Two Michael Clarke-related questions?

[Dan]

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But the body of a goddess!!!!

I'll pay that

 

[d_henderson1810]

That's all fine and good. No one is forcing him to be in the team. But if he wishes to be in the team and, god forbid, lead it, then he needs to put the team first and have a girlfriend who understands that. He can have a d-grade celeb girlfriend if he wants, but she shouldn't be more important than team traditions if he wants to be captain of that team. No one is forcing him, remember.

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Maybe we should go further, and ban all cricketers from having any life outside of cricket. They should be banned from getting married, or having children, as this just distracts players, and it may require him to meet family obligations rather than what is really important in life.

Maybe Ricky Ponting is not fit to be captain, because he uses some of his time to punt. How dare he? He shouldn't be thinking about picking up winnings on the last race when there is a song to be sung.

I wonder too, if a player were to need life-saving surgery, if maybe they could delay that, and spend time with their team-mates instead. I mean, we will all die one day anyway, but you only have one cricket career.

Gee, you talk about these cricketers like they have the responsibilities of a surgeon or a fireman. Maybe a cricketer should, from now on, carry a pager, so if they are asleep, they can be woken at 3am with the news "We've decided to sing the song now!". I mean, spending every waking moment with your team-mates is all that countsin the end, and distractions like family, sleep and going to the toilet need to be put on the backburner.

 

[Father Jack]

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Maybe we should go further, and ban all cricketers from having any life outside of cricket. They should be banned from getting married, or having children, as this just distracts players, and it may require him to meet family obligations rather than what is really important in life.

Maybe Ricky Ponting is not fit to be captain, because he uses some of his time to punt. How dare he? He shouldn't be thinking about picking up winnings on the last race when there is a song to be sung.

I wonder too, if a player were to need life-saving surgery, if maybe they could delay that, and spend time with their team-mates instead. I mean, we will all die one day anyway, but you only have one cricket career.

Gee, you talk about these cricketers like they have the responsibilities of a surgeon or a fireman. Maybe a cricketer should, from now on, carry a pager, so if they are asleep, they can be woken at 3am with the news "We've decided to sing the song now!". I mean, spending every waking moment with your team-mates is all that countsin the end, and distractions like family, sleep and going to the toilet need to be put on the backburner.

... pretty sure i was talking about the evening/night after a win, but if you want to skew the argument way past anything that i've suggested, well, good luck and i'll leave you to it.

 

[d_henderson1810]

Credentials to being an Australian cricket captain (according to the Australian cricket public and the media).

1) You must have no other interests than cricket. You must eat and sleep cricket. No, scrap that. You don't have time to eat or sleep. You must be dedicated to this sport. Because you are getting paid so much, and the public, many of whom don't make as much money cleaning bins, stacking trolleys or working at McDonald's, may become resentful.

2) You must not have an attractive girlfriend. The public won't like this either. Why should you date supermodels or centrefold girls, when there are cricket-lovers who can't get a shag if they paid for it?

3) You cannot drive a nice car. No, an Australian cricket captain has to be seen to do the right thing by a jealous, insecure public, and instead drive a clapped-out 1984 Holden (with paint stripping off).

4) You are not to show that you have any wealth. You must have a five-o'clock shadow, to show that you can't afford razors. You must be skinny, so that it doesn't look like you can afford to buy much food (which is why "Tubby" Taylor was never turly embraced as captain). For even more favourable PR, you must be photographed digging through a bin, looking for scraps to eat. But don't make too much of a mess, or you may annoy a cricket fan, who then has to wash out that bin for work.

5) You must stay with the team until the singing of the song, and cannot leave for any reason, including:- dinners, family emergencies, holidays, your house is on fire, life-saving surgery, death or any other reason. The song must be sung with all present, and sung badly while in a drunken state.

6) You must not be blonde, or put anything in your hair (unless you wear a wig, like Doug Bollinger). You must have a normal haircut, not have it coloured, or do anything that draws attention to yourself.

7) An Australian cricket captain must be non-descript. He must have nothing about his physical appearance that stands out. He must have "boring, man-in-the-street looks", like most cricket supporters do.

8) Above all, and this is most important, as an Australian cricket captain, you must, never, NEVER, smile. Not a wry grin, not a chuckle, not anything. We can't have the media or the cricketing public think that you don't take the game seriously. I mean, if you want to have a job with less responsibility, become a surgeon, a cop, a fireman or join the military. But being captain of Australia is the most important job in the country (sorry, Prime Minister), and must be treated as such. If you become a captain, you must undergo humour-bypass surgery (like Ian Chappell did). But make sure you are back in time for the song to be sung, or you may offend.

9) Also, as a captain, you are expected to make runs, take catches and set a good field. But only after meeting all of the above criteria first. Don't put the cart before the horse.

 

[red+black]

ffs he needs to score runs

everything else is irrelevant

This and only this.

And he's not doing that, so what's his incentive to score runs if he won't be dropped and is guaranteed to be Australian captain in all forms of the sport?

Last 10 Test matches: 417 runs @ 23.16

Last 10 T20 matches: 143 runs @ 15.88 (SR 91.66 )

Why is Clarke promised the world when he's delivering nothing?

I'll wait for your retort d_henderson1810. Forget the fluff, he is NOT PERFORMING ON THE FIELD in T20s and Tests and yet he's captain of both sides.

And when it comes to T20s, he's never performed, so it's not like he has T20 credits in the bank.

 

[d_henderson1810]

yeah, it's not like they're doing anything important the next day

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And it's not like they are doing anything important on Christmas Day either, like family gatherings or anything.

 

[breeno]

^^^ bingle has the face of a horse

Elbows too pointy?

 

[d_henderson1810]

And he's not doing that, so what's his incentive to score runs if he won't be dropped and is guaranteed to be Australian captain in all forms of the sport?

Last 10 Test matches: 417 runs @ 23.16

Last 10 T20 matches: 143 runs @ 15.88 (SR 91.66 )

Why is Clarke promised the world when he's delivering nothing?

I'll wait for your retort d_henderson1810. Forget the fluff, he is NOT PERFORMING ON THE FIELD in T20s and Tests and yet he's captain of both sides.

And when it comes to T20s, he's never performed, so it's not like he has T20 credits in the bank.

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My retort is simple.

It should be based on his figures. If he is struggling, that is more a determinent to his chances of captaincy than who his girlfriend is, what car he drives or how much is in his bank account.

But, don't forget, all captains have had a poor spell. Ponting is having one at the moment. But you can't keep replacing captains the moment they have a poor one.

Also, if not Clarke, then who should captain instead?

 

[d_henderson1810]

Elbows too pointy?

I've never noticed her elbows.

I'm too busy looking at her...CENSORED!

 

[Heisenberg_]

But, don't forget, all captains have had a poor spell. Ponting is having one at the moment. But you can't keep replacing captains the moment they have a poor one.

Big difference is Ponting is at the end of his career, Clarke is in his prime, when Ponting was in his prime you could almost guarantee that he would stand up and make runs when we needed him most, he was at his best in these situations, Clarke on the other hand crumbles under pressure more often then not.
Can't believe how stupid your argument is trying to defend him for thinking he is above our traditions that have been around for a long time, sticking around with your Australian team mates after a great victory is not expecting to have no life outside of cricket, you can go out for dinner any time.

 

[red+black]

Also, if not Clarke, then who should captain instead?

T20s - clearly Cameron White

Tests - Ponting just has to stay on for the time being. Clarke can take over the reins perhaps later this year, hopefully he's playing better by then.

 

[Rhino1966]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavin Excell
ffs he needs to score runs

everything else is irrelevant

This and only this.



If he was a no4 batsman and only a No4 batsman.....greater skillset needed to be a Captain

 

[Rhino1966]

Credentials to being an Australian cricket captain (according to the Australian cricket public and the media).

1) You must have no other interests than cricket. You must eat and sleep cricket. No, scrap that. You don't have time to eat or sleep. You must be dedicated to this sport. Because you are getting paid so much, and the public, many of whom don't make as much money cleaning bins, stacking trolleys or working at McDonald's, may become resentful.

2) You must not have an attractive girlfriend. The public won't like this either. Why should you date supermodels or centrefold girls, when there are cricket-lovers who can't get a shag if they paid for it?

3) You cannot drive a nice car. No, an Australian cricket captain has to be seen to do the right thing by a jealous, insecure public, and instead drive a clapped-out 1984 Holden (with paint stripping off).

4) You are not to show that you have any wealth. You must have a five-o'clock shadow, to show that you can't afford razors. You must be skinny, so that it doesn't look like you can afford to buy much food (which is why "Tubby" Taylor was never turly embraced as captain). For even more favourable PR, you must be photographed digging through a bin, looking for scraps to eat. But don't make too much of a mess, or you may annoy a cricket fan, who then has to wash out that bin for work.

5) You must stay with the team until the singing of the song, and cannot leave for any reason, including:- dinners, family emergencies, holidays, your house is on fire, life-saving surgery, death or any other reason. The song must be sung with all present, and sung badly while in a drunken state.

6) You must not be blonde, or put anything in your hair (unless you wear a wig, like Doug Bollinger). You must have a normal haircut, not have it coloured, or do anything that draws attention to yourself.

7) An Australian cricket captain must be non-descript. He must have nothing about his physical appearance that stands out. He must have "boring, man-in-the-street looks", like most cricket supporters do.

8) Above all, and this is most important, as an Australian cricket captain, you must, never, NEVER, smile. Not a wry grin, not a chuckle, not anything. We can't have the media or the cricketing public think that you don't take the game seriously. I mean, if you want to have a job with less responsibility, become a surgeon, a cop, a fireman or join the military. But being captain of Australia is the most important job in the country (sorry, Prime Minister), and must be treated as such. If you become a captain, you must undergo humour-bypass surgery (like Ian Chappell did). But make sure you are back in time for the song to be sung, or you may offend.

9) Also, as a captain, you are expected to make runs, take catches and set a good field. But only after meeting all of the above criteria first. Don't put the cart before the horse.

That Diatribe aside


What does M Clarke bring to the role of Australian Captain that a large number of Australians are Missing / undervaluing?

 

[Demonheart]

I'm not a Clarke fan however I'm going to try and be as unbiased as possible.


There are a couple of issues been argued and discussed, but we can seperate them into two categorys - on and off-field.

With regards to his personal life, basically it's his choice to do whatever he wants, ie see whoever he wants to see (how many of us would honestly knock back the chance to jump in the sack with Bingle?) It's mostly irrelevant what he does in his personal life, Warne is a great example of this.
I'm not hung up with these details, it's not my concern.

Back to the cricket. Prior to the Ashes he's had two poor series, one 50 in 8 inings is not a great return but he's not the first to perform badly in India and won't be the last. Pakistan in England was a nothing series, the results from those games don't hold much weight for me.
Going back further he has 14 test centuries to his name so we know he's got the talent, what we don't know is whether he's in a current form slump or his career is in a non-reversible decline, but to be fair no one knows that at this stage.

The Ashes series has been poor, no one can deny that. But he's not alone in that camp. There's been so many out of form in this series that replacing all of them just hasn't been an option. I haven't been watching the state level much this year, has there been any middle order batsman regurlarly getting good scores?

Moving up to 4 hasn't been a success, but the problem with that is that Hussey has been good at 5, I would be loathe to move Hussey out of a position he's playing well in. That's my view and I understand others will disagree which is fair enough. I'm sure the selectors were hoping that he'd eventually develop into a no.3 batsman, but I don't think it will happen.

The captaincy is one of the main issues. I don't believe he'll make a good captain (just my personal view, i won't get drawn into an argument about it, if your view is different it doesn't bother me and you're entitled to it), but he was named VC all this series so he had to be the captain for the 5th test with Ponting out injured. Naming someone else would have been wrong (even if it was the right decision - if you know what I mean...heh).

I don't understand the hatred against Clarke, good luck to the man for getting a great income and sponsorship dollars, why would say no to that if given the same opportunity. The problems lie with CA, ie the selectors, coach etc. Our preperations for this series have been nothing short of woeful, but it's not the players fault. There's also been some other odd decisions that haven't helped ie the inclusion of smith as a specialist batsman - what's with that?! Khawaja has been a good selection though, could have been made earlier imo.

The selectors have caused this problem and Clarke is paying for it.

Ideally it probably would have been the best thing to drop Clarke for one of the tests so he could go back to state level and get his confidence back, hindsight is pretty handy though.

Going forward he has to be given a chance to get his groove back and then bring him back in at no.5. The public perception that he's been rewarded the Captaincy for a poor couple of series hasn't helped his image.

 

[red+black]

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All I am saying is, I wonder if you are upset because he has some things you don't.....

such as talent, a girlfriend, a healthy bank account, a good job, fame, fortune etc, etc.

You really need to stop with this stupid line of questioning.

He is miserably out of form in Test cricket.

He is miserably out of form at #4 in Test cricket.

He is miserably out of form in T20 cricket.

As such, he needs a rest and to play domestic cricket in Australia and England.

 

[Cousin Jed]

Dreadful argument d_henderson.

So bad it was worthy of deleting.

 

[The Passenger]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...dition-dies-hard/story-e6frg7rx-1111118782315

IT was late at night at the Sydney Cricket Ground and already there had been one ambulance called to the Australian dressing-rooms.

It came to rescue a member of the support staff who had fallen down the stairs at the back of the members' stand and twisted an ankle.

Inside the rooms, Michael Clarke's stomach was twisting - into knots. He had an appointment. It wasn't with his fiancee, Lara Bingle, but with high-profile accountant Anthony Bell, book-keeper to the stars.

Captain Ricky Ponting doesn't insist on too much from his charges, but he insists they celebrate a win and Australia's win over South Africa was a big thing. It had been a tough summer, the team had already lost the series and it had been a great Test that had gone down to the wire.

It was about five hours after the game finished and Clarke wanted to go. The older members of the team weren't ready to pack up just yet and the rule is that nobody can go until the team song is sung by its custodian.

Start of sidebar. Skip to end of sidebar.

End of sidebar. Return to start of sidebar.

Things were heating up and about to get heated.

Traditions die hard.

Simon Katich and Clarke will get over the ensuing scuffle. You don't need to be a Carlton Football Club supporter to know that there are regular skirmishes among young men in hot-house environments. But there's a lingering unease in the wider camp.

Plenty of former players are quietly concerned about an erosion of tradition, a crumbling of a culture they held dear.

It doesn't help that the new mob are losing, too.

And the old men are wary when the vice-captain wears Prada. Never happened in their day. And nobody left the rooms before the team song was sung. Well, there was one incident, but we'll get back to that.

Traditions evolve too.

They fashion themselves from happenstance and circumstance.

The singing of the team song dates back to the 1970s.

Rod Marsh was certainly the first team member to do it regularly. He picked it up from his mate Ian Chappell, who told The Weekend Australian that he remembered an Australian friend of his in the Lancashire Cricket League used to drunkenly chant the refrain under the English moon.

Chappelli liked it and brought it home and sang it in front of Marsh, who liked it so much he jumped up on the table after the side won the first Test of the summer of 1974-75 in Brisbane and bellowed it at the top of his lungs:

Under the Southern Cross I Stand

A sprig of wattle in my hand,

A native of my native land,

Australia, you f..king beauty.

The cricketers liked it and Chappell thinks that after a while it started to become a regular part of winning a match.

Marsh was the initial custodian, then Allan Border, David Boon, Ian Healy, Ponting, Justin Langer (Tests), Adam Gilchrist (one-dayers) and finally Michael Hussey.

Border decided a captain couldn't sing it and that became tradition, too. If you got to be leader you handed it on. Another tradition was the custodian chose the next custodian.

In the early days it was sung soon after play, but over the decades the moment was dragged out. During the last Ashes tour it got really late because the players were often waiting for Andrew Flintoff to leave the room. The England captain apparently preferred the opposition's company and beer, and was rarely in a hurry to leave.

At the end of a series the singing could be left as late as 2am. At times it was done in the rooms, at other times on the centre wicket. Once it happened atop Table Mountain in Cape Town.

Over the years the song became sacred, somewhat like the Baggy Green. Once upon a time that was a cricket cap you swapped with English policemen for their helmets or wore to clean the pigeon coop. But under Mark Taylor and Steve Waugh it became an icon of the Australian cricket culture, a religious object to be revered and protected.

The tradition evolved over the years that a player could not leave the rooms until the song had been sung.

In Sydney last month, Clarke was getting anxious, it was around 10.30pm, he'd told Hussey he had to leave early and now he reminded him. Nobody, however, was in a real hurry. Sore limbs refused to move. Alcohol slowed everybody down further.

Peter Siddle was celebrating his first winning Test, Andrew McDonald and Doug Bollinger were celebrating their first Test. Matthew Hayden was looking around the rooms and wondering if this was the last time he would ever sit there, dirty, dusty and exhausted after five days in the field, the last of his mates around him. It was.

Clarke insisted and Katich stirred. He's old school, Katich. Brought into the team under Waugh he has quietly mourned the erosion of spirit as the Waughs, Langer, Gilchrist, Shane Warne and the giants of another era left.

There's a generational divide between Katich and Clarke. The latter might be the face of the new celebrity cricketer. There are designer outfits and luxury cars. The former is a quiet man who can't stand the bright lights.

One wore a nice cut of shirt for the famous cricketer's calendar shoot, the other bared his hairy chest and said he was making a stand against the metrosexuals who shaved theirs.

That was all a bit of fun. This wasn't. Neither is a big drinker and neither was drunk, but both were a bit tired and a bit cranky.

Katich told Clarke he should pull his head in, or words to that effect, Clarke told Katich in no uncertain terms that he wouldn't and gave him some gratuitous advice while he was at it.

Katich has a fearsome temper. The red mist descended. Suddenly he had Clarke by the scruff of the neck.

It was broken up quickly. Clarke left immediately, Katich apologised to Ponting and to the team manager and an uneasy calm descended.

The team song was finally sung, but by that stage Clarke was gone and the harmony was a little off-key.

There was some talk yesterday that it was the first time for many decades somebody had left the rooms in a huff before the song.

The last person to do it was one Stuart MacGill, who left the room after a win in the West Indies in 1999.

Clarke was acting captain in Melbourne yesterday and papered over the cracks of the blue during Nine's interview at the toss.

"A month ago Simon and I did have a disagreement, but that was sorted out there and then," Clarke said. "Katto and I are fine, we've spoken plenty of times, we had a good catch-up at the Allan Border medal and it was good, mate."

The Weekend Australian understands the patching up was commenced after the AB Medal on Tuesday and only when the story was picked up by News Limited newspapers.

Katich for his part wants the whole thing to go away and did not want to speak again yesterday.

A former custodian of the song told The Weekend Australian he was disturbed about the erosion of tradition and said he had seen it creeping into the team for some time; another said it didn't matter.

Healy said that it was no big deal, just a misunderstanding. Taylor shrugged it off.

"It was a scuffle in the change rooms," Taylor said on Nine. "They'll put that behind them, no problems."

The former captain added that he believed that Clarke had every right to leave after six hours in the change rooms.

"At the end of the day, it's not a big issue is it?" Taylor said.

Cricket Australia claims the incident has not affected Clarke's captaincy prospects.

"No, not at all as far we are concerned," said CA general manager of public affairs Peter Young.

"Yeah, there was a blue. It happened after the last day of the Sydney Test and those guys have since made up and moved on.

"From our point of view, as far we are concerned it is an issue between two individuals and they have resolved it and moved on.

"These things happen in even the best of families from time to time but everyone gets over it and moves on."

Tradition moves on too, and who knows, maybe when Clarke is captain everyone will get to bed early.

No jokes about designer baggy greens, please.