Veterans List Possibilities ???

[THE_GUN]

OK Guys not exactly sure of the rules and thats mainly the reason for this thread as well as a possibility that i would like opinions on.

My understanding is that the 30 yo age restriction has been removed from the criteria of being eligible for the veterans list and its only 10 years of service thats required now (please forgive if wrong) and the players that would be eligible are Newman,Tuck,Jackson,Foley & Deledio/McGuane the following year

If this is correct the question that i would like to ask is this,There will be a couple of extremely unlucky players to be delisted from the senior list if this criteria isnt correct. The only obvious delisting i can see is Tom Derickx and possible free agency/delisting of luke mcguane (would be unlucky if delisted this year after a reasonable year) as well as Matty White

Certain delistings i see
Robin Nahas ( Traded I believe- Days are numbered & Papers stamped)
Tom Derickx (not good enough)
Ben Darrou (Too Short for kpd and we have enough options) could be kept for 2nds team
Steven Verrier ( again been on the rookie list a few years and doesnt look upto it)
Sam Lonergan ( Good for Richmonds 2nds team But not best 30-35)
Orren Stephenson ( Again Richmonds 2nds team but Vickery will need to be confirmed as 2nd Ruck)

OK The question is Could it be possible that this year we will only delist the players i mentioned and move Newman,Tuck,Jackson onto the Veterans list which would effectively give us 4 Draft picks and 2 PSD pick or 1PSD/1Rookie Pick

This way we retain experienced & Loyal players that would be unlucky this year to be sacked,Give us great depth and still have the ability to draft the kids we require to continue the influx of talent

Gee i really hope i explained this well as im not a great wordsmith

 

[Harmichael]

I can't see White being delisted now. (personally I won't be upset if he is, but it's highly unlikely.)

Be very disappointed if Darrou's delisted. He's around the same size as Josh Gibson with similar attributes and from all reports was rarely getting beaten at Coburg before his injury. The club however seems to have had very little patience with rookies not named Miller in recent years.

As I've said before, Lonergan's best chance of being retained is if Tuck retires.

Got a bad feeling we're going to hang on to McGoof yet again as well, unless he himself decides to leave as a free agent. Either way, I think Edwards will get the arse before him. I'd be staggered if we retained them both.

 

[THE_GUN]

Agree with your opinion on the delistings Harmichael,But We still have to delist min 3 players but likely 4-5
The question i would like answered is this

Would we be likely to move Newman,Foley,Tuck to the veterans list and delist the players mentioned to keep players like McGuane,White & Perhaps Griffiths or Helbig on the list and still draft the kids

 

[Harmichael]

Agree with your opinion on the delistings Harmichael,But We still have to delist min 3 players but likely 4-5
The question i would like answered is this

Would we be likely to move Newman,Foley,Tuck to the veterans list and delist the players mentioned to keep players like McGuane,White & Perhaps Griffiths or Helbig on the list and still draft the kids

You'd think Newman would surely be moved to the vet's list, thing is he's been eligible since last year and still hasn't - something to do with it effecting how many you can have on the rookie list I think - so I can't see the club rushing to move Foley or Tuck over straight away.

Speaking of rookies - just read the Swans have followed Norf's lead and taken a punt on one of those big yank basketballers as an international rookie. Hope we follow suit.

 

[Mr Magic]

OK Guys not exactly sure of the rules and thats mainly the reason for this thread as well as a possibility that i would like opinions on.

My understanding is that the 30 yo age restriction has been removed from the criteria of being eligible for the veterans list and its only 10 years of service thats required now (please forgive if wrong) and the players that would be eligible are Newman,Tuck,Jackson,Foley & Deledio/McGuane the following year

If this is correct the question that i would like to ask is this,There will be a couple of extremely unlucky players to be delisted from the senior list if this criteria isnt correct. The only obvious delisting i can see is Tom Derickx and possible free agency/delisting of luke mcguane (would be unlucky if delisted this year after a reasonable year) as well as Matty White

Certain delistings i see
Robin Nahas ( Traded I believe- Days are numbered & Papers stamped)
Tom Derickx (not good enough)
Ben Darrou (Too Short for kpd and we have enough options) could be kept for 2nds team
Steven Verrier ( again been on the rookie list a few years and doesnt look upto it)
Sam Lonergan ( Good for Richmonds 2nds team But not best 30-35)
Orren Stephenson ( Again Richmonds 2nds team but Vickery will need to be confirmed as 2nd Ruck)

OK The question is Could it be possible that this year we will only delist the players i mentioned and move Newman,Tuck,Jackson onto the Veterans list which would effectively give us 4 Draft picks and 2 PSD pick or 1PSD/1Rookie Pick

This way we retain experienced & Loyal players that would be unlucky this year to be sacked,Give us great depth and still have the ability to draft the kids we require to continue the influx of talent

Gee i really hope i explained this well as im not a great wordsmith

Firstly, well done on raising a relevant thread

The options are not great I agree. Our playing list is stronger than it has been for years making listing decisions more difficult than most.

Atm I am leaning this way:

No brainers, Lonergan, Derickx(haven't seen enough so assume hasn't done enough HSESAHDE), Nahas probably able to trade for something little to a another club.

I am happy to keep Orren S for another season as value Ruck back up as we should have a better idea how our big guys are developing end of next year unless we snag a Currie or Grimley at value.

Then I would be looking at trade options on a age/needs basis. We could be able to get something for McGuane as a forward from another club, I wouldn't de-list White but he might be a win-win as a trade and a few others might be tradable.

I wouldn't trade Griffiths atm because I think you would not get much for him. Better to keep him and see what happens next year with development. Next year we will have a better idea where Astbury/McBean,TV,Elton and even Chaplin and Grimes are at to when you have to worry about injures etc.. and be in a better position to make wiser smarter decisions end of 2014 IMO

Others might be in the HSESAHDE category but when you do not see them, and with injuries, you do not know what you do not know for a lot of it IMO.

For me how a player is playing now is obviously relevant but not as much as how we project that player will play in 2014, 2015, 2016 etc...

Some say the draft is that great in 2013, maybe they are right , but if we can trade to get a few high picks and pick up a Garlett as well as a Marsh, or Salem etc.. that will help us keep our list together paying Dusty/Conca etc.. in terms of educing overall player payments

I think next year Tuck may well retire, A Edwards may well no longer be needed and others we will be in a better position to make an assessment one way or the other as well as others might fell other options are more suitable

I agree with the last poster to, we are behind the 8 ball with international rookies, we need to pull the finger out of the proverbial in this regard IMO

 

[JustTheTonic]

Delist:
Tom Derickx
Steven Verrier
G. Simon
C. Williams also a possibility to be delisted (body not up to it?)

Trade:
Robin Nahas
Griffiths

Keep for depth:
McGuane (or trade)
Sam Lonergan
Orren Stephenson
A. Edwards (or delist)

Retires:
Tuck

Newman, Jackson onto the Veterans list.

White is in career best form and should stay.

 

[DustinsGuns]

Veterans List:
Jackson (2013 is his tenth year)
Newman

Retire:
Tuck

Delist:
Derickx
A Edwards
Lonergan (r)
Stephenson (r)
Verrier (r)
Simon (r)

Trade/Delist:
Nahas
Griffiths

Promote:
Petterd

That leaves us with 7 off the main list + 1 promoted on. Newman and Jackson fill Longergan and Stephesons "rookie spots" as veterans do. This will leave us with 6 picks for the National/PS draft and one for the Rookie draft.

6 picks may be too many, so we may opt to leave one of Newman/Jackson on the senior list or retain Griffiths/Nahas.

 

[TigermanM2]

Veterans List:
Jackson (2013 is his tenth year)
Newman

Has to also be 30 years of age so that rules out Jacko for 3 years. I fell for that one too.

32.2.2 Eligibility

A Player is eligible to be nominated as a Veteran under this Rule 32.2 if the Player:


(i) is 30 years of age or older as at 30 September during the relevant AFL Season; and

(ii) has been included on the relevant Club’s List (excluding the Rookie List), for a period of 10 complete Football Years. For the avoidance of doubt, this includes Rookie List Players who have been included on the relevant Club’s List as Nominated Rookies.


The other problem is that once you list a veteran, he remains a veteran until you delist him. This means that even though a player may qualify as a veteran you may be better to hold off if another better paid player become eligible a year or so later. Eg making Jacko a veteran when Dids qualifies a year later.

 

[fargothegreat]

I thought they changed the veterans list rules so that you could have an unlimited amount, but they stayed on the senior list and only 100k of their salary was paid outside the cap

 

[TigermanM2]

This is as at February 2013. I stand corrected but I don't think there has been any alterations.

32.2.4 Treatment of Football Payments



For Total Player Payment purposes, a proportion (as set out in the following table) of Football Payments to each Veteran nominated under Rule 32.2.3 shall be excluded from Total Player Payments, such proportion to vary depending on the number of Veterans at each Club:


Veterans/Percentage of Football Payments Excluded from TPP
1 - 50
2 - 50
3 - 331/3
4 - 25
5 -20
Any number greater than 5 - 100 divided by number of Veterans


Here's a link to the document:

http://www.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Rules_-_Feb_2013_FINAL.pdf

 

[fargothegreat]

So Newman and Tuck are the only players we have that are eligible.

Does anyone know if veterans are still counted outside the senior list? I'm pretty sure they're not

 

[theflea]

The veterans list has changed in this new cba deal. You can have as many vets who qualify but only have I think 112k reduction in salary. they are still included in your senior listed players, they aren't outside your list. This is why the cats had a lot of cash to throw around last year as they have a lot of players in this category.

 

[johnno77]

The veterans list has changed in this new cba deal. You can have as many vets who qualify but only have I think 112k reduction in salary. they are still included in your senior listed players, they aren't outside your list. This is why the cats had a lot of cash to throw around last year as they have a lot of players in this category.

I'm convinced this is part of the reason the cats haven't bottomed out like others have. The flow on affect of their guns staying for less money is that when they become 10 year players (and the Cats have a stack) they can invest more to hang onto promising kids while not stitching up their champions.

We will lose this ability if we bring in too many mature free agents. Geelong, is there anything that you don't do well?

 

[Harmichael]

The veterans list has changed in this new cba deal. You can have as many vets who qualify but only have I think 112k reduction in salary. they are still included in your senior listed players, they aren't outside your list. This is why the cats had a lot of cash to throw around last year as they have a lot of players in this category.

Doesn't the more players you have on the vet's list mean the less rookies you can take? Why wasn't Newman moved over as soon as he eligible?

 

[NUFC Tiger]

OK Guys not exactly sure of the rules and thats mainly the reason for this thread as well as a possibility that i would like opinions on.

My understanding is that the 30 yo age restriction has been removed from the criteria of being eligible for the veterans list and its only 10 years of service thats required now (please forgive if wrong) and the players that would be eligible are Newman,Tuck,Jackson,Foley & Deledio/McGuane the following year

If this is correct the question that i would like to ask is this,There will be a couple of extremely unlucky players to be delisted from the senior list if this criteria isnt correct. The only obvious delisting i can see is Tom Derickx and possible free agency/delisting of luke mcguane (would be unlucky if delisted this year after a reasonable year) as well as Matty White

Certain delistings i see
Robin Nahas ( Traded I believe- Days are numbered & Papers stamped)
Tom Derickx (not good enough)
Ben Darrou (Too Short for kpd and we have enough options) could be kept for 2nds team
Steven Verrier ( again been on the rookie list a few years and doesnt look upto it)
Sam Lonergan ( Good for Richmonds 2nds team But not best 30-35)
Orren Stephenson ( Again Richmonds 2nds team but Vickery will need to be confirmed as 2nd Ruck)

OK The question is Could it be possible that this year we will only delist the players i mentioned and move Newman,Tuck,Jackson onto the Veterans list which would effectively give us 4 Draft picks and 2 PSD pick or 1PSD/1Rookie Pick

This way we retain experienced & Loyal players that would be unlucky this year to be sacked,Give us great depth and still have the ability to draft the kids we require to continue the influx of talent

Gee i really hope i explained this well as im not a great wordsmith

Interesting topic Gun but disagree on Matty White - he's in career best form and is too valuable a weapon to lose. Tucky makes a great sub too (if his Hawthorn performance is anything to go on) but obviously won't have much left in the tank. White as a sub/impact player when we need a faster team to run and carry should mean he is safe.

 

[tigerz18]

i thought you could take players off the veteran list if someone more expensive comes on, (for some reason i thought saints did it with Kosi - but could be wrong).
If you can't remove a player from the Vets list, can you delist him then redraft him. would that remove him from the Vets list?

 

[THE_GUN]

My understanding of the revamped vetrans list is as follows
10 years service required & the 30 years of age criteria has been removed
you can have as many as you like but only 100k off their salary is dicounted from the cap
The more vets you have the less rookies you are allowed

Which means we could have Jackson,Foley,Tuck,Newman all on the vets list and Lids & McGoof next year

If my understanding of the new laws are correct,I would be all in favour of giving White & McGoof extensions for 2 years at $200k each which $100k would be out of the cap in year 2

This would allow us quality depth of Tuck,Newman,Foley,Lids,Jackson,White & McGuane in 2 years but Tuck will most likely retire by 2015 - Effectively we could fill up our rookie list allocations with Veterans

 

[Del65166]

Certain delistings i see
Robin Nahas ( Traded I believe- Days are numbered & Papers stamped)
Tom Derickx (not good enough)
Ben Darrou (Too Short for kpd and we have enough options) could be kept for 2nds team
Steven Verrier ( again been on the rookie list a few years and doesnt look upto it)
Sam Lonergan ( Good for Richmonds 2nds team But not best 30-35)
Orren Stephenson ( Again Richmonds 2nds team but Vickery will need to be confirmed as 2nd Ruck)

I haven't seen him play but Darrou is the only 1 I'd keep. With Batchelor in fluctuating form, Grimes injury prone, and ??? about Dea . Darrou might be an option as defender who can take talls and smalls..

 

[tigs2010]

Delist:
G. Simon
C. Williams also a possibility to be delisted (body not up to it?)

Doubt it. You don't bring an international rookie in who you know is a project and then just ditch them. Also, Williams showed a lot pre-injury for a last rookie pick. If Verrier got a 2nd year this kid certainly will.

 

[Mr Magic]

My understanding of the revamped vetrans list is as follows
10 years service required & the 30 years of age criteria has been removed
you can have as many as you like but only 100k off their salary is dicounted from the cap
The more vets you have the less rookies you are allowed

Which means we could have Jackson,Foley,Tuck,Newman all on the vets list and Lids & McGoof next year

If my understanding of the new laws are correct,I would be all in favour of giving White & McGoof extensions for 2 years at $200k each which $100k would be out of the cap in year 2

This would allow us quality depth of Tuck,Newman,Foley,Lids,Jackson,White & McGuane in 2 years but Tuck will most likely retire by 2015 - Effectively we could fill up our rookie list allocations with Veterans

Why would Mcguane and White be worth 200K as opposed to the 100-150K mark??

 

[theflea]

Doesn't the more players you have on the vet's list mean the less rookies you can take? Why wasn't Newman moved over as soon as he eligible?

not sure about what it was, but I think this changed as well. you can have 40 senior listed players and 4 rookies or 39/5 or 38/6 which is what we have.