In a special edition of versus this week (and to try and erase memory of last weekends poxy game) we will put into battle our two most devastating premiership sides of recent decades. The mighty back to back side of 1985 vs the all-conquering side of the year 2000. I don’t feel 1993 could be considered as the bulk of this year were still playing in the better 2000 side.
Context;
1985
Kevin Sheedy took over the reins of a poor Essendon in 1981 and steadily went about building a side after his own image. The club slowly gained momentum reaching the grand final in 1983, a game in which they were trounced by Hawthorn to the tune of 83 points. A hurt club bounced back to again make the grand final in 1984, again against Hawthorn who jumped out to an early lead and had all Essendon fans panicking again but in a stellar comeback Essendon went on to win by 24 points after trailing by 23 points at three quarter time. This paved the way for a dominant Essendon season, which culminated in a third grand final vs Hawthorn, a triumvirate that would sow the seeds of a fierce rivalry. This time Essendon would fully turn the tables from the 83 point drubbing in 1983, winning by 78 points. Leigh Matthews immediately retired and said he had just played the best side he has seen in his career. The football world was abuzz about the greatest football side that had been seen for many years, it was suggested they would go on to win more flags in the immediate future and it was wondered how they could be beaten. But they suffered a huge amount of injuries and player losses in the next phase and pretty much fell off the cliff while Hawthorn played in 5 of the next 6 grand finals.
2000
After winning the 1993 flag with the baby bombers the team went through a little trough. It could indicate the young team wasn’t ready and probably won the flag out of turn. There was however a strong nucleus of superstar players that were gaining experience by the season, they came again in 1996 but fell just short in two 1 point final victories then came again in the late 90s due to another stellar recruiting phase. In 1999 they were a fairly dominant side, ending the season on top of the ladder after only losing four games and were everybody’s flag elect but were stung by Carlton in the preliminary final by a point. This flag that got away hurt like hell and spurred the team onto greater heights in the 2000 season, sweeping all before them to go on and win the grand final by 65 points. Again the football world was abuzz about this super dominant side, wondering how many flags it would take and how it could possibly be beaten. The side suffered injuries and was picked apart due to the leagues equalisation policy (amongst other reasons) seeing the start of a steady decline for the club. Essendon would lose to Brisbane in the next grand final, a side that would go on to win three straight.
Stats;
1985 Essendon finished the season on top of the ladder losing three games. They had a % of 138.7 with 2755 points for (ave 125 per game) and 1991 against (ave 90.5)
2000 Essendon finished the season on top losing just one game. They had a % of159.21 with 2816 points for (ave 128 per game) and 1770 against. (ave 80)
1985 leading Essendon goalkicker was Mark Harvey with 48 goalsdue to our full forward Paul Salmon missing the bulk of the season.
2000 leading goal kicker was Matthew Lloyd with 109 goals
1985 highest Brownlow poller was Tim Watson with 15, he also won the best and fairest. The eventual winner Brad Hardie polled 24.
2000 highest Brownlow poller was James Hird with 16, eventual winner Shane Woewodin polled 22. Dustin Fletcher won the best and fairest.
Top 10 highest scores in 1985 were;
184, 176, 170, 166, 165, 153, 150, 146, 140, 114 (without an inj full forward)
Top 10 highest scores in 2000 were;
198, 169, 167, 165, 159, 156, 145, 144, 140, 137. (only fell under 100 pts 4 times)
Both amazing totals really.
Season;
Essendon was riding high in 1985 after winning its first flag in 24 years the previous year. It probably had every reason to have a hangover but it didn’t happen, they came out an even more polished, more determined unit. They were clearly the best team of the year but I reckon Footscray were probably the second best side and would have given us a close run in the final if they could have gotten over Hawthorn in the prelim. In fact Dougie Hawkins always thinks they would have won. They had a 100+ goal kicker that year in Beasley and the Brownlow medallist in Brad Hardie. But what they didn’t have was a black jumper with a red sash! We took all before us breaking record after record, and doing all this without the use of our gun full forward who was still nursing a busted knee after kicking 64 goals in 12 games the season prior (Salmon). In the Grand final vs the old enemy there was a ferocious all In brawl on centre wing that will be talked about for years, there were over a dozen players reported, Dermott Brereton famously dived into the pack knees first, but it must have spurred him on, he went on to break the grand final record, kicking 8 goals but also received 4 weeks for his antics in the brawl. But in the end we just ploughed through them kicking goal after goal kicking 11 in the last quarter to wipe them away. Salmon kicked 6 and Merrett 5.
Essendon’s 2000 season was all about redemption. Rumour has it after the bitter pill of the one point prelim loss in 99 Sheedy took all the players to the grand final then left at half time to a restaurant booking where a dossier was waiting for each player – Sheedy said OK, season 2000 starts now. They were a side so focussed, so arrogant, so determined that it was like a mechanism. Arrive, win, leave. We were so dominant teams were trying to think of ways to stifle us other than by playing football, this was when the term ‘flood’ was first coined. In the second half of the season teams would give up on the ball and just flood everybody back hoping for a slender margin. Some weeks it worked, and we were slightly stifled, and some it didn’t, and we completely blew them away. Essendon broke all records on a 20 game winning streak then came into round 21 vs the Western bulldogs, after a flood of biblical proportions, and a flukey left foot banana from Chris Grant after a dubious free kick our streak had ended. Sheedy used this moment for the rest of the season saying this is all it takes to lose a premiership, don’t let it happen again. We would not lose another game. In the qualifying final vs North we played in one of the most satisfying finals I can recall, Lloyd kicked his hundredth goal and we kicked 31.12.198 to completely dismantle probably our closest flag rival and reigning premier who managed 11.7.73. We again played Carlton in the prelim to much nervousness but this time did not allow them to get so close, chalking a 45 point win. The grand final was another cake walk, a 65 point victory putting a full stop on one of the most dominant seasons ever.
Strengths and weaknesses;
As with any premier weaknesses are obviously few so we can begin with the collective strengths, both sides had a beautiful balance of hard aggression and super skilled players. This is the balance you need to get right to win a flag. I don’t think you can succeed with one or the other of these two elements over powering another. They both also had that arrogance that comes with success, you can walk out onto the ground and be half way to victory before a ball has even been bounced because you can have the opponent mentally beat, plus you can have the upmost faith in yours and your team mates abilities to get it done. But to analyse these two further we will break them down into positions and try and find a victor.
Matchups;
Defence
Thompson-Weston-Duckworth
Foulds Walsh- Hawker
M Johnson – Fletcher – Wellman
Hardwick – Wallis – Soloman
I think this is a clear win to the year 2000. This defence is as hard as nails, the likes of Johnson, Hardwick, Wallis and Soloman never gave an inch and had opponents around them in fear of their safety around a contest. Complementing this is the intercept marking, surety and underrated rebound of Sean Wellman and the Brilliance of negating and rebounding of Dustin Fletcher. If anything they may have lacked a small forward smotherer but we were far too busy winning our own ball.
1985 backline while still good feels more workmanlike, Bomber, Foulds and Weston to a less extent were meat and potatoes types of players, Walsh was the Sheedy pet that he grew just to run with Brereton but could be a liability at times. Hawker was a great marauding type and Billy the bus driver had a bit of x factor about him in a blokey kind of way, could make things happen when around the ball at both ends.
Forwards
Daniher – Merrett – Harvey
Baker – Salmon - VanDerHaar
Mercuri – Lucas – Hird
Bewick – Lloyd - Ramanaskas
Tougher to assess this one, you have a handful of our all times greats in the mix here. Essendon royalty. Gee we have a Brownlow medallist, a guy who kicked near on 1000 goals, a guy who kicked nearly 500 and two of the more skilled guys to have played the game but I still can’t give a win to the 2000 set up! That’s a huge call but just look at the 1985 line up. Roger Merrett hard as nails, laser like shot for goal, huge presence. Salmon the tough tall match up who could be a nightmare for oppositions on his day, Baker the elusive, silky crumb man cum midfielder, Harvey the fearless finisher who also swung back, Van der Haar the laconic genius who could mark better than most after a steak and eggs breakfast with 2 ciggies and last but not least the captain, the heartbeat, tough as nails, skilled, driven, rarely beaten one v one whether forward or back, TD. I’m really interested to see where you guys rate these two forward lines but I suppose a forward line is only as good as its delivery! Enter the midfields…
Midfield
Wood- Watson –Clarke
Madden – Williams – Elshaug
Heffernan – Misiti – Caracella
Barnes – Blumfield – J Johnson
Starting with the rucks, this will probably go down as a weakness for the 2000 side, not that it was a flaw but it wasn’t a star studded position whereas Madden, the norm smith medallist was the greatest ruckman of his generation, providing silver service to our midfield. The 2000 set up of Barnes and Alessio from the bench was adequate.
The more I look at the 2000 midfield now it feels very one paced, I don’t actually see any zip whatsoever in it, but what it did have was class by the bucket load and a tenacious hard man in Jason Johnson who was very underrated. Probably save for Watson its similar for the 85 set up but pace wasn’t always a necessity in those times. I think it’s a pretty clear victory for the 2000 midfield in sheer class.
Coming off the bench for 2000 were Long, Alessio, Barnard and Moorcroft. Two players there who could tear a game apart on their day in Moorcroft and Long and a couple of role players in big Sess and Barny. Carey and Ezard came off the bench for 85 in older times when the poor lads may sit in their dressing gowns for over half a game and were not always a factor.
I suppose when trying to rate teams you are best not to do it by comparing the best, rather you should rate their bottom few players each. A team is only as strong as its weakest link.
Team 2000 was always much vaunted for its depth and even coverage of stars across the ground, never before had a team been assembled with so much quality at one time.
Arguably the bottom few players could be Wallis, Barnard, Long (veteran) Bewick (veteran) Alessio. Clearly players that would walk into most sides.
Likewise with 85, it was a talent laden side where it’s hard to find ‘lesser’ players, its more like finding role players that were not bombastically brilliant like their team mates, maybe the likes of Nobby Clarke, Kevin Walsh or Stephen Carey.
Verdict
Most things point to a year 2000 victory here but I’d like to put a few things into perspective. 1985 was a back to back victory, a feat that is very difficult to achieve. For all of 2000s dominance they only won one flag, total. I think this needs to be factored in. 1985 was the culmination of a super period of success where we went from being a laughing stock club to the most feared club in the game. 2000 missed an opportunity in 99, shone bright in 2000 then already began to fade in 01. What really irks me is that the brilliance of our side in 2000 was pretty much immediately wiped from people memories by a side that went on to win the next three flags, becoming ‘the greatest’. I still think our 2000 side was better than any side they dished up but I guess it’s a moot point, they won three flags and we didn’t.
It can also be argued 1985 won its back to back flags in a more competitive era when there were two to three other strong sides where as the year 2000 may have been called a down year where our competition had a flat point. Did we create that flat point with our dominance? Possibly, but as they say you can only beat who is put in front of you and we did that, routinely and mercilessly.
It’s hard to compare two flag sides, like trying to choose your favourite kid. (That’s easier, my boy all day long!) (sorry liv don’t read this)
At the time 1985 felt so good, so so good. After a period of no success to have that thrust upon you was intoxicating! Sometimes 2000 felt a bit mundane, I sometimes had the horrible thought that I wanted a close game! That’s when you know you are good, when winning is a chore. That does it, win to 2000!
I’d love to hear your thoughts, memories , experiences or clips of these two great sides.
85 Brawl
2000 scuffle - pedestrian really!
Context;
1985
Kevin Sheedy took over the reins of a poor Essendon in 1981 and steadily went about building a side after his own image. The club slowly gained momentum reaching the grand final in 1983, a game in which they were trounced by Hawthorn to the tune of 83 points. A hurt club bounced back to again make the grand final in 1984, again against Hawthorn who jumped out to an early lead and had all Essendon fans panicking again but in a stellar comeback Essendon went on to win by 24 points after trailing by 23 points at three quarter time. This paved the way for a dominant Essendon season, which culminated in a third grand final vs Hawthorn, a triumvirate that would sow the seeds of a fierce rivalry. This time Essendon would fully turn the tables from the 83 point drubbing in 1983, winning by 78 points. Leigh Matthews immediately retired and said he had just played the best side he has seen in his career. The football world was abuzz about the greatest football side that had been seen for many years, it was suggested they would go on to win more flags in the immediate future and it was wondered how they could be beaten. But they suffered a huge amount of injuries and player losses in the next phase and pretty much fell off the cliff while Hawthorn played in 5 of the next 6 grand finals.
2000
After winning the 1993 flag with the baby bombers the team went through a little trough. It could indicate the young team wasn’t ready and probably won the flag out of turn. There was however a strong nucleus of superstar players that were gaining experience by the season, they came again in 1996 but fell just short in two 1 point final victories then came again in the late 90s due to another stellar recruiting phase. In 1999 they were a fairly dominant side, ending the season on top of the ladder after only losing four games and were everybody’s flag elect but were stung by Carlton in the preliminary final by a point. This flag that got away hurt like hell and spurred the team onto greater heights in the 2000 season, sweeping all before them to go on and win the grand final by 65 points. Again the football world was abuzz about this super dominant side, wondering how many flags it would take and how it could possibly be beaten. The side suffered injuries and was picked apart due to the leagues equalisation policy (amongst other reasons) seeing the start of a steady decline for the club. Essendon would lose to Brisbane in the next grand final, a side that would go on to win three straight.
Stats;
1985 Essendon finished the season on top of the ladder losing three games. They had a % of 138.7 with 2755 points for (ave 125 per game) and 1991 against (ave 90.5)
2000 Essendon finished the season on top losing just one game. They had a % of159.21 with 2816 points for (ave 128 per game) and 1770 against. (ave 80)
1985 leading Essendon goalkicker was Mark Harvey with 48 goalsdue to our full forward Paul Salmon missing the bulk of the season.
2000 leading goal kicker was Matthew Lloyd with 109 goals
1985 highest Brownlow poller was Tim Watson with 15, he also won the best and fairest. The eventual winner Brad Hardie polled 24.
2000 highest Brownlow poller was James Hird with 16, eventual winner Shane Woewodin polled 22. Dustin Fletcher won the best and fairest.
Top 10 highest scores in 1985 were;
184, 176, 170, 166, 165, 153, 150, 146, 140, 114 (without an inj full forward)
Top 10 highest scores in 2000 were;
198, 169, 167, 165, 159, 156, 145, 144, 140, 137. (only fell under 100 pts 4 times)
Both amazing totals really.
Season;
Essendon was riding high in 1985 after winning its first flag in 24 years the previous year. It probably had every reason to have a hangover but it didn’t happen, they came out an even more polished, more determined unit. They were clearly the best team of the year but I reckon Footscray were probably the second best side and would have given us a close run in the final if they could have gotten over Hawthorn in the prelim. In fact Dougie Hawkins always thinks they would have won. They had a 100+ goal kicker that year in Beasley and the Brownlow medallist in Brad Hardie. But what they didn’t have was a black jumper with a red sash! We took all before us breaking record after record, and doing all this without the use of our gun full forward who was still nursing a busted knee after kicking 64 goals in 12 games the season prior (Salmon). In the Grand final vs the old enemy there was a ferocious all In brawl on centre wing that will be talked about for years, there were over a dozen players reported, Dermott Brereton famously dived into the pack knees first, but it must have spurred him on, he went on to break the grand final record, kicking 8 goals but also received 4 weeks for his antics in the brawl. But in the end we just ploughed through them kicking goal after goal kicking 11 in the last quarter to wipe them away. Salmon kicked 6 and Merrett 5.
Essendon’s 2000 season was all about redemption. Rumour has it after the bitter pill of the one point prelim loss in 99 Sheedy took all the players to the grand final then left at half time to a restaurant booking where a dossier was waiting for each player – Sheedy said OK, season 2000 starts now. They were a side so focussed, so arrogant, so determined that it was like a mechanism. Arrive, win, leave. We were so dominant teams were trying to think of ways to stifle us other than by playing football, this was when the term ‘flood’ was first coined. In the second half of the season teams would give up on the ball and just flood everybody back hoping for a slender margin. Some weeks it worked, and we were slightly stifled, and some it didn’t, and we completely blew them away. Essendon broke all records on a 20 game winning streak then came into round 21 vs the Western bulldogs, after a flood of biblical proportions, and a flukey left foot banana from Chris Grant after a dubious free kick our streak had ended. Sheedy used this moment for the rest of the season saying this is all it takes to lose a premiership, don’t let it happen again. We would not lose another game. In the qualifying final vs North we played in one of the most satisfying finals I can recall, Lloyd kicked his hundredth goal and we kicked 31.12.198 to completely dismantle probably our closest flag rival and reigning premier who managed 11.7.73. We again played Carlton in the prelim to much nervousness but this time did not allow them to get so close, chalking a 45 point win. The grand final was another cake walk, a 65 point victory putting a full stop on one of the most dominant seasons ever.
Strengths and weaknesses;
As with any premier weaknesses are obviously few so we can begin with the collective strengths, both sides had a beautiful balance of hard aggression and super skilled players. This is the balance you need to get right to win a flag. I don’t think you can succeed with one or the other of these two elements over powering another. They both also had that arrogance that comes with success, you can walk out onto the ground and be half way to victory before a ball has even been bounced because you can have the opponent mentally beat, plus you can have the upmost faith in yours and your team mates abilities to get it done. But to analyse these two further we will break them down into positions and try and find a victor.
Matchups;
Defence
Thompson-Weston-Duckworth
Foulds Walsh- Hawker
M Johnson – Fletcher – Wellman
Hardwick – Wallis – Soloman
I think this is a clear win to the year 2000. This defence is as hard as nails, the likes of Johnson, Hardwick, Wallis and Soloman never gave an inch and had opponents around them in fear of their safety around a contest. Complementing this is the intercept marking, surety and underrated rebound of Sean Wellman and the Brilliance of negating and rebounding of Dustin Fletcher. If anything they may have lacked a small forward smotherer but we were far too busy winning our own ball.
1985 backline while still good feels more workmanlike, Bomber, Foulds and Weston to a less extent were meat and potatoes types of players, Walsh was the Sheedy pet that he grew just to run with Brereton but could be a liability at times. Hawker was a great marauding type and Billy the bus driver had a bit of x factor about him in a blokey kind of way, could make things happen when around the ball at both ends.
Forwards
Daniher – Merrett – Harvey
Baker – Salmon - VanDerHaar
Mercuri – Lucas – Hird
Bewick – Lloyd - Ramanaskas
Tougher to assess this one, you have a handful of our all times greats in the mix here. Essendon royalty. Gee we have a Brownlow medallist, a guy who kicked near on 1000 goals, a guy who kicked nearly 500 and two of the more skilled guys to have played the game but I still can’t give a win to the 2000 set up! That’s a huge call but just look at the 1985 line up. Roger Merrett hard as nails, laser like shot for goal, huge presence. Salmon the tough tall match up who could be a nightmare for oppositions on his day, Baker the elusive, silky crumb man cum midfielder, Harvey the fearless finisher who also swung back, Van der Haar the laconic genius who could mark better than most after a steak and eggs breakfast with 2 ciggies and last but not least the captain, the heartbeat, tough as nails, skilled, driven, rarely beaten one v one whether forward or back, TD. I’m really interested to see where you guys rate these two forward lines but I suppose a forward line is only as good as its delivery! Enter the midfields…
Midfield
Wood- Watson –Clarke
Madden – Williams – Elshaug
Heffernan – Misiti – Caracella
Barnes – Blumfield – J Johnson
Starting with the rucks, this will probably go down as a weakness for the 2000 side, not that it was a flaw but it wasn’t a star studded position whereas Madden, the norm smith medallist was the greatest ruckman of his generation, providing silver service to our midfield. The 2000 set up of Barnes and Alessio from the bench was adequate.
The more I look at the 2000 midfield now it feels very one paced, I don’t actually see any zip whatsoever in it, but what it did have was class by the bucket load and a tenacious hard man in Jason Johnson who was very underrated. Probably save for Watson its similar for the 85 set up but pace wasn’t always a necessity in those times. I think it’s a pretty clear victory for the 2000 midfield in sheer class.
Coming off the bench for 2000 were Long, Alessio, Barnard and Moorcroft. Two players there who could tear a game apart on their day in Moorcroft and Long and a couple of role players in big Sess and Barny. Carey and Ezard came off the bench for 85 in older times when the poor lads may sit in their dressing gowns for over half a game and were not always a factor.
I suppose when trying to rate teams you are best not to do it by comparing the best, rather you should rate their bottom few players each. A team is only as strong as its weakest link.
Team 2000 was always much vaunted for its depth and even coverage of stars across the ground, never before had a team been assembled with so much quality at one time.
Arguably the bottom few players could be Wallis, Barnard, Long (veteran) Bewick (veteran) Alessio. Clearly players that would walk into most sides.
Likewise with 85, it was a talent laden side where it’s hard to find ‘lesser’ players, its more like finding role players that were not bombastically brilliant like their team mates, maybe the likes of Nobby Clarke, Kevin Walsh or Stephen Carey.
Verdict
Most things point to a year 2000 victory here but I’d like to put a few things into perspective. 1985 was a back to back victory, a feat that is very difficult to achieve. For all of 2000s dominance they only won one flag, total. I think this needs to be factored in. 1985 was the culmination of a super period of success where we went from being a laughing stock club to the most feared club in the game. 2000 missed an opportunity in 99, shone bright in 2000 then already began to fade in 01. What really irks me is that the brilliance of our side in 2000 was pretty much immediately wiped from people memories by a side that went on to win the next three flags, becoming ‘the greatest’. I still think our 2000 side was better than any side they dished up but I guess it’s a moot point, they won three flags and we didn’t.
It can also be argued 1985 won its back to back flags in a more competitive era when there were two to three other strong sides where as the year 2000 may have been called a down year where our competition had a flat point. Did we create that flat point with our dominance? Possibly, but as they say you can only beat who is put in front of you and we did that, routinely and mercilessly.
It’s hard to compare two flag sides, like trying to choose your favourite kid. (That’s easier, my boy all day long!) (sorry liv don’t read this)
At the time 1985 felt so good, so so good. After a period of no success to have that thrust upon you was intoxicating! Sometimes 2000 felt a bit mundane, I sometimes had the horrible thought that I wanted a close game! That’s when you know you are good, when winning is a chore. That does it, win to 2000!
I’d love to hear your thoughts, memories , experiences or clips of these two great sides.
85 Brawl
2000 scuffle - pedestrian really!
