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fidstar said:
Sounds like Centers couldn't defend him either, so I'm not sure if what you are saying actually means teams would be any worse off playing small ball.
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Well a 7 foot 280-300 pound bloke is gonna have more success at stopping Shaq. You put a bloke as small as LeBron or Draymond Green on him and he will ragdoll them.
 
fidstar said:
Sounds like Centers couldn't defend him either, so I'm not sure if what you are saying actually means teams would be any worse off playing small ball.
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True.

Just to chime in on the topic- i think it goes both ways. Teams use their big men less, because the game has moved away from that - so big men focus on different skills sets- which means teams use them less in the traditional roles... Its a downward spiral.

IMO once we start to see better two-way big men- which would argue only KG and Timmy really fit the bill over the last 10 years. Get a run of bigs like the 90s and we will see the game change again.
 
didaksrightfoot said:
True.

Just to chime in on the topic- i think it goes both ways. Teams use their big men less, because the game has moved away from that - so big men focus on different skills sets- which means teams use them less in the traditional roles... Its a downward spiral.

IMO once we start to see better two-way big men- which would argue only KG and Timmy really fit the bill over the last 10 years. Get a run of bigs like the 90s and we will see the game change again.
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It's coming.....

Okafor is the man :-D
 

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nufan said:
Big spooon out.
Draymond Green would not be anywhere near as good as he is on about other teams in the league. He would be good on the spurs because well Spurs
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Was beginning to think this the other day. The amount of space he gets on offence, particularly as the roll man is ridiculous. He's a good passer, but he gets so many assists from teams focusing their defence on Curry and Thompson.

His skills fit with Curry and the Warriors perfectly.
 
Thompson is actually a more unstoppable scorer than Steph. When he is on he can't be guarded because he's 6 foot 7 with a release above his head. He plays off the ball too which means he doesn't get doubled. At least with Steph he can be crowded and being 6 foot, having a shot release in front of his face and the fact he is often handling the ball (i.e. can be doubled), can at least be forced to give it up.
 
fidstar said:
Thompson is actually a more unstoppable scorer than Steph. When he is on he can't be guarded because he's 6 foot 7 with a release above his head. He plays off the ball too which means he doesn't get doubled. At least with Steph he can be crowded and being 6 foot, having a shot release in front of his face and the fact he is often handling the ball (i.e. can be doubled), can at least be forced to give it up.
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I respectfully disagree.

15/16 stats show 70% of Klays 2 point makes are assisted and 91% of 3's made are assisted.

Meanwhile Curry is 34% assisted on 2's and 62% assisted on 3.

(For comparison KD is 53% assisted on 2's and 67% assisted on 3's. Westbrook is 15% assisted on 2's and 33% assisted on 3's. Sounds good.... until you see the shooting stats)

Steph shoots better at the rim than Klay. (67 to 64) Astonishing given the height difference, even if it is a small margin.
By range comparison
5-9 feet - Curry (by 36%)
10-14 - even
15-19 feet - Curry (by 8%)
20-24 feet - Klay (just)

How many of these jumpers are assisted?

Klay 20-24 98%, 25-29 84%
Steph 20-24 67%, 25-29 60%

Curry is 58% in the paint, Klay is 32%.

Assisted to unassisted ratio
Klay 131/22
Steph 129/147

Only 34% of all Curry's 2 point makes are assisted. That is astounding for someone with his shooting percentages. He has an efg of 64% for god sake. And he has made 125 more shots than Klay unassisted in just 26 games.

The assisted by stats.

Klay - Curry 52, Green 39
Steph - Green 55, Iggy 25

So not only does Steph make more shots unassisted, he also assists on 30% of Klays made shots.
 
stewie griffen said:
I respectfully disagree.

15/16 stats show 70% of Klays 2 point makes are assisted and 91% of 3's made are assisted.

Meanwhile Curry is 34% assisted on 2's and 62% assisted on 3.

(For comparison KD is 53% assisted on 2's and 67% assisted on 3's. Westbrook is 15% assisted on 2's and 33% assisted on 3's. Sounds good.... until you see the shooting stats)

Steph shoots better at the rim than Klay. (67 to 64) Astonishing given the height difference, even if it is a small margin.
By range comparison
5-9 feet - Curry (by 36%)
10-14 - even
15-19 feet - Curry (by 8%)
20-24 feet - Klay (just)

How many of these jumpers are assisted?

Klay 20-24 98%, 25-29 84%
Steph 20-24 67%, 25-29 60%

Curry is 58% in the paint, Klay is 32%.

Assisted to unassisted ratio
Klay 131/22
Steph 129/147

Only 34% of all Curry's 2 point makes are assisted. That is astounding for someone with his shooting percentages. He has an efg of 64% for god sake. And he has made 125 more shots than Klay unassisted in just 26 games.

The assisted by stats.

Klay - Curry 52, Green 39
Steph - Green 55, Iggy 25

So not only does Steph make more shots unassisted, he also assists on 30% of Klays made shots.
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Nice stats. I didn't say Klay was a better scorer. I said he was a "more unstoppable" scorer. My point was if Steph is on he is easier to stop than if Klay is on (and remember I said "easier", not "easy" :p ). When Klay is on it feels like it's just really on him if he misses or not, nothing to do with the defender. The fact Klay plays off the ball (e.g. needs some one to assist him the ball) was one of my arguing points, so thanks for the stats to help back that up ;)
 
fidstar said:
Nice stats. I didn't say Klay was a better scorer. I said he was a "more unstoppable" scorer. My point was if Steph is on he is easier to stop than if Klay is on (and remember I said "easier", not "easy" :p ). When Klay is on it feels like it's just really on him if he misses or not, nothing to do with the defender. The fact Klay plays off the ball (e.g. needs some one to assist him the ball) was one of my arguing points, so thanks for the stats to help back that up ;)
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Yeah I was confused. You said Klay plays more off the ball and then stewie griffen backed you up by throwing down all those stats which helped your argument of Klay being assisted more than Steph.

But he started the post with "I respectfully disagree" I was very confused haha.
 
fidstar said:
Nice stats. I didn't say Klay was a better scorer. I said he was a "more unstoppable" scorer. My point was if Steph is on he is easier to stop than if Klay is on (and remember I said "easier", not "easy" :p ). When Klay is on it feels like it's just really on him if he misses or not, nothing to do with the defender. The fact Klay plays off the ball (e.g. needs some one to assist him the ball) was one of my arguing points, so thanks for the stats to help back that up ;)
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Hehe :D

My opinion is that a guy that can create his own shot is more 'unstoppable' as you can't go under the screen to give him the open look, if you go over he gets the option to drive, if you switch he can take the big off the dribble or shoot over him, and if you trap or double he finds the open man. And god forbid you help off him because he'll hit the open look.

And if he had the assisted on numbers of Klay?

God help us all

Be interested to see if there are stats on point streaks or consecutive makes, those sort of things somewhere
 

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jod23 said:
Yeah I was confused. You said Klay plays more off the ball and then stewie griffen backed you up by throwing down all those stats which helped your argument of Klay being assisted more than Steph.

But he started the post with "I respectfully disagree" I was very confused haha.
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I respectfully disagree that Klay is more unstoppable than Steph :D

I'd also be interested in lineup related stats. What does Klay score with and without Curry on the floor?

Who is he guarded by when he's going off
 
fidstar said:
When he's on, he comes around the screen and just shoots, doesn't even matter if someone is right there. The height and high release means it just doesn't matter.
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The look on the Kings players as he dropped those 37 in a qtr. They were literally all over him every shot and he still made them. Probably the most incredible thing I've ever seen.
 
philthy05 said:
The look on the Kings players as he dropped those 37 in a qtr. They were literally all over him every shot and he still made them. Probably the most incredible thing I've ever seen.
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I wasn't even mad, Stuaskas, McLemore and even Derrick Williams forced him immediately a step or two behind the three point line and he'd catch it off the screen and turn and let fly within the second, it just swished. Was amazing.
 
The Phoenix Suns are a good team with a promising future

fidstar said:
Dwight is still better than an average player.
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Trouble is that statement is accurate 1 game out of every 3 these days
 

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We shouldn't be changing rules to protect players who are just plain shit at a fundamental part of the game as shooting free throws



The one rule change I would have is that if you foul a player off the ball the team can choose whether the shots can be taken by the player fouled or the player on the team who had possession at the time of the foul.


But regardless of anything else if deadre Jordan is on the floor and gets fouled while in possession he gets shots like anything else and that's it ...


We don't try to lower the ring for the guys who can't jump.

We don't try to inhibit shot blockers cause ish smith is short.

We arnt asking to move the 3 point line closer cause some guys have shit range.



Like hell I want to see the league continue to help guys who can't learn one of the most basic skills in basketball.

If a team wants to play a limited guy who can't perform in an area let them suffer the consequences. No way should we protect that team.
 
philthy05 said:
We shouldn't be changing rules to protect players who are just plain shit at a fundamental part of the game as shooting free throws



The one rule change I would have is that if you foul a player off the ball the team can choose whether the shots can be taken by the player fouled or the player on the team who had possession at the time of the foul.
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So you don't want to change the rules to protect the player who can't shoot free throws, and then you suggest a rule that protects the player who can't shoot free-throws.


philthy05 said:
But regardless of anything else if deadre Jordan is on the floor and gets fouled while in possession he gets shots like anything else and that's it ...
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I don't think anyone wants to change that rule.

philthy05 said:
Like hell I want to see the league continue to help guys who can't learn one of the most basic skills in basketball.

If a team wants to play a limited guy who can't perform in an area let them suffer the consequences. No way should we protect that team.
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But... you just suggested a rule change to do exactly that. :confused:
 
fidstar said:
So you don't want to change the rules to protect the player who can't shoot free throws, and then you suggest a rule that protects the player who can't shoot free-throws.




I don't think anyone wants to change that rule.



But... you just suggested a rule change to do exactly that. :confused:
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I'm suggesting a rule that protects them less then where we are or may be headed.



At the moment aren't they protecting players like deandre by having any foul on them away from the ball under the two minute mark result in foul and possession ?

Aren't they discussing implementing harsher penalties next season ?

There is heaps of talk around it at the moment.

I think you have one rule ... If the foul is away from the ball the fouled player or player who was In possession can takes shots. And I would leave it there.

it gives teams with a bad free throw shooter some coverage Without completely covering over their deficiencies. You can still pressure a team who is fundamentally bad at free throws to execute that skill or not. You get the ball back if they cannot.

Giving them shots and possession is like saying hey we know you are crap at this part of the game so we are gonna give you a free pass like you're some incapable child.

i hate the stop start spectacle of intentional fouling but i hate trying to legislate a way around teams or players just being plain shit at a part of the game.

My rule suggestion still forces teams to make shots if they want to win. The current rule under two minutes , or all game as it may be next year can allow a team to miss their free throws and still win as they get possession.
 
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