Trent West

[Pure_Ownage]

Was very, very ordinary in the ruck but impressed up forward, if he'd kicked straight I'd have put him in the votes. It wasn't so much his ruck work which worried me as his awareness in play, how many times did Goldstein drift off him and into really dangerous positions? Frustrating given that he took some great contested grabs when man on man.

I wouldn't go anywhere near that far. I would however say that you and the previous poster point out the contrast between West and Blake today. West was serviceable in the ruck contests (I'd say 5-10, but room for improvement definitely I would say) but great in terms of contested marking, and he looked the most comfortable he ever has getting involved in the play, handballing etc.

Blake by contrast was outstanding in the ruck contests, but poor around the ground, the lowlight being when McIntosh (or the other ruckman, can't remember which) just moved him out of the way and took the mark 30m out, which was poor IMO.

Maybe thus, with their differing strengths and weaknesses, they complement each other well. Just a thought.

 

[thejester]

Mmmm except Blake had twice as many touches and, whilst having a couple of comic failures in marking contests (there was also one on the outer wing in which McIntosh worked him under it and then bombed to the square) also took the game on when he got the ball, which was refreshing. The idea they compliment each other is nice in theory (and would seem to be reflected in West's VFL form) but I don't think it really panned out today. Which is really frustrating cause I think West had been awesome in the twos and in individual acts was really, really good - his contested marking is only a rung or two below Pods IMO.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Yes, West has some shortcomings, but there is enough about him to suggest that he can be a bankable player for us. It will be interesting to see if he does make way for either Ottens or Hawkins next week, you would suggest so...but it is dissapointing for him as he is building up the confidence with 3 in a row now.

 

[DanA]

I thought he was sub par. Took some good contested marks but was wasteful in front of goal. Jumped to early in the ruck and I didn't see to many taps that went to advantage.

I'd love him to make it but out of all the ruckmen on our list I think he's the least likely to play 200 games.

 

[trentmac21]

I wouldn't go anywhere near that far. I would however say that you and the previous poster point out the contrast between West and Blake today. West was serviceable in the ruck contests (I'd say 5-10, but room for improvement definitely I would say) but great in terms of contested marking, and he looked the most comfortable he ever has getting involved in the play, handballing etc.

Blake by contrast was outstanding in the ruck contests, but poor around the ground, the lowlight being when McIntosh (or the other ruckman, can't remember which) just moved him out of the way and took the mark 30m out, which was poor IMO.

Maybe thus, with their differing strengths and weaknesses, they complement each other well. Just a thought.

I would rather someone who goes alright in the ruck and and plays well around the ground, than someone who kills it in the ruck but is terrible around the ground. Just my opinion tho.

 

[Jimmy Bravo]

I don't think West was too bad today. His ruckwork wasn't too good, but his mobility around the ground will be key in the future. I can't see Ottens going around for too much longer, and having two guys who aren't too mobile (Blake and Simpson) would leave us vulnerable against teams with even one ruckman who can move out. The time invested in West thus far has been worth it, and he's shown he has the talent at VFL level. It's just a matter of time before he gets used to it at AFL. I think with Ottens and Hawkins out we can afford the time to try to work him in now.

 

[costanza23]

It's out of West or Dawson, as to who goes at the end of this year, as I reckon Ottens will try his luck again next year.
Based on both of their performances in the VFL and AFL this year, West shows much more promise than Dawson. We can't have two lumbering, traditional ruckmen in Blake and Dawson playing together once Ottens retires and Mumford and West are starring at other clubs.
Blake's unco baulks and lucky kick into the forward 50 today showed he is trying to be more mobile and aggressive, like Mumford and West, although it's taken him 80-90 games to even try and implement those facets into his game, while Mumford and West had/have them to begin with. I believe Blake is still in our best team, just as long as he is not accompanied with another ruckman his type: Dawson.

To come back to my original point, I think Geelong must try and keep West at the end of the year and cut their losses with Dawson (I think his first game against Freo was a fluke and sucked everyone in, including me, into thinking he was half-decent). West's improvement and Dawson's mediocre form have made me think otherwise.

 

[rizzo]

Thought he was really good. He needs to get more games under his belt to help with his confidence.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Mmmm except Blake had twice as many touches and, whilst having a couple of comic failures in marking contests (there was also one on the outer wing in which McIntosh worked him under it and then bombed to the square) also took the game on when he got the ball, which was refreshing. The idea they compliment each other is nice in theory (and would seem to be reflected in West's VFL form) but I don't think it really panned out today. Which is really frustrating cause I think West had been awesome in the twos and in individual acts was really, really good - his contested marking is only a rung or two below Pods IMO.

Yep. I think I should have explained my post a little better, I wasn't necessarily trying to say the two complement each other, I was more trying to point out that based on my watching of the game today, both Westy and Blake have different strengths and weaknesses, yet with Westy everyone always seems to focus on the weaknesses and not the strengths. So if we can look at Blakey's strengths, we should give Westy's ones some credit too

I also think, having watched some VFL matches this year, that people should remember he doesn't even play first ruck in the VFL all the time, so for a guy in that position, you would expect his rucking to be a work in progress. I saw him belt Stephenson a few weeks ago so he definitely has good ruckwork in him, he just needs a bit more confidence and some continuity at senior level in order to show it.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

It's out of West or Dawson, as to who goes at the end of this year, as I reckon Ottens will try his luck again next year.
Based on both of their performances in the VFL and AFL this year, West shows much more promise than Dawson. We can't have two lumbering, traditional ruckmen in Blake and Dawson playing together once Ottens retires and Mumford and West are starring at other clubs.
Blake's unco baulks and lucky kick into the forward 50 today showed he is trying to be more mobile and aggressive, like Mumford and West, although it's taken him 80-90 games to even try and implement those facets into his game, while Mumford and West had/have them to begin with. I believe Blake is still in our best team, just as long as he is not accompanied with another ruckman his type: Dawson.

To come back to my original point, I think Geelong must try and keep West at the end of the year and cut their losses with Dawson (I think his first game against Freo was a fluke and sucked everyone in, including me, into thinking he was half-decent). West's improvement and Dawson's mediocre form have made me think otherwise.

I think both have been good in the vfl and afl games they have been given, so I wouldn't say Westy is clearly ahead.

I do however think that unless Dawson improves his athleticism, there is a legitimate discussion to be had about whether he and Blake can play in the same side, so I do agree with you on that. But Dawson is a long term project so let's wait and see on that. We should remember West has been on our list since the end of 05, and he's only starting to play his best footy now, so Dawson needs to be given time too.

On the delisting issue, I disagree, both should stay. If Otto does go on it will only probably be for one more year anyway, and virtually every AFL list, with the exception of Freo, has 4-5 ruckmen on it, so we should start planning for a post Otto future (whenever it arises) and try to keep them both.

 

[Tommy the Cat]

developing well

needs to learn how to kick straight

 

[D BRIDGE]

My god losing Mummy looks such a bad thing now the way he is going.
I thought yeah pick 28 thats cool but dammmmm he is killing it and looks like being a long term dominating ruck for the Swans.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

developing well

needs to learn how to kick straight

Agree on both counts...better not let Moons teach him lest he give him his mental goalkicking demons.

Maybe a few goalkicking sessions with Chappy/Pods are in order for Westy.

 

[yogogorilla]

Saw him getting Thai @ the thai place next too barwon hotel. He does move well for his size. Improving with every game, It must be hard knowing that if hawkins or otten is fit you are probably not going to get a game!

Hope he sticks around, id say ottens last year and he is a similar player.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Saw him getting Thai @ the thai place next too barwon hotel. He does move well for his size. Improving with every game, It must be hard knowing that if hawkins or otten is fit you are probably not going to get a game!

Hope he sticks around, id say ottens last year and he is a similar player.

He had to move well to get the Thai did he? Big queue?

Seriously, I know what you mean.

Is improving.

Don't think he should be compared to or could 'replace' Otto as Otto is pretty much irreplacable, but I do hope he doesn't want to leave ala Mumford, and he becomes a regular player for us in the future.

 

[D BRIDGE]

He aint a thing like Ottens.
Ottens actually dominates other rucks with his strength and size whilst West is undersized an would battle to out tap any full time ruck in the AFL.
Yeah he took a couple of nice marks and good on him but seriously that was it. Butchered the kicks by the way after the marks.

I just dont rate him.
Mumford will be 5 times the ruckmen in the long term.

 

[Vdubs]

It's out of West or Dawson, as to who goes at the end of this year, as I reckon Ottens will try his luck again next year.
Based on both of their performances in the VFL and AFL this year, West shows much more promise than Dawson. We can't have two lumbering, traditional ruckmen in Blake and Dawson playing together once Ottens retires and Mumford and West are starring at other clubs.
Blake's unco baulks and lucky kick into the forward 50 today showed he is trying to be more mobile and aggressive, like Mumford and West, although it's taken him 80-90 games to even try and implement those facets into his game, while Mumford and West had/have them to begin with. I believe Blake is still in our best team, just as long as he is not accompanied with another ruckman his type: Dawson.

To come back to my original point, I think Geelong must try and keep West at the end of the year and cut their losses with Dawson (I think his first game against Freo was a fluke and sucked everyone in, including me, into thinking he was half-decent). West's improvement and Dawson's mediocre form have made me think otherwise.

All depends on our finals results. If we go out without success, would be surprised to see Ottens go around again, and we keep both West & Simpson.

And if we win, who knows and really, who cares??

 

[rizzo]

He aint a thing like Ottens.
Ottens actually dominates other rucks with his strength and size whilst West is undersized an would battle to out tap any full time ruck in the AFL.
Yeah he took a couple of nice marks and good on him but seriously that was it. Butchered the kicks by the way after the marks.

I just dont rate him.
Mumford will be 5 times the ruckmen in the long term.

Can't compare him to anyone after a handful of games. Especially ruckmen.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

He aint a thing like Ottens.
Ottens actually dominates other rucks with his strength and size whilst West is undersized an would battle to out tap any full time ruck in the AFL.
Yeah he took a couple of nice marks and good on him but seriously that was it. Butchered the kicks by the way after the marks.

I just dont rate him.
Mumford will be 5 times the ruckmen in the long term.

Mumford is gone on.

Time to move on.

On West, he's not as bad in the taps as you seem to think. In his first two games he averaged 13.5 hitouts at 22 % efficiency and he had 9 at 11 % against good opposition yesterday, so he may be a work in progress, but he's not a spud in the ruck.

The Ottens comparison is unhelpful, you can't compare a 200 game class ruckman with a young bloke developing who's only played 10 games of AFL. And in regards to the list management, of course we'd love to replace Ottens with something as good, but back to my original point, if Otto goes on next year, it will be his last, so you basically don't consider him in terms of how many rucks we have, and thus you want to keep all the rest if possible. Thus, to get games when Otto is out, and to stay on with us, what West needs to do right now is be on a par with, and hopefully a bit better than Dawson, and I reckon he's making a fair fist of doing that IMO.

In regards to size, I don't think he's too small. Same heght as Vardy and 198 is a ruckable height. His biggest issue is at his size he needs to just jump up at the footy freely, which he does heaps in the VFL, but at the AFL level doesn't look like he has the confidence to do so yet. I reckon it'll come.