Umpiring

[Lord of the Wings]

When did North Korea become head of the Umpires association

Kim Jong-Un couldn't be any worse than Gilligan and Shocking. At least the umpires would be on notice - perform or disappear

 

[Lord of the Wings]

which umps are they sending to sydney for us

Shocking is going to fill in so they can save money by only having to send 2.

 

[tigs2010]

heck we got throated in 2019

 

[Del65166]

AFL threatens to suspend players, officials and coaches for umpire abuse

For those who criticise or approach umpires.

www.sen.com.au

LOL. So basically this fits the anti Richmond narrative. Just sit there get shafted and cop it. fu** off

I think Dimma answered a direct question at half time about the umpiring... “Six to 21 free kicks mate, it’s pretty hard to win the ball when you’re either second to the it or the count isn’t going our way,” he told Channel 7.
I thought he was insanely diplomatic in his response.
AFL, tell your Channel 7 and journos to not ask questions you don't want answers to. Problem solved.
But end of the day I think the main thing for Gil is that AFL is being talked about.

 

[SunshineBoy]

which umps are they sending to sydney for us

O’gorman, deboy and mollison

 

[biaseddustyfan]

O’gorman, deboy and mollison

Surely trolling

 

[crackertiger]

Clearly a stitch up from the AFL.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Surely trolling

Deboy certainly is, so it’s plain to see what will happen, someone will call him a cheat and get rubbed for life

 

[biaseddustyfan]

Deboy certainly is, so it’s plain to see what will happen, someone will call him a cheat and get rubbed for life

We should get the entire team and coach to sledge the umps and see what happens

 

[Swanks McSwankserton]

Hey haven't read through this whole thread so maybe someone did something similar but I was interested with the umpiring so I thought I'd look at some historical free kick ratios stats to round 10 of a season (since they started keeping track of free kicks in 1965, thanks afltables).

1. 1976 Hawthorn 65.9389%
2. 1977 North Melbourne 69.555%
3. 2021 Richmond 69.91%
4. 1992 Sydney 71.7131%
5. 1977 Hawthorn 72.6415%
6. 1965 Geelong 72.9814%
7. 1975 Hawthorn 73.3509%
8. 1972 Hawthorn 73.431%
9. 2018 Richmond 74.5902%
10. 1969 Carlton 75.4717%
11. 2006 Fremantle 76.2626%
12. 2003 Essendon 76.7442%
13. 2001 Hawthorn 76.9585%
14. 2020 Hawthorn 76.9608%
15. 2007 Adelaide 77.1574%
16. 2015 Geelong 78.3654%
17. 1967 Geelong 78.5714%
18. 2020 Geelong 78.5714%
19. 1991 Geelong 78.6942%
20. 1992 Geelong 78.7149%
21. 1987 Hawthorn 78.7302%
22. 2017 Greater Western Sydney 79.1045%
23. 1997 Sydney 79.4118%
24. 1996 Fremantle 79.5539%
25. 1975 Melbourne 79.7468%
26. 1991 Western Bulldogs 80.2281%
27. 1979 North Melbourne 80.2885%
28. 1971 Hawthorn 80.3758%
29. 2002 Essendon 80.3922%
30. 2017 Richmond 80.4545%

Looking at this (tldr):

• 12 of the top 30 worst ratios are this century.
• A quarter of that group (3/12) are us from the Dimmasty.
• 2017 Richmond is exactly #30 (why I chose top 30) @ 80.4%.
• 2018 Richmond is 9th @ 74.6%.
• 2019 Richmond didn't qualify for the list @ 90.8%.
• 2020 Richmond also doesn't qualify @ 91.1%.
• 2021 Richmond is 3rd @ 69.9%.

2021 and 2018 richmond are the only ones in the top 10 from this century (in fact you have to go back over 40 years to find 7 of the top 10 teams with that bad a ratio, u know, back b4 it was professional, it was 15m penalties not 50 and the avg amount of frees getting paid per game was literally twice as much as today).

So yeah Richmond this year worse than anybody has seen in a very long time.
We are setting a historically bad ratio here.

 

[Grrr]

Hey haven't read through this whole thread so maybe someone did something similar but I was interested with the umpiring so I thought I'd look at some historical free kick ratios stats to round 10 of a season (since they started keeping track of free kicks in 1965, thanks afltables).

1. 1976 Hawthorn 65.9389%
2. 1977 North Melbourne 69.555%
3. 2021 Richmond 69.91%
4. 1992 Sydney 71.7131%
5. 1977 Hawthorn 72.6415%
6. 1965 Geelong 72.9814%
7. 1975 Hawthorn 73.3509%
8. 1972 Hawthorn 73.431%
9. 2018 Richmond 74.5902%
10. 1969 Carlton 75.4717%
11. 2006 Fremantle 76.2626%
12. 2003 Essendon 76.7442%
13. 2001 Hawthorn 76.9585%
14. 2020 Hawthorn 76.9608%
15. 2007 Adelaide 77.1574%
16. 2015 Geelong 78.3654%
17. 1967 Geelong 78.5714%
18. 2020 Geelong 78.5714%
19. 1991 Geelong 78.6942%
20. 1992 Geelong 78.7149%
21. 1987 Hawthorn 78.7302%
22. 2017 Greater Western Sydney 79.1045%
23. 1997 Sydney 79.4118%
24. 1996 Fremantle 79.5539%
25. 1975 Melbourne 79.7468%
26. 1991 Western Bulldogs 80.2281%
27. 1979 North Melbourne 80.2885%
28. 1971 Hawthorn 80.3758%
29. 2002 Essendon 80.3922%
30. 2017 Richmond 80.4545%

Looking at this (tldr):

• 12 of the top 30 worst ratios are this century.
• A quarter of that group (3/12) are us from the Dimmasty.
• 2017 Richmond is exactly #30 (why I chose top 30) @ 80.4%.
• 2018 Richmond is 9th @ 74.6%.
• 2019 Richmond didn't qualify for the list @ 90.8%.
• 2020 Richmond also doesn't qualify @ 91.1%.
• 2021 Richmond is 3rd @ 69.9%.

2021 and 2018 richmond are the only ones in the top 10 from this century (in fact you have to go back over 40 years to find 7 of the top 10 teams with that bad a ratio, u know, back b4 it was professional, it was 15m penalties not 50 and the avg amount of frees getting paid per game was literally twice as much as today).

So yeah Richmond this year worse than anybody has seen in a very long time.
We are setting a historically bad ratio here.

I would love to know what the half time ratio's are, because like last week, we are normally shafted in the first halves of matches, the umps must read the numbers at half time and redress the balance to mitigate criticism.

 

[Maybenextyear]

Absolutely. If people think they don’t look at the free kick count at half time they are clueless. That game on the weekend was right up there with the cheating farce when we played Geelong late in 2017 at the cow paddock.

 

[Do the Dew]

Absolutely. If people think they don’t look at the free kick count at half time they are clueless. That game on the weekend was right up there with the cheating farce when we played Geelong late in 2017 at the cow paddock.

28-17 in the Cats favour that day. No idea what it was at half time.

Compared to right now, those are pretty good numbers! From recent memory, nothing beats 21-6 at half time with the game in the balance. That's astounding.

 

[Lsta062]

28-17 in the Cats favour that day. No idea what it was at half time.

Compared to right now, those are pretty good numbers! From recent memory, nothing beats 21-6 at half time with the game in the balance. That's astounding.

It was 20-7 at half-time in that 2017 Geelong KP game (courtesy of flashscore, which tracks stats per quarter). Link is here: https://www.flashscore.com.au/match/IPUAoGff/#match-summary/match-statistics/0

 

[Grrr]

28-17 in the Cats favour that day. No idea what it was at half time.

Compared to right now, those are pretty good numbers! From recent memory, nothing beats 21-6 at half time with the game in the balance. That's astounding.

You have to take into account that one of those free's Aarts had already marked before being smashed front on, which should have been a 50m. Another was from a deliberate, so in effect we had 4 free's for a half. Dimma should have quoted that at half time.

 

[VB_longneck]

I would love to know what the half time ratio's are, because like last week, we are normally shafted in the first halves of matches, the umps must read the numbers at half time and redress the balance to mitigate criticism.

they put us out of the game by half time lol

 

[Grrr]

they put us out of the game by half time lol

My other 'alf was right off me by half time and went to bed.... it's only a game or some crap like that. She should have stayed around, I was quite nice to be around after half time. (Actually thought we were going to get creamed in the last half and did well I thought to lose by 4-5 goals.)

 

[SplintWhisky]

AFL threatens to suspend players, officials and coaches for umpire abuse

For those who criticise or approach umpires.

www.sen.com.au

LOL. So basically this fits the anti Richmond narrative. Just sit there get shafted and cop it. fu** off

I would want someone to come out and be critical of the umps and when the AFL tries to suspend them I would hit them with the

I am pretty sure that if you do not name them directly or single them out then none of them could claim a defence to "Respect the rights and reputation of other persons"

 

[4tune8]

**** we got throated in 2019

The most outstanding thing about the comments is that whislt we might give away a lot of free kicks, the actual imbalance comes from having the least amount of frees awarded to us.
It's impossible to argue that our game style results in less frees for us and that's why it's never mentioned.

Good thing though come finals, we get a somewhat normal ratio of frees leading to a much better balance of contested possies. It's exactly the opposite of what used to happen to the filth, hence the name "Colliewobbles"

 

[smasha]

If this game is close at 3 quarter time,the umps will let their emotions get to them and go in dry.

Game should be put to bed by then but the Crows were good last week albeit in front of a rabid home crowd.

 

[smasha]

The most outstanding thing about the comments is that whislt we might give away a lot of free kicks, the actual imbalance comes from having the least amount of frees awarded to us.
It's impossible to argue that our game style results in less frees for us and that's why it's never mentioned.

Good thing though come finals, we get a somewhat normal ratio of frees leading to a much better balance of contested possies. It's exactly the opposite of what used to happen to the filth, hence the name "Colliewobbles"

Yes,the thing is,the frees are mostly all there,it’s when a Richmond player cops a swallowed whistle when they do exactly the same thing.

And the htb rule interpretation is a grey hole as wide as the ocean,umps can adjuducate that rule any way they like and still be right,the umpires interpret this rule in many different ways for the same actions on field,swallowed whistles,ball ups,delayed whistles,very quick whistle blows.

The htb rule needs to be less grey ,the umps can get away with alot on that rule alone by interpretating it any way they want.

 

[SunshineBoy]

Absolutely. If people think they don’t look at the free kick count at half time they are clueless. That game on the weekend was right up there with the cheating farce when we played Geelong late in 2017 at the cow paddock.

Umpwhores decide the outcome early then even up to avoid criticism

 

[SunshineBoy]

I would want someone to come out and be critical of the umps and when the AFL tries to suspend them I would hit them with the View attachment 1139088


I am pretty sure that if you do not name them directly or single them out then none of them could claim a defence to "Respect the rights and reputation of other persons"

nazi Germany stopped all dissent, same as Stalinist Russia and the People’s Republic of China, but hey live in a democratic country

 

[SplintWhisky]

View attachment 1137024

Ok so I was bored and decided to go full sperg for our season 21. Now I work in Finance and am not a statistician by any means of the imagination so this is very quick standard deviation workings.

Above are 3 tables. The top 2 are free kicks given away by the team when facing Richmond and GWS. The bottom is from the Brisbane game this past week.

Way to read the top 2 Tables. The table on the Left is Richmond games and the Table on the Right is GWS games. What is shown is the free kicks given away by their opponent.
Key:
FA: Frees against
Avg FA: Average frees against
Diff: The difference between the frees against vs that teams frees against for the season to round 10 (e.g in Round 1 Carlton gave away 15 free kicks and their season average is 20)
St Dev from mean: How many Standard Deviations away from the mean that figure is (basically the Z - Score)

Highlights from the top table:
- Over the season, the opponents we have played have given on average close to 1 standard deviation less frees when playing us
- The only team that has been screwed by the umps against us is Hawthorn who gave away close to 1 standard deviation more free kicks when playing against us
- GWS' (who have the best average free kick differential in the league at the moment) opponents on average give away .02 standard deviations more free kicks when playing against the Giants

Now I have only decided to show the Frees Against here because if I were to show Free For the opposition then the standard argument of "It is Richmond's game style to give away more frees" can be easily made to hand wave any results. So what the above table shows is that when teams play us they are on average guaranteed to give away close to 1 St Dev less frees. So to put this into context, this week against Adelaide we can expect around 14 - 15 free kicks for Richmond (Adelaide averages 20.5 frees against for the season and the St Dev is 5) based on the previous 10 games. Now I am not 100% sure if this is correct to show a bias, however it does to me. This is because the figures in the above tables are based solely on frees given away by teams when playing either Richmond or GWS. Basically when you play GWS you are more than likely going to give away your season's average in frees and when you play Richmond you are going to give away less frees.

Highlights from the Bottom Table
- Richmond gave away 1.8 St Dev more free kicks than average to Brisbane and received the season average
- Brisbane gave away .8 St Dev less free kicks whilst also receiving 2.2 St Dev more free kicks than their season average

We got bent over and told to bite the pillow because the umps are going in dry up at the Gabba. I believe that in this game, Brisbane, in theory, had a frees for tally that only 2.3% of their matches the season could beat. For frees against, only approximately 15.9% of their games this season will they give away less free kicks.

Conclusions
Like I have previously said, I do not like to look at the frees that Richmond give away. A lot of them (in my opinion) are there and it is stupid to cry about the 2-4 frees a game that are slightly dubious/not there. However, Richmond just don't get looked at by the umps when you compare them to their opposition. You can look at the free kick differential tallies that some people publish, but they are flawed. Having a huge differential like we do can easily be because we play on the edge and give away more legitimate frees. However, looking at the frees given away by the opposition when they play us and then comparing that to their season averages does yield some data for a conversation. Namely this, the opposition are routinely giving a decent amount less than their average free kicks away when they play Richmond. This can only lead me to conclude that there has to be some sort of bias here.

I would love for a Journo to work with Champion Data or even the club themselves to actually verify if I am correct or wrong and then to do a multi-year analysis on just the frees against. If Richmond were able to do this for all clubs and then bring it to the AFL's attention then I think an interesting conversation should be had.

TL DR: When Teams play Richmond, they give a decent amount less free kicks away than they normally would in 2021.

So I had a shower thought about the above analysis and thought of the arguments against it and the most prominent one was "Well maybe Richmond games are less officiated than the rest of the league". Well here we are:

AFL Average Total Free Kicks: 38.58 per game
Standard Deviation: 7.03

Total Average Free Kicks in Richmond Games: 38.40
Standard Deviation: 4.92

Richmond games vs the AFL Benchmark



Again, I am not a statistician, however when you line these numbers up with numbers in the below 2 tables you can see that when there are lower free kicks than the average, the majority of the time the team we are playing gets more than there average by a <1 St Dev but will give away close to 1 or more St Dev less



Again, this would be interesting stats that would be great if a journo did a proper analysis of it.

 

[Drunken Wookie]

Weird stat I wasn't expecting. Total frees AGAINST this season, no surprise 1st. BUT total frees FOR this season we sit 3rd. What's that tell us? Are our games in general just way over adjudicated?