Transgender

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Please be aware that the tolerance of anti-trans language on BF is at an all-time low. Jokes and insults that are trans-related, as well as anti-trans and bigoted rhetoric will be met with infractions, threadbans etc as required. It's a sensitive (and important) topic, so behave like well-mannered adults when discussing it, PARTICULARLY when disagreeing. This equally applies across the whole site.
 
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Ed_Gein said:
In what ways are they blown out of proportion? Don't get me wrong, I don't have anything against equality, but MTF trans people competing in sports designed for biological females isn't it. We're already seeing females losing scholarships in USA to trans athletes who're dominating track events, the Kiwi weightlifter (Hubbard?), the cycler (McKinnon?), Mancey, Fallon Fox etc winning competitions due to the unfair advantage of having gone through puberty as a male etc... And yeah, in general your second paragraph is a by-product of Twitter culture spreading throughout into other mediums in my opinion. Doesn't really seem like a healthy area to talk about those sort of things since people can only cram so much into one tweet.
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I've never actually tweeted, let alone even visited twitter, nor anything like it.
 

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No child should ever be forced to live a life that is not theirs, I did and it nearly killed me many times.

So sport made my transgender self, in a way, so much harder because the more well-known I become, the more difficult it become to come out as who I am. Sometimes I wish I hadn’t have done sport because maybe I could’ve been that little boy in the corner that could’ve just snuck off and transitioned and no one would’ve noticed. But in Wagga, I was a household name back then.

But what sport did for me was give me a strong mind, particularly with the endurance training, the running and the swimming, I trained harder than anyone else, longer than anyone else, because I loved going on 20 kilometre runs because I was by myself and I was always out in front. And it gave me time to daydream of being Kirsti. And swimming with your head in the water it gave me time to dream about being Kirsti. But every single lap I swam, at least once I thought, I’m in the wrong body. But it did give me time.

And a similar time was every time I went to bed at night, I would always go to bed dreaming and praying that I’d wake up in the right body. I’d really hope that I’d have a dream that night that was a positive dream. But unfortunately, not many of those dreams were positive because going back to when I was 3 and a half years of age, my father and mum had a family gathering, and a number of friend’s barbeques and partied out in the backyard. And I can remember this particular event which stuck with me for around another 30 years. My dad, for a joke, dressed me in a little yellow dress with all frills all over it, and I can remember holding me down in the hallway and forcing this dress onto me and laughing. Everyone’s laughing, and dad took me out the back and held me up above his head, “Look at my little girl, my little girl.” So I knew then before I came out, and I knew at that age, that I was different. I didn’t have a name for it, but I knew I should’ve had a vagina like my sisters. That’s all I knew. I had this thing between my legs that just didn’t go there. But they laughed. And this incident evolved into a recurring nightmare that happened 99% of the nights that I went to sleep until the day I came out as transgender to my wife when I was 33 years of age.

Part 2

1970 I remember my first day at school was at Ashmont Primary School in Wagga Wagga. Probably the roughest school in Wagga Wagga. I remember the particular day that I went to school in early February back in them days and it was over 100 degrees, and I can remember they let the Kindergarten kids go outside to get under the sprinklers. We were all just in our underpants. Even that day, I remember that I’m thinking I’ve got the wrong bits down below.

So it was difficult from day one because my gender dysphoria played on my mind right from Kindergarten on. I’d look at the girls sitting in the group and thinking I just want to be over there talking with the girls and wearing that dress.

But then I had to live up to my dad’s expectations and be the big tough boy. And I was the type of boy that all the girls wanted to be the girlfriend with. And I was always attracted to girls. So it was a very confusing thing. I’m thinking, if I’m really a girl, wouldn’t I like boys? And I had all this stuff.

I had no one to talk to. There wasn’t one school teacher or one friend. I remember a catholic priest used to come in and do our scripture classes. I remember when I had my hair a bit longer in about year 3, he threatened to cut my hair off and was calling me a girl and stuff like that. I was in complete denial that I was transgender. So it was really, really hard. There’s just no one. I couldn’t talk to my dad, I couldn’t talk to my mum, I couldn’t talk to friends.

So school was really hard because every single day, a thousand times a day, it would come across. Everything would trigger it. It could be a bangle on a girl or anything, lip gloss or just a school dress or anything. So it was really, really, really hard. In about year 3, we transferred to another primary school. Same thing, and I was already excelling at sport, and the gender stuff went all through primary school. And then when the puberty hit, that was massive.

Part 3
Before 10 years of age I thought to myself I’d rather be dead than live one more day in the wrong body. I used to have dreams and pray that my penis would be amputated in an accident and I remember I’d have this dream and I could hear the doctor saying, “Look, Warren’s lost his penis and we’ve only got two options. One, he’s going to die, or two, we’ve got to make him a girl.” For most men or boys, that would be a nightmare. To me, this was one of my happy dreams because I actually got it chopped off in an accident. And my dad’s saying in my dream, “He’d hate to live as a girl. He’d rather die.” Still, in my dream, I didn’t have the courage to come and say, “No dad, I’m happy to be a girl, just give me a vagina.” So it was ******* hard.

Every single day hurt there wasn’t one day, not one day that didn't hurt living in the wrong body.

The pain of gender dysphoria is like living every day feeling like you lost the most precious person in your life.

Part 4
When I did come out, every person that I knew in my life or anyone that ever known me, they all say that I was the last person they ever would have guessed to be transgender. Because I hid it so well.

My Dad would have put me in a mental institution. If Dad saw a gay person walk in front of the car he would say they should shoot those people. And then when the AIDS stuff came out it for worse.

I was scared to tell anyone because I would’ve been locked up. I would’ve been bashed or whatever from my Dad. So I hid it really well. One thing I used to do is when I used to talk, I always used to hold my hands in a tight no one ever noticed.
Clenching my fists stopped me doing my natural girly movements. My whole life, I can remember doing this. Anlot of people tell me now as a young person growing up, I never had an expression on my face. I always had this deep thought on my face. People they used to leave me alone a lot. But that was me thinking of my gender stuff in my own little world. I missed out on a lot at school, I couldn't hear the teacher what the teacher said when my mind would just wander. I was fixated you could walk past me and I wouldn’t have seen you.


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Demontim275 said:
You got upset because a gay man said this is similar to his experiences.
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I have no idea who this gay man is or what his experiences are. BTW, gay people and transgender people are two different kettles of fish- no-one suggests that homosexuality is mental illness- again, you are just trying to make extremists out of thin air.

Does it trigger you so much that there are centrists and conservatives out there that don't hate gay people?

I'm sorry you get turned on by imanginary hatred. Seek help mate, we are here for you.
 
RobbieK said:
Are you suggesting we shouldn't reduce the stigma against trans people?
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Don't think there should be any stigma against transgender people. I see it as a mental health issue, always will, doesn't mean that I see them as paedos, deviants etc. despite what the loonies above say.
its free real estate said:
If the cost of reducing stigma is repeating falsehoods then by all means necessary maintain the stigma.
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I don't agree. I dont believe that two wrongs make a right, that is the domain of the extreme Left. Shouldn't be any stigma directed toward transgender people, but there should be an acceptance of the reality of biology and the social construction of transgenderism.
 
Deadpool said:
I have no idea who this gay man is or what his experiences are. BTW, gay people and transgender people are two different kettles of fish- no-one suggests that homosexuality is mental illness- again, you are just trying to make extremists out of thin air.

Does it trigger you so much that there are centrists and conservatives out there that don't hate gay people?

I'm sorry you get turned on by imanginary hatred. Seek help mate, we are here for you.
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No one suggests homosexuality is a mental illness? Really?
 
Deadpool said:
I have no idea who this gay man is or what his experiences are. BTW, gay people and transgender people are two different kettles of fish- no-one suggests that homosexuality is mental illness- again, you are just trying to make extremists out of thin air.

Does it trigger you so much that there are centrists and conservatives out there that don't hate gay people?

I'm sorry you get turned on by imanginary hatred. Seek help mate, we are here for you.
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Between 1952 and 1973, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder by the American Psychiatric Association. Gay men and women across the country were subjected to a variety of treatments aimed at curing their “condition.”
During that era, Dr. Charles Silverstein was in graduate school training to become a psychologist. Here, he talks about his role in changing the medical community’s ideas about homosexuality.


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kirsti said:
Between 1952 and 1973, homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder by the American Psychiatric Association. Gay men and women across the country were subjected to a variety of treatments aimed at curing their “condition.”
During that era, Dr. Charles Silverstein was in graduate school training to become a psychologist. Here, he talks about his role in changing the medical community’s ideas about homosexuality.


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Are we between 1952 and 1973 then? No?

Play the victim card with someone else, thanks. I think it has an expiry date that's done.
 

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RobbieK said:
It lingers.
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Oh bullshit. The more equal things get, the more people whinge that things are more unequal to the point where you question whether equality was the intended outcome at all.

I'm sick of that argument, it's why I turned my back on the Left ten years ago in my late teens and haven't looked back.
 
Deadpool said:
Oh bulls**t. The more equal things get, the more people whinge that things are more unequal to the point where you question whether equality was the intended outcome at all.

I'm sick of that argument, it's why I turned my back on the Left ten years ago in my late teens and haven't looked back.
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Even most straight people understand that equality is not a pie. Giving equal rights to those who have few or none doesn’t eliminate the rights of others.


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Deadpool said:
Oh bulls**t. The more equal things get, the more people whinge that things are more unequal to the point where you question whether equality was the intended outcome at all.

I'm sick of that argument, it's why I turned my back on the Left ten years ago in my late teens and haven't looked back.
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You missed the SSM survey? Almost 40% of the population voted no.

Things ARE more equal than they have ever been. That is a good thing. There has never been a better time not to be heterosexual.

But it doesnt mean things are totally equal. It doesn't mean that a significant proportion of the population isn't still unhappy about how equal things have got and have stopped fighting against that equality.

Plenty of people in Australia think being gay is a mental illness. Plenty of people in Australia think it is worse than a mental illness. Not the majority, thankfully, but enough to still have a real impact on queer people.
 
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kirsti said:
Even most straight people understand that equality is not a pie. Giving equal rights to those who have few or none doesn’t eliminate the rights of others.


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RobbieK said:
You missed the SSM survey? Almost 40% of the population voted no.

Things ARE more equal than they have ever been. That is a good thing. But it doesnt mean things are totally equal. It doesn't mean that a significant proportion of the population isn't still unhappy about how equal things have got and have stopped fighting against that equality.

Plenty of people in Australia think being gay is a mental illness. Plenty of people in Australia think it is worse than a mental illness. Not the majority, thankfully, but enough to still have a real impact on queer people.
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This thread is about transgenders, not gay people in general. FFS, stay on topic.
 
Deadpool said:
This thread is about transgenders, not gay people in general. FFS, stay on topic.
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It is on topic. We were discussing the similarities between the treatment of homosexuals and transgender people. They are similar. The only reason we are still discussing that is because you are denying the similarity.
 
RobbieK said:
It is on topic. We were discussing the similarities between the treatment of homosexuals and transgender people. They are similar. The only reason we are still discussing that is because you are denying the similarity.
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Denying the similarity between gay people and transgenders? Yes.

I said nothing about treatment, that's a completely different topic, for a different safe space.
 
its free real estate said:
the same organisation that made Mugabe a goodwill ambassador
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They also recently endorsed traditional Chinese medicine. To paraphrase the old saying. What do you call the parts of Chinese medicine that has been tested and works? Medicine.

WHO isn't really a serious player in the mental health arena. They should stick to improving physical health outcomes in the thirld world.
 
Deadpool said:
Denying the similarity between gay people and transgenders? Yes.

I said nothing about treatment, that's a completely different topic, for a different safe space.
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Treatment not in the medical sense but in the social sense.

You denied that people still think homosexuality is a mental illness. The fact is that plenty of people do think that, or worse. Not a majority of the population, but a significant enough minority for homosexuals to still suffer from regular prejudice.

Trans people face a lot of the same types of prejudice, couched in the same type of language, often from the same people, that homosexuals did and do.
 
RobbieK said:
Treatment not in the medical sense but in the social sense.

You denied that people still think homosexuality is a mental illness. The fact is that plenty of people do think that, or worse. Not a majority of the population, but a significant enough minority for homosexuals to still suffer from regular prejudice.

Trans people face a lot of the same types of prejudice, couched in the same type of language, often from the same people, that homosexuals did and do.
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Sorry, I assumed you were making cogent points. You linked all opposition to SSM to automatically thinking that homosexuality is a mental illness. That is just absurd, and offensive, and quite possibly heterophobic.

My bad.
 
Deadpool said:
Sorry, I assumed you were making cogent points. You linked all opposition to SSM to automatically thinking that homosexuality is a mental illness. That is just absurd, and offensive, and quite possibly heterophobic.

My bad.
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I didn't do that. But I will admit to not being clear as to why I referenced it.

I referenced the survey because it indicates there is a not insignificant minority in society who oppose equality for homosexuals. There is a variety of reasoning amongst the 40% as to why they oppose that equality, but a proportion of them do so on the grounds that there is something wrong about being homosexual. That was clear from a lot of the language used and the tactics used by opponents. There was in fact a lot of conflating of issues, including drawing the Safe Schools program and the discussion of the normalisation of transgender people.
 
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