War Protestor

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by Jim Boy
What a rant!

Did I ever mention the second world war?, did I ever say anything in sympathy for the Nazis? Or are you just resulting to insult and slander because of your own inability to grasp the differences between the 2 world wars and the appropriate Australian response to each situation. And if it's coming down to trivialising and making light of nazi atrocities, then you are really not in a position to talk, Mobbenfuhrer.

Last bit first. I was led to believe 'Fuhrer' meant 'absolute leader'. The nickname was attributed me by an old mate Hapsburg descendant (yes, a Richter), in relevance to my conduct in pseudo-running a footy supporter group / grog squad. Therefore your reference to my BF handle is a little misdirected. No-one else has had a problem with it for two years here, nor has my wife, who is jewish.

Okay it seems I confused you completely by referring to the Kaiser. I meant to refer to the nazis which of course is not by any means the same thing and in fact basically different eras. Yep that's ignorance in my case, and I'm wrong to quote Alf's reference to the Kaiser across both wars. I got a bit too generic for my own good.

I also had someone else on this thread offering to come over and service my wife if I was ever away at war. I suppose that made me a bit touchy, yet I should not have become defensive against an unrelated poster as a result.

I was talking about WW2 when referring to atrocities, though I still hold the belief that the Germans in WW1 were wrong to attempt all this usurping through force and fear.

I was not calling you a sympathiser, I was asking you not ask me to sympathise with their cause. But what else was I to think when you started explaining what caused WW1, the things that gave Germany the gripes in the first place, when no-one had previously been commenting on 'what started it'.

I now ask, for clarification. Is it your belief, as you have made apparent above, that Australia should have participated in the Great War, but not in WW2? Or vice versa? I believe we served a purpose in both, in an 'any assistance greatly appreciated, we're sort of struggling here' kind of way.

I do not say it is wrong to argue against war, I do say it is wrong to do so by parading around at a place dedicated to remembering those who lost their lives, on a day when people were doing that very remembering.

Someone slagged off the RSL at an earlier stage, and I hear them. But there is one attitude of the RSL which puts it in some better perspective : They like to call themselves the only social club that does not want more members.

Finally, a plain question. Which date is the one we use to celebrate the anniversary of the ending of the war?

 

[jim boy]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


Last bit first. I was led to believe 'Fuhrer' meant 'absolute leader'. The nickname was attributed me by an old mate Hapsburg descendant (yes, a Richter), in relevance to my conduct in pseudo-running a footy supporter group / grog squad. Therefore your reference to my BF handle is a little misdirected. No-one else has had a problem with it for two years here, nor has my wife, who is jewish.

Fair enough, I wasn't having a go, merely pointing out that you need to tread carefully when talking about such issues. Flippancy can often be construed as something much worse.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer

Okay it seems I confused you completely by referring to the Kaiser. I meant to refer to the nazis which of course is not by any means the same thing and in fact basically different eras. Yep that's ignorance in my case, and I'm wrong to quote Alf's reference to the Kaiser across both wars. I got a bit too generic for my own good.

I had another look at Alf's quote, easy to see how it could be misinterpreted.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer

I also had someone else on this thread offering to come over and service my wife if I was ever away at war. I suppose that made me a bit touchy, yet I should not have become defensive against an unrelated poster as a result.

These boards can get a bit much at times.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer

I was talking about WW2 when referring to atrocities, though I still hold the belief that the Germans in WW1 were wrong to attempt all this usurping through force and fear.

I was not calling you a sympathiser, I was asking you not ask me to sympathise with their cause. But what else was I to think when you started explaining what caused WW1, the things that gave Germany the gripes in the first place, when no-one had previously been commenting on 'what started it'.

Misunderstandings happen, but I think it's important to understand the causes and origins of the First World War, more so than the second. This is because it's the First World War that gives rise to the legends of the Anzacs. And they really are miles apart in terms of why they started. For example in WW2, the Nazis were ofcourse evil, but in WW1 it was much more of a case of Germany being the enemy simply because of politics.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


I now ask, for clarification. Is it your belief, as you have made apparent above, that Australia should have participated in the Great War, but not in WW2? Or vice versa? I believe we served a purpose in both, in an 'any assistance greatly appreciated, we're sort of struggling here' kind of way.

It's very easy to say that we should have or shouldn't have with the benefit of hindsight, but at the time, things can seem very different. In the Great War, we really should have stayed at home. It was a 19th century war based on old alliances around a Europe that had for centuries been fighting skirmishes. Unfortunately it was fought with 20th century technology, and that's what it both great and tragic. But at the time, Australia was young and still very attached to Britain, at the time it would have been inconceivable not to join the fight, which it was thought would be something of the odd battle, charging horses etc and not being stuck in trench warfare facing certain death.

As for WW2, we rushed in to that a little too quickly. Certainly Hitler was an evil worth stopping, but people didn't realise quite how evil he was. Fighting didn't break out at the declaration of war, but again alliances dragged us ito the conflict. The Japanese we certainly had to stop, they seemed at the time to be a very real threat directly to Australia.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer



I do not say it is wrong to argue against war, I do say it is wrong to do so by parading around at a place dedicated to remembering those who lost their lives, on a day when people were doing that very remembering.

I feel that one price Australia agreed to pay to those who volunteered was that they would be remembered with a solemn remembrance. Topics such as modern day politics on the stupidity of war or issues such as women r*ped by soldiers may be valid, but that doesn't mean that you can go back on the promise that you made.

I know very little about what the female protestor was protesting about. She may have had a valid gripe, however she should find a more appropriate means of delivering her message.

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer


Someone slagged off the RSL at an earlier stage, and I hear them. But there is one attitude of the RSL which puts it in some better perspective : They like to call themselves the only social club that does not want more members.

Finally, a plain question. Which date is the one we use to celebrate the anniversary of the ending of the war?

First World War, 11th November, Armistice day and were not really meant to celebrate it, we're meant to remember and reflect.

 

[Mobbs]

Thanks for replying, Jim Boy. Agree with you now.

 

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by LibsWin


So what else is new, Alf? You have a Doctorate in footy history? LOL I weep for our education system! What a waste of taxpayers hard work.

Well ... it was a Liberal government that paid for it ... so blame THEM.

 

[Frodo]

Originally posted by AlfAndrews


Well ... it was a Liberal government that paid for it ... so blame THEM.

nope....it was the taxpayer that paid for it.......IDIOT

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by knuckles


Albeit you are too stupid to understand the science of forced national service.

How stupid would you have to be to consider 'forced' national service a science?

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Hollypig

How would I go if I ran into a mosque screaming about muslim violence against men while they were greiving over the women & children killed in the sinking of the refugee boat 12 months ago.
I`d be howled down as a rabid racist, & rightfully arrested.
What`s the difference, I`m tolerant of views that I disagree with , we can all learn from other peoples thinking, but I found this act extremely offensive.

It's good that you found it offensive. This was the object of the exercise. The reaction you describe to someone running into a mosque and shouting their version of obscenities, is exactly what you are now contributing to in this case. In your book, when IS the time to do these things? When it matters least to those involved? That will have a great effect.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Frodo


Ignorance is something you have with abundance Alf.
Of course from a simplistic viewpoint there was no conscription in world war 1 despite two referendums on the issue which were defeated, by a womens anti-war movement and the church. The referenda were vehemently fought. (1 087 557 in favour and 1 160 033 against) But the reality of the situation was that military training for Australian men aged 18 to 60 had been compulsory since 1911 and that the psychological aspect of such training ctreated a substantial enough volunteer force that the conscription issue was really of little importance for most of the war and by 1916 the deaths incurred had put the nation against it. There can, however, be no doubt that had a referendum been held at the beginning of the wat that conscription would have been a certainty.

As for the second world war you are wrong. CMF fought in Papua New Guinea.

read http://www.ww2roll.gov.au/doc/overview.asp

Let me get this right. You're wrong in saying that people had no choice about going to war, but the situation which pertained was akin to this state of affairs. Works for me. If things had worked out differently you would be right.

Do you ever listen to what you say? Or is that illegal in Western Australia?

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Frodo


For as long as mankind has existed there have been wars. Warring is a fundemental part of human genetics. We cannot run away from what we are. You war against others on these boards. Okay, it's not the taking of life here but that's another subject that encompasses everything from mass murderers to Zen Buddhists.

You owe your existence to your so called 'war pigs'

This is barely decipherable. Maybe you should have taken the opportunity which Alf took and educated youself. Maybe that way you wouldn't be so resentful of those who are smarter than you.

Your ideas about mankind are as simplistic as your other rants. Please look up the word 'determinism'. You are the victim of the most depressing quasi-philosophical idea ever devised. This hasn't stopped it from gaining currency.

It may shock you to know that people are able to alter the course of events. All is not pre-determined. If it were what would be the point of carrying on? Maybe that's what you're saying. In your case, you are probably right.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
[B.

as nasty as prospect was,B]

It behoves you ill to criticise any one else's use of the language. If you are capable of leaving out the word 'the' before 'prospect', you're hardly in a position to criticise me for leaving out one letter in 'war-mongering'. By my reckoning your omission is three times as bad.

Of course you would see this as petty nit-picking. You would be correct. This is the final resort of those whose thoughts won't stand up to their purveyor's own scrutiny. You won't say it was my idea though, will you?

When I started posting on these boards, I saw no reason to correct anybody else's spelling or punctuation. I still see no reason to do so. As long as what someone writes is decipherable, even barely so, as is the case with Frodo, I tend to think it's achieved its purpose in communicating an idea.

This is obviously not an idea you share.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer
.
Sorry skilts, but if you think I should spend future Anzac days degrading the few memories I have by dancing in the streets through glee for the death of those soldiers who got what they deserved, via either death in battle or more naturally in their declining years, then I cannot conjure out of my mind the notion that you are a very evil person, indeed.

MOBBENFUHRER, I despair. This person is unable to understand a negative reaction to another poster being called 'evil', because that other poster wrote something with which the FUHRER disagreed.

You will note that the only attacks I have made on your indifferent self have been on the basis of your shallow thinking. You want to classify me as 'evil' and expect to suffer no retribution. Sorry, that's not the way it works, especially around here.

BTW, just because someone in you past thought you reminded them of Adolf Hitler, in the way in which you conducted yourself, that's no reason to embrace this appellation with the apparent glee with which you have.

You may have noted that my remarks about what you did in relation to your girlfriend and in relation to your triumphant return home in a box were a bit of poetic license. The truth is, I dont actually expect you to go off to war. If you do, and you DO come home in a box, I wouldn't expect you to sit up in that box and start enjoying the company of your mates. It would be silly to say that, but that doesn't seem to stop you from thinking that's what I meant. FYI the comment about your girlfriend's phone number was meant to set out the realities of what happens when men go away to war. See, when men go away to war, their women are left at home. As a consequence, the bloke isn't around to check if they're getting it off with someone else.

If you wanted to be so literal, why did you take the comment as referring to your wife, rather than your girlfriend, as I specified. Is there something we're not telling her? Anyway, it's pleasing you were so disturbed about the comment that you've been to the courts and taken out an intervention order against me. You will also note that at no time have I called you 'evil'.
Still, plenty of time for that.

If I'd wanted to point out who the mindless buffoons were, whom I was trying to offend by saying Australians are sheep, you have provided me with a great example. For that, thank you.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Well said Mobbenfuhrer, skilts posts crap like this time after time.

This from FABULOUSPHIL, so-called because he is a fabulist, i.e. a person who invents or recounts fables. In other words, a professional liar.

Just the sound of his name would convince you to take notice of him.

No, don't do that. That's exactly what he wants. Sorry, shouldn't have posted this. As Suzi would say, he's on ignore. Never thought I'd quote her.

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


This from FABULOUSPHIL, so-called because he is a fabulist, i.e. a person who invents or recounts fables. In other words, a professional liar.

Just the sound of his name would convince you to take notice of him.

No, don't do that. That's exactly what he wants. Sorry, shouldn't have posted this. As Suzi would say, he's on ignore. Never thought I'd quote her.

My name is from a previous life, when i was a Collingwood supporter and named after Phil Carman...... and he probably was a good fabulist.

I wouldnt dream of putting you Skilts on ignore as your insane rantings give me something to read when im bored...... there always good for a laugh.

Do you really believe skilts ?........ in skilts

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Do you really believe skilts ?........ in skilts

Haven't any idea of what you're saying. Situation normal.

If you are asking if I really believe in Bobby Skilton, the answer is no. If you are asking do I believe in 'Skilts', the answer is no. To believe in something is to stultify it, to deny it growth or change. Contrarily, I tend to see myself as an unfinished project.

What difference do you think it would make if I DID believe?

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


If you are asking do I believe in 'Skilts', the answer is no. To believe in something is to stultify it, to deny it growth or change. Contrarily, I tend to see myself as an unfinished project.

Thats unfortunate because i believe that from belief comes growth and the ability to change.

Your last sentence though i believe.

 

[Hollypig]

Originally posted by skilts


The reaction you describe to someone running into a mosque and shouting their version of obscenities, is exactly what you are now contributing to in this case.

Please excuse my lack of a university education. but,

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


Thats unfortunate because i believe that from belief comes growth and the ability to change.

Your last sentence though i believe.

Just goes to show the limiting effects of beliefs. Your beliefs are of no interest to me. Tell me something about which you can speak with some authority. Tell me something you KNOW.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by Hollypig


Please excuse my lack of a university education. but,

Not your fault, my tortured syntax.

What I'm trying to say is that, although unwise, this would be a valid thing to say in a mosque, as was it a valid thing said at the shrine. Just because it's unwise to do something, doesn't mean it has no merit

 

[fabulousphil]

Originally posted by skilts


Just goes to show the limiting effects of beliefs. Your beliefs are of no interest to me. Tell me something about which you can speak with some authority. Tell me something you KNOW.

IMO you come across skilts as a interesting although sad figure on these boards, this i KNOW.

Are you aware the 60s finished sometime ago, you probably are, but i just need to know.

 

[skilts]

Originally posted by fabulousphil


IMO you come across skilts as a interesting although sad figure on these boards, this i KNOW.

Are you aware the 60s finished sometime ago, you probably are, but i just need to know.

You are hopeless, aren't you?

To say that someone COMES ACROSS as something is to say nothing. It especially says nothing about knowing. If the noughties is an era in which ageism suffices as a reply to a serious question, I'll stay in the sixties.

Mind you, your beliefs wouldn't have been out of place among the hippies who became attached to numerology, astrology, divining and tarot cards. They also thought it important to believe.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by skilts
As long as what someone writes is decipherable ... I tend to think it's achieved its purpose in communicating an idea.

Me too. Note the context of my reference, acknowledging the height of your passion for the subject.

 

[Mobbs]

Originally posted by skilts

MOBBENFUHRER, I despair. This person is unable to understand a negative reaction to another poster being called 'evil', because that other poster wrote something with which the FUHRER disagreed.

You will note that the only attacks I have made on your indifferent self have been on the basis of your shallow thinking. You want to classify me as 'evil' and expect to suffer no retribution. Sorry, that's not the way it works, especially around here.

BTW, just because someone in you past thought you reminded them of Adolf Hitler, in the way in which you conducted yourself, that's no reason to embrace this appellation with the apparent glee with which you have.

You may have noted that my remarks about what you did in relation to your girlfriend and in relation to your triumphant return home in a box were a bit of poetic license. The truth is, I dont actually expect you to go off to war. If you do, and you DO come home in a box, I wouldn't expect you to sit up in that box and start enjoying the company of your mates. It would be silly to say that, but that doesn't seem to stop you from thinking that's what I meant. FYI the comment about your girlfriend's phone number was meant to set out the realities of what happens when men go away to war. See, when men go away to war, their women are left at home. As a consequence, the bloke isn't around to check if they're getting it off with someone else.

If you wanted to be so literal, why did you take the comment as referring to your wife, rather than your girlfriend, as I specified. Is there something we're not telling her? Anyway, it's pleasing you were so disturbed about the comment that you've been to the courts and taken out an intervention order against me. You will also note that at no time have I called you 'evil'.
Still, plenty of time for that.

If I'd wanted to point out who the mindless buffoons were, whom I was trying to offend by saying Australians are sheep, you have provided me with a great example. For that, thank you.

You think its great that a heap of people died, think they deserved it because they wanted to go and fight against a murderous enemy. You show glee in the death of these people. Does nobody else consider that an ultimately evil thought process?

Hitler comment ignored, as it was already explained to Jim Boy and you can read that post to see that you've either missed or chosen to gloss over the factual account.

Poetic licence, eh? Then please keep your poetic licence away from me and my loved ones!

Ahhrgh there's more but you're obviously just baiting me, especially considering the convo has rolled on into areas unrelated to issue I had a problem with.

I just wish you would stop urinating on the graves of the dead (poetic licence).