Review List Management

[Bird Man]

Not sure I fully trust our recruitment anymore after the failure of the 2021 draft and skipping a player like Murphy Reid.

Still early days for 2024 draft, But im getting nervous with Taj (injury prone) Jonty (poor set shot and marking ability) Smilie can't even get on the pitch and has played zero footy for a long period of development time.

Lalor was an easy pick, and we would arguably be happy with Jagga or FOS, so I don't give our team much credit for that selection, but everything after that?

Not to mention the failure to find genuine role players in the mid-season drafts, as the bombers have done, and others.

What do you guys think about this list management team?

 

[Bird Man]

Thoughts on our list management THE_GUN ?

 

[Tigerish09]

What we saw today and in other matches this year reflects the quality of the list management team. They are and have been for a few years now appalling. The list of mistakes is extremely concerning, it's almost as though they have gone for the more speculative picks in order to compensate for prior poor drafting choices. Drafting injury-prone players is just daft and other clubs have now surpassed us even though we've had enough opportunities to land some decent players.

Ryan's long term contract is a howler, so is Hopper's and we're seeing the result of poor recruiting over the last few years with our mid-term players being the weakest in the AFL, players like Ralphsmith, Sonsie, Brown, Rioli, Ross and others, occasionally they produce a half decent game but they are limited players.

 

[DustinsGuns]

Our list make up is shocking.
2x speciality rucks in Nankervis and Cat B OHB
2x part time rucks in Sims and Ryan.

And then 9 specialist small forwards in Mansell, Campbell, Rioli, Green, Burton, Alger, Clarke, LRT and Peuker.

Mental list management.

 

[Bird Man]

People don't realise how important this 2024 draft was when we traded out all of our experience... With Tassie and how comprimised the most recent and future drafts they can't just gamble with picks 6,12,14, 21, 23

 

[richard parker]

Randomly sat down next to Matt Clarke in the grand stand at the Port Melbourne v Swans VFL match today

 

[RichoRichoRicho]

People don't realise how important this 2024 draft was when we traded out all of our experience... With Tassie and how comprimised the most recent and future drafts they can't just gamble with picks 6,12,14, 21, 23

Literally everyone who has ever seen a game of football understands, with absolute crystal clear translucent clarity, that the 2024 draft will define the short-term future of Richmond.

...and if Dermott Brereton and Doug Hawkins had a child who became special comments on Channel 7 25 years from now, they'd understand how important the 2024 draft for Richmond is/was and that we did it before Tassie joined the comp.

 

[Achilles Heel]

Maybe we need to do a Chelsea and have 5 director of football

 

[Wooden Robot]

Horrible list management.
We have some potential young gems and a few largely untested first and second year draftees and some soon to be departing premiership heroes from yesteryear, but that crucial 23-28 bracket is largely bare and devoid of anyone you would nominate as being a star, not to mention some in that bracket who should have already been moved on.
We'll still be excited about Lalor, Hotton, Faull, Grlj, Cumming etc. in three or four years, but there won't be much else of value around them, guaranteed.

 

[RichoRichoRicho]

Horrible list management.
We have some potential young gems and a few largely untested first and second year draftees and some soon to be departing premiership heroes from yesteryear, but that crucial 23-28 bracket is largely bare and devoid of anyone you would nominate as being a star, not to mention some in that bracket who should have already been moved on.
We'll still be excited about Lalor, Hotton, Faull, Grlj, Cumming etc. in three or four years, but there won't be much else of value around them, guaranteed.

You have indentified an interesting pattern.

lets say there were stars amongs the 23-28 bracket. If so we'd still be good + the older others blokes wouldn't have left.

Alternatively, say we didn't know they were stars until right after the clean out. Suddenly came them. That'd be something else. Any team that can continually pull that trick off would never lose. 5-straights

Also, if good teams never got shit again (or trade decent players) they'd never get good draft picks. All the good teams in the leage were shit got picks and then got good again. Some exceptions with academies or ridiculous father sons - or Geelong who (credit given) buck this trend better than anyone.

If we had a bunch of 23-28 yr stars in our side Lalor, Hotton, Grlj and Cumming - would all be playing for a different club. It's exactly how the system is meant to work

 

[mctiger33]

I’m holding on the 2024 crop will come through - confident on Lalor, Hotton, Trainor, Alger, Faull will be okay,…2021 draft is looking an abject disaster…still think there’s a team building with Grlj and Cumming but we need to shoot the lights out in drafts 2026-2028…plus add free agents and PSD where we can. The game is not built on slow plodders and we have a few

 

[Frustrated Tiger]

Randomly sat down next to Matt Clarke in the grand stand at the Port Melbourne v Swans VFL match today

And?

 

[Carnthefkntigs]

throw your mum's kitchen sink at anyone willing to play for us. if 11 years 22m couldn't get harley reid to sign we are in a lot of trouble

 

[RJK Tiger]

Finally, some of you are noticing what more than a few of us have been saying for years now.

Its getting to a point where its going to become critical. My big fear last year was we would go winless & we surprised everyone by winning 5. Going into the season i didn't expect to be back to wondering - are we going to go winless? Its a massive chance at his point.

 

[partycorolla]

People don't realise how important this 2024 draft was when we traded out all of our experience... With Tassie and how comprimised the most recent and future drafts they can't just gamble with picks 6,12,14, 21, 23

They didn't gamble picks. This isn't bloody big footy blokes talking to each and having a stab. They rate each player on their chosen metrics. Very easy to look back and look at who was and wasn't picked. Every club misses.

We don't know how ours are going yet as half of them haven't played more than 10 games. Smilie, Hotton, Cumming, Grlj - 11 games between them (2 yet to play). Sims, Harry and Lalor have all missed at least half a season. Jonty has missed chunks as well, with Alger also being injured. Trainor the most experienced and suddenly looks one of the most composed.

Our biggest issue is undoubtably the inability of our high performance team to have these young guys at our disposal for large parts of the season. Combine this with our older guys getting injured as well and it's a recipe for disaster... or if you look at it a different way... a recipe for a number 1 pick and an assistance package from the AFL (if we ask for it, which we probably won't). Your assets are only assets if they are playing.

 

[sante]

Hilarious

 

[RJK Tiger]

Riddle me this munters

Ben Hobbs was recruited in 2021. He played 65 games for the Dons, averaging 15 disposals, 3.5 Tackles & kicked 21 goals/26 behinds.

From the 5 we took in 2021

Gibcus 22 Games, averaging 8 disposals. 3 goals, 1 tackle pg,3 marks pg.

Brown - 44 games. 13 disposals pg. 4 Marks. 10 Goals.

Clarke - 17 games. 8 Disposals. 14goals

Banks - 46 games. 17 disposals. 1.7 Tackles. 3.5 Marks

Sonsie - 14 games. 14 disposals. 3 Marks. 1 Tackle. 10 Goals.


Essendon cut Hobbs last year. If Richmond recruited him, how many more years would he have left on his contract?



Effectively if we had taken Hobbs in that draft, he'd likely be considered the best of the 5 we have, alongside Banks on current form. Even tho Hobbs was cut last year, he has still played 20 more games than any other player we took.

How are we putting games into the youth if thats the case? I think we are holding onto players far to long. Its a problem we had done many times in our past & we are still doing it. We don't have the balls to make "tough calls" that show "we ****ed up".

List management is being made around job preservation and not much else. If we start cutting the ppl who need to be cut, then many of the people in the club will lose their jobs. Its a purple circle, again.

 

[tiger_tough]

We need a goal kicker. Any height, any position, just someone with a mature body and experience that can be a threat up forward.

 

[spky1234]

Riddle me this munters

Ben Hobbs was recruited in 2021. He played 65 games for the Dons, averaging 15 disposals, 3.5 Tackles & kicked 21 goals/26 behinds.

From the 5 we took in 2021

Gibcus 22 Games, averaging 8 disposals. 3 goals, 1 tackle pg,3 marks pg.

Brown - 44 games. 13 disposals pg. 4 Marks. 10 Goals.

Clarke - 17 games. 8 Disposals. 14goals

Banks - 46 games. 17 disposals. 1.7 Tackles. 3.5 Marks

Sonsie - 14 games. 14 disposals. 3 Marks. 1 Tackle. 10 Goals.


Essendon cut Hobbs last year. If Richmond recruited him, how many more years would he have left on his contract?



Effectively if we had taken Hobbs in that draft, he'd likely be considered the best of the 5 we have, alongside Banks on current form. Even tho Hobbs was cut last year, he has still played 20 more games than any other player we took.

How are we putting games into the youth if thats the case? I think we are holding onto players far to long. Its a problem we had done many times in our past & we are still doing it. We don't have the balls to make "tough calls" that show "we ****ed up".

List management is being made around job preservation and not much else. If we start cutting the ppl who need to be cut, then many of the people in the club will lose their jobs. Its a purple circle, again.

That 2021 draft was kind of shit. Albeit we failed massively, especially with their development.

Not many players that we failed to select really.

Gibcus over NAS who was a couple spots after has turned on a massive blunder. But he's had his career destroyed with injuries.

Probably only Kai Lohman in the next picks after Brown who would have been a nice pick.

Paul Curtis is the big miss after the others. Bergman, Roberts and Hough the only other notable names.

Killing us having none of these guys playing a significant role atm. We are in a major rebuild, only reason half of these guys are still on the list.

 

[spky1234]

They didn't gamble picks. This isn't bloody big footy blokes talking to each and having a stab. They rate each player on their chosen metrics. Very easy to look back and look at who was and wasn't picked. Every club misses.

We don't know how ours are going yet as half of them haven't played more than 10 games. Smilie, Hotton, Cumming, Grlj - 11 games between them (2 yet to play). Sims, Harry and Lalor have all missed at least half a season. Jonty has missed chunks as well, with Alger also being injured. Trainor the most experienced and suddenly looks one of the most composed.

Our biggest issue is undoubtably the inability of our high performance team to have these young guys at our disposal for large parts of the season. Combine this with our older guys getting injured as well and it's a recipe for disaster... or if you look at it a different way... a recipe for a number 1 pick and an assistance package from the AFL (if we ask for it, which we probably won't). Your assets are only assets if they are playing.

Yeah it's a crazy overreaction.

People are just seeing Reid playing a star team and acting like we've failed with everyone.

Other than him, and Shanahan who has looked amazing (still only 3 goals in 3 games) nobody else is having a profound impact on their team yet.

Clubs miss players all the time. Freo would've taken Berry and Bo Allan over Reid, but got lucky they were taken. We weren't the only club that missed these guys. Lalor looks a star. Taj looks great. Smillie we haven't seen. Faul is just being let down from his kicking. Trainor showing good sides. Armstrong been decent, but still very young.

Not all of them are going to make it.

 

[Bird Man]

Yeah it's a crazy overreaction.

People are just seeing Reid playing a star team and acting like we've failed with everyone.

Other than him, and Shanahan who has looked amazing (still only 3 goals in 3 games) nobody else is having a profound impact on their team yet.

Clubs miss players all the time. Freo would've taken Berry and Bo Allan over Reid, but got lucky they were taken. We weren't the only club that missed these guys. Lalor looks a star. Taj looks great. Smillie we haven't seen. Faul is just being let down from his kicking. Trainor showing good sides. Armstrong been decent, but still very young.

Not all of them are going to make it.

Not an overreaction if the same list manager who was in charge of the 2021 draft was at the helm of the most important draft for this club for the next 10 years.

I am not fully writing of the players in the 2024 draft but if the last few drafts and free agency moves are anything to go by im pretty nervous.

 

[Bird Man]

Riddle me this munters

Ben Hobbs was recruited in 2021. He played 65 games for the Dons, averaging 15 disposals, 3.5 Tackles & kicked 21 goals/26 behinds.

From the 5 we took in 2021

Gibcus 22 Games, averaging 8 disposals. 3 goals, 1 tackle pg,3 marks pg.

Brown - 44 games. 13 disposals pg. 4 Marks. 10 Goals.

Clarke - 17 games. 8 Disposals. 14goals

Banks - 46 games. 17 disposals. 1.7 Tackles. 3.5 Marks

Sonsie - 14 games. 14 disposals. 3 Marks. 1 Tackle. 10 Goals.


Essendon cut Hobbs last year. If Richmond recruited him, how many more years would he have left on his contract?



Effectively if we had taken Hobbs in that draft, he'd likely be considered the best of the 5 we have, alongside Banks on current form. Even tho Hobbs was cut last year, he has still played 20 more games than any other player we took.

How are we putting games into the youth if thats the case? I think we are holding onto players far to long. Its a problem we had done many times in our past & we are still doing it. We don't have the balls to make "tough calls" that show "we ****ed up".

List management is being made around job preservation and not much else. If we start cutting the ppl who need to be cut, then many of the people in the club will lose their jobs. Its a purple circle, again.

he would have been put in the leadership group because he would train well

 

[partycorolla]

Not an overreaction if the same list manager who was in charge of the 2021 draft was at the helm of the most important draft for this club for the next 10 years.

I am not fully writing of the players in the 2024 draft but if the last few drafts and free agency moves are anything to go by im pretty nervous.

Go back through the 2021 draft and see who we missed on, taking into account our supposed needs at the time and other players available. It's a pretty weak draft.

Nas went at 11. That was about it. Soligo? McDonald?

Honestly go through it. Even in hindsight, there isn't much there.

 

[THE_GUN]

Thoughts on our list management THE_GUN ?

Lots of young injured talent that will take 3-4 years
no major problems

 

[Delorean]

Melbournes list management would be a good comparison against ours.