War Protestor

[happy_in_hell]

There's a time and place for everything and i was absolutely disgusted at the Female ant-war protestor lack of respect.

For those of you not knowing what i am talking about: An anti-war protestor for the group Women For Peace stageda protest at the Melbourne Shrine of Remembrance today, Remembrance Day.

I believe Bruce Ruxton (ex-Pres of the RSL) did very well not to lash out at the woman (whom he called "A Hag") as i would have done had i ben there.

I know this is not a new event and there have always been protests but it still makes me sick that someone would choose this day (a day to not only remember those involved in WW!, but all wars, including the loss of lives at the Bali Bombings).

Anyone else's comments on this?
I leave you with a comment made by a digger: "We come not to glorify war, but to remember mates"

I wonder if any of her family was involved in any conflict and what they would think of her actions.

Disgusted and saddened.

My thoughts...

 

[knuckles]

Should have been dealt with the way the Chinese dealt with those couple of protestors at their Communist pow-wow on the weekend.

 

[hourn]

yep defenitaly in bad taste to make such a protest on a day such as today.

 

[AlfAndrews]

I think it is absolutely outrageous for someone not to show suitable solemnity on this very sad day.

The commemoration of the day Australia started to go backwards ... the day that drunken red-faced dog, John the Curr, sacked the greatest Prime Minister in Australia's mostly shameful history.

27 years of steadily accelerating regression back to the Australia of Menzies ...

Gee we've come a long way.

Makes you realise that the tens of thousands of Australians who've died in wars over the last hundred years died for absolutely NOTHING.

**LEST WE FORGET ... MAINTAIN THE RAGE**

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by AlfAndrews
I think it is absolutely outrageous for someone not to show suitable solemnity on this very sad day.

The commemoration of the day Australia started to go backwards ... the day that drunken red-faced dog, John the Curr, sacked the greatest Prime Minister in Australia's mostly shameful history.

27 years of steadily accelerating regression back to the Australia of Menzies ...

Gee we've come a long way.

Makes you realise that the tens of thousands of Australians who've died in wars over the last hundred years died for absolutely NOTHING.

**LEST WE FORGET ... MAINTAIN THE RAGE**

Gough Whitlam, Australias greatest PM, on yer bike sunshine.

HA HA HA

 

[evade28]

and its 122 years ago 2day that australias greatest bushranger NED KELLY was hung!

 

[The Ewok]

Originally posted by evade28
and its 122 years ago 2day that australias greatest bushranger NED KELLY was hung!

And so he should have, cop killing scumbag

Strange country we live in where a cold-blooded murderer is revered as some type of 'hero'

 

[knuckles]

If we go back to the days of Menzies, can we fast rewind past the Hawke/Keating years please?

We'll be back in an era of no computers (apologies to Eniac, Univac and Edsac), tram conductors, fatty public service, free education, dead Melb on the weekends....isn't that what the Lefties want

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by knuckles
If we go back to the days of Menzies, can we fast rewind past the Hawke/Keating years please?

We'll be back in an era of no computers (apologies to Eniac, Univac and Edsac), tram conductors, fatty public service, free education, dead Melb on the weekends....isn't that what the Lefties want

I reckon they want soup kitchens and plenty of em.

 

[wagstaff]

Originally posted by The Ewok

Strange country we live in where a cold-blooded murderer is revered as some type of 'hero'

You mean, like cops?

 

[Frodo]

Very poor taste on such an occasion and similarily Alf has taken the opportunity to make a political speech on a thread of 'remembrance' of those that gave their lives for us.
I don't see a lot of difference between the womens disrespect and Alf's

 

[Hollypig]

The woman was Reta Kaur & was invited to put on its show by two green candidates, Ms Evans & Curr, who helped it hand out copies of a womens statement of resistance.

I`m just glad my Grandfather who fought & was wounded in WW1 has passed on & does`nt have to witness what this country`s having to put up with.

Gees Bruce what an opportunity missed to go out in a blaze of glory.

 

[S.J Rollin]

Originally posted by The Ewok


And so he should have, cop killing scumbag

Strange country we live in where a cold-blooded murderer is revered as some type of 'hero'

F**K the Police...Viva Ned!

Cops pushed him and his family to the point of ultimate resistance.

Imagine what it would be like to have a drunken pig try it on with your sister while you were away only to then make up a story that saw you mother locked up for attempted murder?

and as for the cops at Stringybark Creek... that was a gunfight where the cops were first given opportunity to surrender. The cops were certainly on a mission to kill Ned and Dan with the firepower they had bought along as well as a pack horse with custom made straps for tying corpses to it. Thats a fair case for self defence.

only Sherritt was murdered in cold blood for being a rat.

 

[skilts]

The protestor is the hero of the piece. If more people had adopted her stance there wouldn't be any necessity to have that carbunkle on a perfectly good park which is the shrine.

What's the value in remembering people who were too stupid to realise that if they went off to war that there was a good chance they would be killed?

 

[Squeak]

Originally posted by skilts
The protestor is the hero of the piece. If more people had adopted her stance there wouldn't be any necessity to have that carbunkle on a perfectly good park which is the shrine.

What's the value in remembering people who were too stupid to realise that if they went off to war that there was a good chance they would be killed?

Heartless.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Squeak


Heartless.

Sorry to introduce reality into a debate where everyone seems to think that being awash with self-lacerating emotion is a good thing.

Two words sum up the value of the RSL and its fellow-travellers - Bruce Ruxton.

 

[Squeak]

Originally posted by skilts


Sorry to introduce reality into a debate where everyone seems to think that being awash with self-lacerating emotion is a good thing.

Two words sum up the value of the RSL and its fellow-travellers - Bruce Ruxton.

You're giving me the impression you think we should try to wipe these people and their efforts from our memory. You're entitled to that but I don't agree with you.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Squeak


You're giving me the impression you think we should try to wipe these people and their efforts from our memory. You're entitled to that but I don't agree with you.

Fair enough. Good that we can disagree without rancour.

 

[knuckles]

Originally posted by skilts
The protestor is the hero of the piece. If more people had adopted her stance there wouldn't be any necessity to have that carbunkle on a perfectly good park which is the shrine.

What's the value in remembering people who were too stupid to realise that if they went off to war that there was a good chance they would be killed?

Albeit you are too stupid to understand the science of forced national service.

 

[AlfAndrews]

There is real value in remembrance. Hence the expression "Lest We Forget".

We remember in order not to forget ... OK. Fair enough. Can't argue with that.

But WHAT are we trying not to forget?

... and this is where the jingoists have hijacked our two great days of remembrance, ANZAC Day and Armistice Day ...

Are we trying not to forget that our forebears bravely gave their lives for King, Country and Empire ... not for one moment indulging in the traitorous luxury of thinking about whether the cause was worth it or not?

If so, then God Save The King ... God Bless America ... and where can I sign up for the next stoush?

Or are we trying not to forget that tens of thousands of Australians died in the horrors of war, that war is a filthy obscenity that can never be justified, and that it is a very stupid thing to get yourself killed in someone else's fight?

If so, then the protester the other day was acting in the TRUE spirit of Remembrance Day.

To the R.S.L.'s credit, a lot of them are opposed to the coming war on Iraq. But it seems that, all too often, when we start flying the flags and blowing the trumpets on these very solemn occasions, it's the war pigs clamouring for further slaughter who seem to set the agenda. Our solemn remembrance gets hijacked for political purposes.

And, in the current climate, this rampant jingoism is worse that I've ever known it to be in my lifetime.

We are living in truly scary times.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by knuckles


Albeit you are too stupid to understand the science of forced national service.

And you are too ignorant to know that, by far, the vast majority of Australians killed in war have been volunteers. There was no conscription in World War 1 and the only conscripts used in World War 2 were those who directly defended Australia.

 

[Hollypig]

Originally posted by skilts


Fair enough. Good that we can disagree without rancour.

Skilts & Alf, I can see your point but, the timing of the protest was very poor indeed. The vast majority of people there were elderly people mourning lost family, fellow soldiers, & friends.
Surely a protest outside of parliment house would be more effective, at least she would have been listened to by the general population.
The people attending rememberance day are there to mourn & remember, they are innocent of any future warmongering. How upsetting for these poor people to have to have their service interrupted by this woman screaming & being egged on by two green candidates.
How would I go if I ran into a mosque screaming about muslim violence against men while they were greiving over the women & children killed in the sinking of the refugee boat 12 months ago.
I`d be howled down as a rabid racist, & rightfully arrested.
What`s the difference, I`m tolerant of views that I disagree with , we can all learn from other peoples thinking, but I found this act extremely offensive.

 

[Portia]

Well put, Holly.

 

[ah_19]

whether it was bad timing or not is up to debate

but

"Albeit you are too stupid to understand the science of forced national service."

tell it to this guy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israeli Refusenik Soldier's
Letter From Jail
By Yigal Bronner
11-8-2

Dear Friends,

I would like to share with you some of my thoughts as I pass the long hours peeling bags of onions, washing dozens of large oily pots, or when I am asked to explain myself to those around me, people who find it difficult to understand my motives. Why does a man of my age--married with two children--"need all this"? Why is it worth my while to refuse serving in the occupied territories?

Such questions have forced me to examine my actions from the perspective of the other prisoners. Here is a man, 36 years old, who is imprisoned with soldiers half his age. He is separated from his family, forbidden to take off his hat (even when sitting in his cell or while eating), to use a pillow or sheets, to wear a watch, to eat in the dining hall (rather, he eats on a folding table in the hallway near his cell, all the while behind bars) and to speak while working or eating. He is forced to work fourteen hours a day (in the kitchen or cleaning the bathrooms on the base), to stand at attention and yell "Attention!" every time an officer passes and to obey a long list of other commands and prohibitions, whose sole purpose is to humiliate him. Why would anybody in his right mind subject himself to this?

In order to answer the above question seriously, one has to recall the alternative, what it was I refused to do. There is indeed an effort to humiliate me through a variety of regulations. But I believe that humiliating another human being is more humiliating by far. To look, for example, into the eyes of a Palestinian at a checkpoint and prevent him/her from reaching work, school, or the hospital. To look into the eyes of the residents upon whom I have just imposed another day of curfew--a curfew that seems to have no beginning and no end. To look into the eyes of a farmer whose orchards I am ordered to uproot--or in the eyes of a family whose house I am about to demolish. And to see my reflection in the eyes of these people: a despised soldier in front of trembling people who beg for his mercy. This, to me, is much, much more humiliating.

There are, of course, those who claim that the presence of people like me in the occupied territories can make the occupation more humane. Indeed, it cannot be denied that one can uproot an orchard politely, demolish a house quietly and in a civilized manner, and perhaps even expel an entire population from their village--as has been done in South Hebron--in an organized and less violent way. It is possible, it seems, to calmly dispossess and oppress an entire people. The question, however, still arises: Can a person who wishes to retain his humanity carry out such actions?

For me, the answer is clear: No.

So when we, the refuseniks, declare that there are certain things that a just person simply does not do, we do not mean working in a kitchen, since such work is dignified. We mean actions that humiliate and deny the humanity of the Other. There is no doubt that it is better to sit in jail, isolated, wearing a hat, silent, washing dishes and peeling onions.

I prefer--by far--to shed tears when I cut bag after bag of onions over the tears that arise whenever I conjure up images of the occupation.

Sincerely,
Yigal



http://www.rense.com/general31/fromjail.htm
can be found at many more places

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by ah_19
whether it was bad timing or not is up to debate

but

"Albeit you are too stupid to understand the science of forced national service."

tell it to this guy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Israeli Refusenik Soldier's
Letter From Jail
By Yigal Bronner
11-8-2

Dear Friends,

I would like to share with you some of my thoughts as I pass the long hours peeling bags of onions, washing dozens of large oily pots, or when I am asked to explain myself to those around me, people who find it difficult to understand my motives. Why does a man of my age--married with two children--"need all this"? Why is it worth my while to refuse serving in the occupied territories?

Such questions have forced me to examine my actions from the perspective of the other prisoners. Here is a man, 36 years old, who is imprisoned with soldiers half his age. He is separated from his family, forbidden to take off his hat (even when sitting in his cell or while eating), to use a pillow or sheets, to wear a watch, to eat in the dining hall (rather, he eats on a folding table in the hallway near his cell, all the while behind bars) and to speak while working or eating. He is forced to work fourteen hours a day (in the kitchen or cleaning the bathrooms on the base), to stand at attention and yell "Attention!" every time an officer passes and to obey a long list of other commands and prohibitions, whose sole purpose is to humiliate him. Why would anybody in his right mind subject himself to this?

In order to answer the above question seriously, one has to recall the alternative, what it was I refused to do. There is indeed an effort to humiliate me through a variety of regulations. But I believe that humiliating another human being is more humiliating by far. To look, for example, into the eyes of a Palestinian at a checkpoint and prevent him/her from reaching work, school, or the hospital. To look into the eyes of the residents upon whom I have just imposed another day of curfew--a curfew that seems to have no beginning and no end. To look into the eyes of a farmer whose orchards I am ordered to uproot--or in the eyes of a family whose house I am about to demolish. And to see my reflection in the eyes of these people: a despised soldier in front of trembling people who beg for his mercy. This, to me, is much, much more humiliating.

There are, of course, those who claim that the presence of people like me in the occupied territories can make the occupation more humane. Indeed, it cannot be denied that one can uproot an orchard politely, demolish a house quietly and in a civilized manner, and perhaps even expel an entire population from their village--as has been done in South Hebron--in an organized and less violent way. It is possible, it seems, to calmly dispossess and oppress an entire people. The question, however, still arises: Can a person who wishes to retain his humanity carry out such actions?

For me, the answer is clear: No.

So when we, the refuseniks, declare that there are certain things that a just person simply does not do, we do not mean working in a kitchen, since such work is dignified. We mean actions that humiliate and deny the humanity of the Other. There is no doubt that it is better to sit in jail, isolated, wearing a hat, silent, washing dishes and peeling onions.

I prefer--by far--to shed tears when I cut bag after bag of onions over the tears that arise whenever I conjure up images of the occupation.

Sincerely,
Yigal



http://www.rense.com/general31/fromjail.htm
can be found at many more places

This man is also a TRUE hero. There aren't enough of them. How much easier would his life have been if he'd just folded like all the other unthinking sheep?

Having spent most of the past twenty years in and around St Kilda, I've made lots of Jewish friends, among them some rabid Zionists. I was visiting one such friend one night when a temporary visitor from Israel was staying at his place. I asked this bloke about the alternatives to military service to which he seemed so attached.

For about an hour he kept telling me THERE WAS NO ALTERNATIVE. I kept asking what happened to those who refused to participate. He kept saying these people didn't exist. He eventually acknowledged that, indeed, there were people who refused, but they were damned to being in gaol. To him, this was not an alternative. To me it was.