Analysis Umpires

[skadoosh]

I know I'm finding it hard to let the WC game go, but of all the bafflingly incorrect decisions, this is the one that galls me the most. Two arms wrapped around a player has been paid a feek-kick to the player being wrapped all year. It happened in again in tonight's Ade/Coll game, and you clearly hear the umpire say "holding - two arms wrapped around ..." when he paid the free-kick.

But not for this one:

View attachment 933240

OK, don't pay the free to Levi, it's a ruck contest, and they always wrestle. But to pay it against him, when all he's trying to do is release himself from the illegal contact ... huh? The mind boggles.

Wait...what was the actual free against Levi for??m
Levi has his hands on the guy's chest...trying to push away I'm assuming. And eagles has both hands wrapped around him? I'm am just baffled.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

Some fair twelve point turnarounds in those decisions.
Just from those highlights, there are three blatant poor umpiring decisions that result in direct shots on goal for WC. Both SPS tackles, and the Ryan dropping the ball.
There are two blatant non-decisions that have prevented shots on goals for Carlton. The Nic Nat dropping the ball and the double hand push in the back to Levi.

 

[OldBlueFan]

Wait...what was the actual free against Levi for??m
Levi has his hands on the guy's chest...trying to push away I'm assuming. And eagles has both hands wrapped around him? I'm am just baffled.

For being too strong? Who the f*** knows.

I think BT took a guess at something called "forceful contact" whatever the f*** that means.

Whatever the umpire paid, I'm not at all sure it's in the rule book.

 

[OnceWeWereKings]

For being too strong? Who the f*** knows.

I think BT took a guess at something called "forceful contact" whatever the f*** that means.

Whatever the umpire paid, I'm not at all sure it's in the rule book.

Paid blocking in the ruck contest I believe

 

[Jabba73]

Paid blocking in the ruck contest I believe

When does going for the ball become a block?

Makes it hard to push a player away if they have their arms wrapped around you and are hanging on, maybe one for the umpires department to explain.

 

[Sector 7G]

When does going for the ball become a block?

Makes it hard to push a player away if they have their arms wrapped around you and are hanging on, maybe one for the umpires department to explain.

I think Levi's problem was that he never touched the ball but prevented his man from getting there.

Inconsistently applied across the game

 

[JustaBattler]

It was an awful bunch of decisions that definitely impacted on the run of the game - just awful, especially in the context of how important (if unexpected) a win was as far as finals chances go.

What can you do though - if players can have a bad game so can ump, unfortunately - the blonde-haired one was particularly bad on the day as they say....

 

[OldBlueFan]

I think Levi's problem was that he never touched the ball but prevented his man from getting there.

Inconsistently applied across the game

That would have to have come after the WC player wrapped his arms around Levi, surely?

You can see in that shot, the ball is still in the air.

 

[Sector 7G]

That would have to have come after the WC player wrapped his arms around Levi, surely?

You can see in that shot, the ball is still in the air.

Ruck frees are a toss of the coin and most no-one in the stand knows which way the frees are going to be played

 

[Blue Pulse]

Just noticed how the WCE ‘S players ‘encourage’ the umps to pay holding the ball decisions. Quite a few around the ball were rotating both arms in a bowling motion to suggest it was holding the ball. This highlighted the tackle and created a sense of urgency for the ump to pay the free. It worked..

It's very Geelong like

 

[Love the Drake]

It's very Geelong like

You’d hope we are aware of this tactic and apply it from here on in.

Then watch our players get fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour

 

[Blue Pulse]

You’d hope we are aware of this tactic and apply it from here on in.

Then watch our players get fined for unsportsmanlike behaviour

I hate it, I get embarrassed when we do it, Murphy and Cripps do it a little, I can understand Cripps, but it is just a really poor look on the game

 

[NavySteel]

it also suggests the umpire was at the wrong side of the contest to make an accurate decision.

So it was a guess by the umpire that was "verified" by WCE players.

That is not impartial, and that is not acceptible.

 

[NavySteel]

I think Levi's problem was that he never touched the ball but prevented his man from getting there.

Inconsistently applied across the game

Levi's eyes were always on the ball - check the video. The case was made that he took his eyes off the ball and impeded contest but he was always following the ball all the way to the ground. Neither ruckmen made a jump for the ball because Levi was held and he shrugged off the hold. Levi was stronger in the contest, outright, and arguably should have had the free kick for being held (see Pitto getting pinged for holding against NN earlier - it was the same thing).

Levi played extremely well and his forward pressure was great.... and was not rewarded for it.

Marking isn't the only way for your FF to get a shot at goal.

Levi should have had at least 5 shots at goal with rewarded tackles/push in back/incorrect interpretation.

But also I'm just a schlepp watching it on TV...

 

[katmanblue]

You won't get my support there, either.

The AFL has created this situation, a moment in time in which individual umpires can be called out publicly as biased and/or bad at their jobs. What we're going through right now - umps being shithouse - is as much a result of the hubs and the changing conditions, as well as the inability to drop badly performing umpires as there's no second tier at present. And because of the murmuring ceasing to be just outside the range of hearing, we as a community are going to have a sh*t time getting local umpires at any level as we come out of the pandemic, because who the fu** would want to be an umpire?

You'd get more support/understanding if you were a public executioner.

What we need to do is use public pressure to force Hocking and Gill to resign. They are the causes of this problem; Hocking being responsible for the current coaching of umpires, allowing the courting of umps by players and clubs and creating the perception if not the actuality of partiality; Gill, because instead of his response to Clarkson's rant being to tell Clarko to shut his mouth and take care of his own house, he agrees - publicly - and changes the rules mid ******* season to accede to a current coach's wishes. He's singlemindedly taken a wrecking ball to tradition, he's allowed the rules committee to continue unchecked, and he's f’ed the game to the current status quo, in which what we are watching is not Australian Rules Footy!

Breathe.

This is not to say that Nathan Williamson is blameless. The followup 50 compounded his error. But we as a club should not be trying to interfere with umpiring in the competition; and no, it does not matter that anyone or everyone else does it. That excuse didn't work for Lance Armstrong either.

Was a tongue in cheek comment.

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[OldBlueFan]

Ruck frees are a toss of the coin and most no-one in the stand knows which way the frees are going to be played

I know they are. And in the usual wrestle scenario, I would agree that it's just a lottery and hard to judge which way it should go, if at all. But this one is a clear case of "this action (wrapping arms around your opponent) has been interpreted in a particular way all year, but in this one instance it's gone the other way".

Even if you think, as someone else suggested, that Levi has impeded the WC player - by blocking. You can equally argue that the WC player is also impeding Levi - by holding.

If you look at this one objectively, there can only be two possible outcomes: play on - because both are impeding the other, or a free to Levi for holding.

 

[katmanblue]

I think Levi's problem was that he never touched the ball but prevented his man from getting there.

Inconsistently applied across the game

His man was between him and the ball. WC player stopped Levi from getting to the ball.

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[katmanblue]

I hate it, I get embarrassed when we do it, Murphy and Cripps do it a little, I can understand Cripps, but it is just a really poor look on the game

At this point, who cares? If it's the only way to get a fair shake, then do it.

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[Gethelred]

Was a tongue in cheek comment.

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Yours might have been, but there are and were plenty either side of it that were not.

 

[Blue Pulse]

At this point, who cares? If it's the only way to get a fair shake, then do it.

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It's a poor look on the game and you look like a goose. Watch Ablett, Danger and Selwood and then watch the Eagles flaying their arms when they jumped on SPS. It looked like they were trying to fly and that was brought on by the first SPS decision being so poor.

The first SPS decision they were just as surprised as we were that the decision was paid for unrealistic attempt, when SPS couldn't even move his arms. The second, the umpire was conned into it because all the grown men were standing around doing a chicken dance

 

[katmanblue]

It's a poor look on the game and you look like a goose. Watch Ablett, Danger and Selwood and then watch the Eagles flaying their arms when they jumped on SPS. It looked like they were trying to fly and that was brought on by the first SPS decision being so poor.

Did they get the free kick and goal out of it?

How hard do we have to work to get a shot at goal?

If it's a bad look, that's the AFL's problem. If umpires are better none of the arm waving would make a difference. But it does.

It looks crap. But you know what looks good to the Eagles supporters? The 2018 premiership cup.


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[OldBlueFan]

So, after watching last night's Syd v GWS game (which just served to confirm suspicions from earlier games) our wonderful competion overlords have introduced yet another incosistency-inviting, interpretation-based approach to policing what used to be a hard and fast rule.

Now apparently, illegal disposal is not just a matter of "after taking possession, you must dispose of the ball either by a handpass or a kick". Were a handpass is deemed to be holding the ball in one hand and punching it clear with the other, as a closed fist. And a kick is making connection with the ball anywhere below the knee.

Now, if a player is being tackled, they just need to be deemed to have "made an attempt" to do one of the things listed above. In last night's game, there were several calls of "he tried, play on" when players completely failed to make connection with the ball either by hand or foot.

Seriously, WTF is this? Why take something that is completely black and white (determine if the player disposed of the ball correctly) and turn it into a "judgement call" (I think he tried to dispose of it legally)?

You can already see how this will play out with the clever (manipulative?) players and teams ... now they will just start working out how to make sure the "accidental" spill goes towards one of their teammates and not their opponents when they are caught in a good tackle. There was an example last night (and I'm not saying this one was deliberate) where the ball was literally thrown 10 feet clear of the pack because the player was being slung when the ball happened to come out. No contact with a fist or a foot, just a complete throw off the hand that was holding the ball.

This obsession with "keeping the ball moving" has made the stewards of what was once the greatest spectator sport in the world completely bats**t f*****g crazy!!! The game is truly becoming unwatchable now ...

 

[BluStreak]

The AFL has to bring the rules back to basics and remove the grey areas, i believe this would minimise the inconsistency that fans complain about.
The umpires need to have a set of codified rules at the start of every season that are not changed mid week all the time.
If changes are to occur they happen at the start or end of the season and only if there is an absolute glaring anomaly during the season.

I for one would also like to see a statement each week from the club saying that they have reviewed (with the umpires) the game,(football managers role) so that as a fan i know that the club has addressed that aspect of the performance.
Umpires should acknowledge their mistakes as that shows they are human and shows humility and will lead to improved respect from most fans. This is not about humiliation of umpires.

 

[KnaveyBlue]

The first SPS decision they were just as surprised as we were that the decision was paid for unrealistic attempt, when SPS couldn't even move his arms. The second, the umpire was conned into it because all the grown men were standing around doing a chicken dance

I actually thought the second SPS decision was ok.

Not sure I can blame them tho for how they carried on tho. When all the 50/50's are going your way, appealing wildly for even more becomes a valid tactic, sadly. They knew they were getting the rub of the green and were determined to make the most of it.

 

[Stamos]

So, after watching last night's Syd v GWS game (which just served to confirm suspicions from earlier games) our wonderful competion overlords have introduced yet another incosistency-inviting, interpretation-based approach to policing what used to be a hard and fast rule.

Now apparently, illegal disposal is not just a matter of "after taking possession, you must dispose of the ball either by a handpass or a kick". Were a handpass is deemed to be holding the ball in one hand and punching it clear with the other, as a closed fist. And a kick is making connection with the ball anywhere below the knee.

Now, if a player is being tackled, they just need to be deemed to have "made an attempt" to do one of the things listed above. In last night's game, there were several calls of "he tried, play on" when players completely failed to make connection with the ball either by hand or foot.

Seriously, WTF is this? Why take something that is completely black and white (determine if the player disposed of the ball correctly) and turn it into a "judgement call" (I think he tried to dispose of it legally)?

You can already see how this will play out with the clever (manipulative?) players and teams ... now they will just start working out how to make sure the "accidental" spill goes towards one of their teammates and not their opponents when they are caught in a good tackle. There was an example last night (and I'm not saying this one was deliberate) where the ball was literally thrown 10 feet clear of the pack because the player was being slung when the ball happened to come out. No contact with a fist or a foot, just a complete throw off the hand that was holding the ball.

This obsession with "keeping the ball moving" has made the stewards of what was once the greatest spectator sport in the world completely bats**t f*****g crazy!!! The game is truly becoming unwatchable now ...

100%

When they went to crack down on holding the ball, they cracked down on the wrong ones.
It's the incorrect disposal/dropping the ball which is the blight on the game, not the ones where the ball is locked in (which are easily resolved with a quick ball-up).

Instead we've got the ridiculous situation where Ryan can drop the ball for a goal, and Samo gets pinged because he didn't go through the charade of making a 'genuine attempt' in an impossible situation.