exercise that right & names their club of choice, but their original club says their matching to force a trade even when they know the destination club can't match that request, it's going to end to a messy situation

Saying to a player who's already expressed their desire to move on that their options are:

• stay on the matched deal, or
• pick another club which will meet our trade request

Isn't going to be a scenario that's going to go down well and be appreciated - it would likely also be the catalyst for the AFLPA to step in for changes to be made to the FA workings, including dropping the restricted part so that when a player reaches free agency they reach true free agency

That might be an ideal outcome ..as putting a restriction on someone based on how much they earn ..or even the structure of their contarct seems to lack equality. It should have happened after Geelong and Cameron..who had been at the club 9 years at AFL level ..and possibly one year before that as a 17 year old that did not count… but he landed at Geelong and it all seemed to settle.

As to the reasons for Free Agency … id say the original intent was not for these big naems to lever moves but to help 2nd and 3rd level players. It was naive but that was what was proclaimed.

I would guess Port would be legitimate in not wanting a North/McKay situation … they would not want him to go… If they offer him the chance to stay on for even more money… for two more years … clubs usually just fold (like the Dogs) as they see the choice between something and nothing. I cant see how that outcome occurs in Butters case. Its been a long time since a disgruntled trade resulted up in some sort of arbitration , maybe it would in this case if all stuck to their guns.

 

[dudusmaximus]

Most of the Saints players live around the most beautiful suburbs in Melbourne. Sandringham, Brighton, Beaumaris. The beach is literally on the foreshore of their training ground.

Ages ago, a Recruiter told me that we should look at a job not for what it is, but where it leads to..

With the Saints, it leads to a dead-end. You don't get accolades (Individual or Team) or get poached out easy/early. They are the Zombies of the AFL.

 

[PzBlinky]

Most of the Saints players live around the most beautiful suburbs in Melbourne. Sandringham, Brighton, Beaumaris. The beach is literally on the foreshore of their training ground.

Well, the location sounds nice enough! So it's probably not that then.

 

[cats_09]

That might be an ideal outcome ..as putting a restriction on someone based on how much they earn ..or even the structure of their contarct seems to lack equality. It should have happened after Geelong and Cameron..who had been at the club 9 years at AFL level ..and possibly one year before that as a 17 year old that did not count… but he landed at Geelong and it all seemed to settle.

As to the reasons for Free Agency … id say the original intent was not for these big naems to lever moves but to help 2nd and 3rd level players. It was naive but that was what was proclaimed.

I would guess Port would be legitimate in not wanting a North/McKay situation … they would not want him to go… If they offer him the chance to stay on for even more money… for two more years … clubs usually just fold (like the Dogs) as they see the choice between something and nothing. I cant see how that outcome occurs in Butters case. Its been a long time since a disgruntled trade resulted up in some sort of arbitration , maybe it would in this case if all stuck to their guns.

I agree with that that the biggest issue or nativity around that is the AFL thinking that those 2nd & 3rd tier players are going to be on a single playing list for 8 years to reach FA status

Maybe this is where they need to have different FA levels but where it's not simply years on the list & salary earned in the final year of it, and instead introduce a lower level of FA to capture those 2nd & 3rd tier players, especially the 3rd tier

Why not something like, '5-yrs completed and played less than 50 games' to open up potential movement for those players in the wings. For anyone who thinks that's a little crazy in terms of not many games played for that length of time, so how many players would that capture - GC currently have 4 players in their 6th year who'll be out of contract at seasons end, with 3 of them having played less than 50 games


Maybe we then also see a change in the upper tier of FA where instead of 8yrs may mean FA or UFA, while 10 means FA confusion type thing, we change it a straight 9yrs and the player becomes a FA with no restricted category. 9 years could easily equate to 150+ games given to their original team and the chance to then set themselves up for the next stage of their life

 

[Gazza Greatness]

As exciting as it is to be linked to so many great midfielders I believe our no.1 priority should be to get a ruck in
Conway and Edwards may well be the future but even if they get fit today that's still a couple of years off at best
Other than TDK who else could that be though?
Is OBrien an option for a couple of years?

Geelong has been shuffling the deck chairs for sometime now in regards to our ruck position with Reece Stanley 200cm always the one we end up falling back on and when fit and up and running he is more than competitive, just not for a number of consecutive games in a row which by all accounts has got to do with bone on bone with knee? Mark Blicavs 198cm for a time now, SDK 204cm for the last couple of seasons and in more recent times with Shannon Neale 203cm mainly forward have all been chipping in for both longer and shorter periods in games to assist with this vitally important role. And it has appeared to me for sometime the Club has been reasonably satisfied with this arrangement 'with the knowledge' that Toby Conway 207cm will take over at some stage as our number one ruckman as soon as he is ready with Mitch Edwards 206cm potentially being our next 'young ruckman' in line to support this vital role.

This thinking process and strategy by the coaching hierarchy seem to some point be set in stone as we don't seem to be interested in bringing another experienced and mature ruckman into the club. So it does tell me that the club is extremely confident in getting Toby Conway 207cm up and running in the near future, hence recently renewing his contract and from my own personal perspective I pretty much see it the same way with Toby in time being in the top echelon of ruckman in the game on the provision his body does indeed stand-up to the riggers of being a AFL ruckman. The problem can arise whereby we have a shortage of big men for any length of time but you can say that about every other club in the league.

PS - Recent draftee Jacob Molier 201cm

 

[Turbocat]

I agree with that but the biggest issue or nativity around that is the AFL thinking that those 2nd & 3rd tier players are going to be on a single playing list for 8 years to reach FA status

Maybe this is where they need to have different FA levels but where it's not simply years on the list & salary earned in the final year of it, and instead introduce a lower level of FA to capture those 2nd & 3rd tier players, especially the 3rd tier

Why not something like, '5-yrs completed and played less than 50 games' to open up potential movement for those players in the wings. For anyone who thinks that's a little crazy in terms of not many games played for that length of time, so how many players would that capture - GC currently have 4 players in their 6th year who'll be out of contract at seasons end, with 3 of them having played less than 50 games


Maybe we then also see a change in the upper tier of FA where instead of 8yrs may mean FA or UFA, while 10 means FA confusion type thing, we change it a straight 9yrs and the player becomes a FA with no restricted category. 9 years could easily equate to 150+ games given to their original team and the chance to then set themselves up for the next stage of their life

What you mention is something I have thought about too. You say 5 years … I was think even less than that … as players often seem to be drafted then when they fail or fall short so quickly are tossed aside. It makes no siense to me when we see how many players that are late drafted. A kid must almost alwasy be better from being in and under an afl system for three years than a scrawny kid in the draft. If a kid has not got 50 games in 3 or 4 years then id be happy to talk about some sort of FA to a non finals side that would offer opportunity. The downsde is that might change the draft profile , especially for rucks and talls. Imagine Shannon Neale being a FA at the end of last year this year ..or even next year ..as he probably falls short of 50.

A change that id like to see is to how RFA is assessed.. not front loading and back loading contracts affecting it. The AFL could introduce a range of changes if they wanted…. 4th contract for UFA or FA counted by years in the system not years at one club .. even no RFA but at the same time a forced trade for players in the second contract. Looking at Gettable today ..id say Tasmania is going to shake it all up again