Wanted - Players aged 25-28 - Apply within

[outback jack]

Thompson and Gibson for Steglein is a bloody good start.

we didnt screw over wcoast like we have been in the past, remember we still have to see how thompson and gibson go. Just cause gibson is big doesnt mean hes going to be the next JB he actually has to be able to play too. Thompson has he worries to at this stage of his career, at least wcoast knew what they were getting...

 

[outback jack]

True but its all well and good in hindsight

Chances are at the trade time most of those trades looked reasonable

I would leave Burgoyne out and pick up Kane Cornes instead who we considered with pick 7 but somehow he slipped to pick 20 for Port.

i dont think bode for pick 12 can ever look reasonable. The problem is that they have never learnt from past trades or drafts, the most noticeable thing on the draft list was the lack of first rounders we had, port makes sure they get at least one first rounder each year so they at least have a chance of picking some reasonable talent. When we do get a first rounder we expect a lot of them, hopefully now with this down period they've learnt that if you want to be successful keeping high draft picks is a good start.

 

[pext]

And you know this how?????? I seem to recall both Ayres and Craigy saying that Welshy is a very important player and we need his defensive pressure. I am pretty sure they even said that when he is on song defensively we usually come out as winner.

Yes, Yes, maybe, Yes, Yes, yes, yes, yes, no, yes, maybe. Whats you point????? Players you mentioned are KPP, something Welsh is NOT.

BULL********!!!!!!

People. I'm not being negative. I'm being honest. We have one of the worst forward lines in the league. End discussion. We all know this. What irks me is the delusion of fans and the hero worship of blokes who really don't deserve it.

Welshy is not KP. We all accept that. So don't talk about him kicking 100 goals and winning the Coleman. Don't talk about him being a gun. Call a spade a spade. Welshy is a good second tier forward. He's your Jeff Farmer. Your Peter Vardy. Your Michael O'Loughlin. Yes, he can be an important player but lets not get carried away. If Welshy kicks a lazy 30-40 and we can get 60 from Stevo out of the goalsquare I will be wrapped and we will make the eight.

This is what I expect from Welshy and I think it is reasonable. Claiming that he can do any more is simply stupid!

 

[Markthirtytwo]

we didnt screw over wcoast like we have been in the past, remember we still have to see how thompson and gibson go. Just cause gibson is big doesnt mean hes going to be the next JB he actually has to be able to play too. Thompson has he worries to at this stage of his career, at least wcoast knew what they were getting...

True to your last sentence but a lot of Melbourne fans have been on here frequently stating that their loss and our gain with Thompson.
Others also rate him highly, although they dont with you.

 

[Mad Dog]

No I have known it from the start but the gutless wonder is denying it

time to edit your sig there Stiffmeister.......

....delete "Powerkop".....insert "Backdoor Jack"

 

[Markthirtytwo]

i dont think bode for pick 12 can ever look reasonable. The problem is that they have never learnt from past trades or drafts, the most noticeable thing on the draft list was the lack of first rounders we had, port makes sure they get at least one first rounder each year so they at least have a chance of picking some reasonable talent. When we do get a first rounder we expect a lot of them, hopefully now with this down period they've learnt that if you want to be successful keeping high draft picks is a good start.

In hindsight yes and probably your right on all counts here.
Hope with Alan Stewart onboard this changes dramatically for the better.

 

[johnnypanther]

Our trading away of high draft picks for 2nd tier players is a joke:

1999 Picks 6 and 21 for Matt Clarke,
2000 Pick 12 for Matthew Bode,
Pick 23 for Evan Hewitt,
2002 Pick 2 and 18 for Wayne Carey.

So that's 6 top 25 picks we have wasted and thats not including the Angwin debacle.

i dont disagree with the general thrust of your argument about wasting our 1st & 2nd round draft picks mainly in trades, however, i do think that one needs to go back to trading/drafting since the end of 1996 (ie the start of the Blight era)

i also take issue with the above examples:

(i) 1999: we actually got Matt Clarke and Scott Welsh for picks 6 & 21 which IMO is more than ok (and even more so in hindsight with 1999 probably being the worst draft on record) As a matter of interest Cupido and ironically Scott Stevens were the no 6 & 21 draftees - of course thats not to say that we would have picked them anyway but it was a bad draft year - even the Power had Koulioritis & Ackland with their first 2 picks.

(ii) 2002 - already done to death but in efffect we traded picks 4,14 & 45 for Carey and Torney. IMO at the time the right deal - we needed Carey for a genuine CHANCE at the premiership. With hindsight, it didnt work out mainly because we got Carey but M Stevens and Welsh suffered injuries so we could rarely get the 3 pronged forward line we needed but nevertheless IMO the correct decision at the time. And there is no doubt whatsoever in my mind that neither Richmond nor Adelaide would have given up pick 4 at the time had they known it would eventually become pick 2 ( one of the crassest bits of unprofessional decision-making ever made by the AFL)

(iii) Angwin was the right choice at the time too - he had and still has i guess the opportunity to be one of the AFL's best ruckmen IMO - and i dont believe that everyone knew before the draft that he was going to be "dud" as a person

Apart from these disagreements i agree entirely with you regarding the wasting of picks by trading mainly since end of 1996

 

[johnnypanther]

however we wish we had a time machine to go with the hindsight - i often dream what it may have been - that Wells, Schammer, Shaun Burgoyne, Kane Cornes & Chad Cornes (father/son rule if Graham had another year or the current rules applied) could all be in our colours and what a difference that makes - we wouldnt have this thread going for starters

 

[Crow]

burton our only target, are you joking??? m stevens was there and he certainly wasnt isolated. You go on to say burton needs to grow a brain?? This why he will never be a 1st tier wingman due to his disposal and decision making, but he does have potential to be 1st tier forward, because we can remove his decision making. You forget that nothing is stopping him using athletic ability up forward in fact its an advantage.

Apologies on my wording - yes we did have other targets at that time, what I meant to say is you throw Burton up in the forward line and its like giving a blind man a gun and telling him to shoot at your enemy, he might hit some of the targets some of the time but he'll probably take out some of your men in the process.

Brett Burton inured more crows players last year than any other opposition player because he plays reckless football. You throw him up in the forward line and he kicks 50 goals but he stops the forwards around him from kicking an extra 20 goals each. Burton goes for the football and forgets the fact there are actually other players running around on the field.

I know I personally would rather have him driving it into the forward line and sloppily kicking it to a defender (well I'd rather have him kicking the football smoothly but it's Burton) than have him as our main target with 7 shots on goal a game and kicking 2.5 or worse...

Hudson’s had his intro yr, he aint been thrown to the wolves, its not like hes 19 or something, he needs as much game time as possible. Putting meson in would be throwing him to the wolves, Hudson is much more advanced and developed.

Just because he has an older man's footballing body doesn't mean he has the footballing nouse of an older AFL player. He's only about to start his second year remember and while he may have the ability to play Football with his body I would still be inclined to suggest his positioning, fitness and reading of the play will still take one more year to fully develop. The AFC may not agree with me but I think he needs it.

Scott welsh in the top 5 skillful players, how about mcleod, roo, edwards, goodwin, reilly, theres five that are clearly better than him. Welshy struggles when he has someone of similar pace, its time for him to take the next step, this yr is pretty important.

He would comfortably be better than Goodwin in his foot skills. Goody provides us great drive and penetration with his left but he only has around 75-80% accuracy with that foot, not disputing he isn't skillful but Welsh has better skills IMO. I'm more confident with Welsh lining up for goal than 95% of the other crows players.

cant say i agree with a lot of your logic, but apart from that welcome..

Cheers

 

[Crow]

we didnt screw over wcoast like we have been in the past, remember we still have to see how thompson and gibson go. Just cause gibson is big doesnt mean hes going to be the next JB he actually has to be able to play too. Thompson has he worries to at this stage of his career, at least wcoast knew what they were getting...

We were getting a hard as nails bloke who all have acknowledged has the potential to be a stellar midfielder. In return West Coast got a top quality defensive midfielder who, at his peak, will never be a gamebreaker. We also got a lad touted as a top 20 pick. Whether he brings the goods or not is another thing but you can only draft what you see on the surface, and what we see on the surface looks VERY talented.

People. I'm not being negative. I'm being honest. We have one of the worst forward lines in the league. End discussion. We all know this. What irks me is the delusion of fans and the hero worship of blokes who really don't deserve it.

Welshy is not KP. We all accept that. So don't talk about him kicking 100 goals and winning the Coleman. Don't talk about him being a gun. Call a spade a spade. Welshy is a good second tier forward. He's your Jeff Farmer. Your Peter Vardy. Your Michael O'Loughlin. Yes, he can be an important player but lets not get carried away. If Welshy kicks a lazy 30-40 and we can get 60 from Stevo out of the goalsquare I will be wrapped and we will make the eight.

This is what I expect from Welshy and I think it is reasonable. Claiming that he can do any more is simply stupid!

Were Welshy's 20 or so goals in 3 games just dumb luck then? Did you expect him to kick a further 10-20 goals in 19 games? Welsh is NOT second tier and to compare him with Farmer is completely ridiculous. The year seems to elude me at this stage but i recall a season where Welsh played 9 games before being injured for the season and kicking 26 goals. The only player in the entire AFL to kick a goal in every game he played in, and an average of around 2.9 goals a game. Do the math 2.9 multiplied by 22 - the average is a whole lot higher than a 'lazy' 30-40 goals.

He's a cut above a second tier forward and aside from his injuries there's everything to like about a forward line containing Scott Welsh. Oh and I'm pretty sure some swans fans would have a bit to say about Michael O' Loughlin being a second tier forward too...

Seriously when are you and Outback Jack going down to buy a Power membership then? I don't expect you to look at our club through rose coloured glasses but is there any positives to our club at all? If I go by what you two are predicting then we should be dead set spooners for the next ten years and averaging 100 point molestations every week from every club in the league.

You claim other fans being stupid but I think the stupid one in this thread is shining through like a beacon - he has an assistant too...

 

[pext]

Were Welshy's 20 or so goals in 3 games just dumb luck then?

No, he got on the end of some midfield dominance in a couple of hidings. This point only highlights my point. Where was Welshy for the other 16 games where he only kick 25 or so?

The year seems to elude me at this stage but i recall a season where Welsh played 9 games before being injured for the season and kicking 26 goals.

That's wonderful! Fact of the matter is that he didn't go on with it due to injury. Can we please come back to reality and stop imagining what might have been.

Seriously when are you and Outback Jack going down to buy a Power membership then? I don't expect you to look at our club through rose coloured glasses but is there any positives to our club at all? If I go by what you two are predicting then we should be dead set spooners for the next ten years and averaging 100 point molestations every week from every club in the league.

You claim other fans being stupid but I think the stupid one in this thread is shining through like a beacon - he has an assistant too...

Firstly, word up for the use of the term 'molestations'.

Secondly, yes you do expect us to look at the club through rose coloured glasses. And when we disagree with your views you shout us down and claim we know nothing.

Would you prefer me to say this? Let's all give a pat on the back to the forward line who can only rarely manage over 100 points. Instead of calling them rubbish let's blame our list of wonderful midfielders such as Roo, Macca, Goody, Burton, Edo, etc. for not delivering it to them porperly. Or maybe we should just blame the coach. He is a Victorian after all!

Finally, there are many positive things about the club. Roo and Macca. Goody and Harty. Hentschel, Reilly and Johncock. What is not a positive is the forward line that has not performed for five years.

I call it as I see it!

 

[Stiffy_18]

People. I'm not being negative. I'm being honest. We have one of the worst forward lines in the league. End discussion. We all know this. What irks me is the delusion of fans and the hero worship of blokes who really don't deserve it.

Welshy is not KP. We all accept that. So don't talk about him kicking 100 goals and winning the Coleman. Don't talk about him being a gun. Call a spade a spade. Welshy is a good second tier forward. He's your Jeff Farmer. Your Peter Vardy. Your Michael O'Loughlin. Yes, he can be an important player but lets not get carried away. If Welshy kicks a lazy 30-40 and we can get 60 from Stevo out of the goalsquare I will be wrapped and we will make the eight.

This is what I expect from Welshy and I think it is reasonable. Claiming that he can do any more is simply stupid!

NO ONE has said that Welshy is a KP and NO ONE in their right mind will say that he is 100 goal player. You seem to be the one wanting to expect this from him and because he hasn't reached those standards he doesn't make your first 18

Welshy is one of the best medium forward in the competition when on song and I certainly don't expect him to be a KP or a 100 goal forward. If he kicks 50 I would be happy. You are just about the only person that doesn't rate him. Many of the good judges rate him highly and yes he would make just about every team's best 18 as a medium/3rd forward. Its you who expect him to be a KPP who kick 100 goals

 

[Stiffy_18]

What is not a positive is the forward line that has not performed for five years.

I call it as I see it!

Yeah and because the forward line as a whole hasn't performed for 5 years lets bag only one player for it all, Scott Welsh

 

[jo172]

1999 Pre-Season Draft
6. Clay Sampson
12. Darryl Wintle

1999 National Draft
36. Rhett Biglands
51. Ricky O'Loughlin
65. Justin Cicolella
67. Robert Shirley
79. Balraj Singh
83. Matthew Shir

2000 Pre-Season Draft
4. James Byrne
12. Andrew Crowell

2000 National Draft
7. Laurance Angwin
38. Michael Handby
48. Matthew Smith
53. Hayden Skipworth
67. Graham Johncock

2001 Pre-Season Draft
5. Chris Ladhams
12. Adam Richardson

2001 National Draft
12. Brent Reilly
44. Ben Finnin
59. Jacob Schuback

2002 Pre-Season Draft
5. Trent Hentschel

2002 National Draft
32. Luke Jericho
56. Robert Shirley
68. James Begley

So overall our drafting in those years hasn't been too bad considering the picks we had.

Your joking right, the players in bold are the only ones who have come close to playing well, I agree our picks haven't been great but if your going to use them on players like Handby and Finnin you might as well not have them at all!

 

[Stiffy_18]

Your joking right, the players in bold are the only ones who have come close to playing well, I agree our picks haven't been great but if your going to use them on players like Handby and Finnin you might as well not have them at all!

Biglands, Jericho and Ladhams can't play??????

My point is those players were good pick up with the licks they were taken with. Whn you get into that territory you are scraping the bottom of the barrel. I challenge you to find a club that has a better drafting record with later picks than us in the period between 1999 and 2002.

 

[jo172]

Biglands, Jericho and Ladhams can't play??????

.

Alright Jericho needs time and Biglands and Ladhams have at times shown talent BUT lets face it, it's extremely slim the chance of these blokes ever challenging for a club championship wheras late picks of old such as Goodwin, Edwards and Stenglein all have.

Also if you divide the players by games played forevery club i have no idea where we'd rank but you get the feel reading that list that it wouldn't be too high. I mean Balraj Singh, what we're we thinking!

 

[NikkiNoo]

You claim other fans being stupid but I think the stupid one in this thread is shining through like a beacon - he has an assistant too...

*clap clap clap*

thanks for the giggle crow, you will fit in here very well

 

[NikkiNoo]

I mean Balraj Singh, what we're we thinking!

thinking of increasing our diversity? sorry been helping write a strategic plan

 

[jo172]

thinking of increasing our diversity? sorry been helping write a strategic plan

Wait, that also explains Sudjai Cook!

 

[NikkiNoo]

Wait, that also explains Sudjai Cook!

at least we have a first in the afl - the first Thai player to play a game of afl football, mind you i think perrie counts too as a zimbabwean.

be nice about sudjai I know his family pretty well (well his uncle builds good houses!)

 

[Crow]

*clap clap clap*

thanks for the giggle crow, you will fit in here very well

Cheers

 

[pext]

I regard Scott Welsh as one of the top 5 most skillful players at the Adelaide Crows and, given an injury free season, this bloke could kick anywhere from 60-100 goals which is remarkable for a man of his size. I think its ridiculous to say he needs to develop something else. I reckon anyone who can play a role as a KPP whilst being far shorter than 90% of KPP's going around the AFL, yet can STILL kick bags of 6 goals for 2 or 3 weeks running has to have something pretty special about him.

Scott Welsh has the ability to play both tall and small which is invaluable to any football club. Not only that but when Welsh and Stevens are playing in our forward line together then the ball retention inside forward 50 is as good as any other club in the league. The defensive presence this guy brings to a forward line is outstanding. Write his name down in pen every week for the team selection and mark my words, if he plays 16+ games for us this year then expect a ********load of goals.

You see, Stiffy, many people do think that he is a KPP. And many people do think he will kick 60-100. And these people aren't me.

I have reasonable expectations of Welshy. If he kicks 30-40 as our No. 3 in the forward line, I will be wrapped and he will be a solid contributor. I'm just not willing to put him anywhere near our top 5. Not even top 10.

Just as you can't believe how I don't rate Welshy, I can't understand how you all rate him so highly.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

You see, Stiffy, many people do think that he is a KPP. And many people do think he will kick 60-100. And these people aren't me.

I have reasonable expectations of Welshy. If he kicks 30-40 as our No. 3 in the forward line, I will be wrapped and he will be a solid contributor. I'm just not willing to put him anywhere near our top 5. Not even top 10.

Just as you can't believe how I don't rate Welshy, I can't understand how you all rate him so highly.

Personally, I'm taking the middle ground. Welshy should be aiming for 40-60 goals. Should be kicking more than 2 goals per game IMO. We cannot afford to be reliant on any forward - ie. need even contribution from forward line & midfield to kick winning scores.

 

[- PC -]

Bump

Now we have had the Wizzer and a few rounds , does anybody wish to revisit their choices?

Not a sledge just an interesting exercise

 

[CaptainDangerfield]

Bump

Now we have had the Wizzer and a few rounds , does anybody wish to revisit their choices?

Not a sledge just an interesting exercise

Alright PC, I'll have a crack.

The players I thought/hoped would most likey stand up in the 25-28 age bracket were as follows:

Hudson - I could have been onto something here. We've only played three rounds but beating the Port ruck trio is a pretty impressive start. His form in the first three rounds has elevated him to our number one ruck option. He may not dominate the ruck duals like Clarke but his around the ground work is very impressive. Fingers crossed.
Burton - Who knows with this guy. He could be a match winner ( if played up forward ) or the king of turnovers ( if kept on a wing ).
Welsh - Tettering on 1st tier IMO. Had a pretty quiet first two weeks but I expect him to find some consistency after an impressive display against Port.
Bode - I still have hope, but time is running out.

Thorney - Can I swap him for Bode. I have always liked this guy. He is hard at it and never gives in. I can't beleive I left him off my list.