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Warnock

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GIBZZY 09

GIBZZY 09

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Melbourne
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Carlton
anyone know how long till he comes back

Damn we need him so much cloke kruzer as permenant forwards and sauce/hampson and warnock as ruckman

so anyone no or nah?
 

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Guys I was not at the game, I had to listen on internet so I am asking from a genuine interest not looking for an argument. I know stats can be decieving, but we had 34 hitouts (Kruze 16, Sauce 13, Cloke 4) to their 25 (Hille 21, Ryder 4) so we won the ruck nearly 2:1, and centre clearances we won hands down 33 to 19 also more than 2:1. Ryder got 2 goals but Jacobs got one. So I dont see how our rucking let us down.

What am I missing?
 
30yearBLUE said:
Guys I was not at the game, I had to listen on internet so I am asking from a genuine interest not looking for an argument. I know stats can be decieving, but we had 34 hitouts (Kruze 16, Sauce 13, Cloke 4) to their 25 (Hille 21, Ryder 4) so we won the ruck nearly 2:1, and centre clearances we won hands down 33 to 19 also more than 2:1. Ryder got 2 goals but Jacobs got one. So I dont see how our rucking let us down.

What am I missing?
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They didn't let us down.

We we're beaten mainly when Cloke was thrown into the Ruck - after Kruezer was hurt.

I think their "ruckmen" (and I use the term lightly - because Paddy Ryder isn't a ruckman) were a lot more damaging up forward for them when resting.
 
C4[2]Yo`DooR said:
They didn't let us down.

We we're beaten mainly when Cloke was thrown into the Ruck - after Kruezer was hurt.

I think their "ruckmen" (and I use the term lightly - because Paddy Ryder isn't a ruckman) were a lot more damaging up forward for them when resting.
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Thanks, but I still have a problem with this explanation perhaps a little more info please, Ryder kicked 2 goals, hardly a major problem. Ok you could say it cost us the win but seriously to be that close a game made it so, we are a 10 goal better team than they are, we should have kicked 5 more than we did and restricted them to 5 less than they got. So Ryders contribution should not in itself have hurt us so much.

If Hille got on top when Cloke went into the ruck, why did we persist with him, why not just have Jacobs do a little more work?

Did Ryder and Hille figure in a lot of ball movement through the middle coming out of our forward line and hurt us going the other way, in which case it was more a case of them hurting us by our rucks not manning them up around the ground? I can see that Hille would out pace Sauce and Cloke so this to me sounds like where they hurt us. Is this right?

In which case it still comes down to them having too easy a path out of our forward 50 to me. Hold it in and they have less influence, let it out (easily) and they are able to get away from our guys and be there to hurt us going the other way.
 
30yearBLUE said:
Thanks, but I still have a problem with this explanation perhaps a little more info please, Ryder kicked 2 goals, hardly a major problem. Ok you could say it cost us the win but seriously to be that close a game made it so, we are a 10 goal better team than they are, we should have kicked 5 more than we did and restricted them to 5 less than they got. So Ryders contribution should not in itself have hurt us so much.

If Hille got on top when Cloke went into the ruck, why did we persist with him, why not just have Jacobs do a little more work?

Did Ryder and Hille figure in a lot of ball movement through the middle coming out of our forward line and hurt us going the other way, in which case it was more a case of them hurting us by our rucks not manning them up around the ground? I can see that Hille would out pace Sauce and Cloke so this to me sounds like where they hurt us. Is this right?

In which case it still comes down to them having too easy a path out of our forward 50 to me. Hold it in and they have less influence, let it out (easily) and they are able to get away from our guys and be there to hurt us going the other way.
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Our rucks clearly won the battle at the centre bounces, hence the domination in the centre clearances, but both Kreuzer & Jacobs lacked the strength to counter Hille at the ball-ups around the ground & the boundary throw-ins. One perfect example was in the second quarter, at a boundary throw-in, where Hille just held Kreuzer out with one arm while using the other hand to tap the ball over the pack for a teammate to run onto & kick an easy goal.

Hille gave his midfielders an armchair ride in those contests around the ground & unfortunately our midfielders didn't set up defensively to try & nullify this advantage.
 
thylacine60 said:
30Man, game is replayed on Channel 10's FTA Sports Network ONE. 12.30 tonight I think.
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Cool, then I get a second chance to placidly evaluate all the appalling decisions those yellow maggots made. off the top of my head


  1. Kreuzer's decapitation - if you draw blood from a Carlton player you get a free kick? :confused:
  2. Scott Lucas' 'mark'
  3. Lloyd's 'free' in the goalsquare - if you bump into a Carlton player whose eyes are on the ball you get a free kick? :confused: One umpire reverses the decision while the original pays 50? :eek:
  4. That 50m penalty
  5. Murphy holding the ball in the centre - if you tackle a Carlton ball winner who repeatedly tries to thread a handball through traffic without "prior opportunity" you get a free kick? :confused:
The second act after Lloyd kicked the goal was silly but by my reckoning that's 5 goals that resulted directly from abominable umpiring in their front half. And those smarmy Essendon twits who justify it by saying they had less frees.

Not that I'm bitter or anything...:rolleyes:
 
I think Ratten should have thrown Kruz down forward for a while to, as that would have ment Paddy Ryder would have had to go down back again. Although nothign would have helped the way the ball cam out of our forward line.

I think we need about 4 goals between our ruckman a match.
 
We will have a serious 'big man' selection difficulty when this bloke is up and ready to go. Assuming Jacobs is fit too, and Kreuzer, Hampson, Cloke and O'hAilpin, who will be getting a game?

You could argue that O'hAilpin and Cloke aren't so much affected, because neither are genuine ruckmen, but I'll include them anyway, as I doubt we'll see more than 3 on the park at any one time.

In the first 4 rounds, we played Kreuzer, Cloke and Jacobs.
In round 5 and 6 we played Kreuzer, Cloke and O'hAilpin.
We are about to play Hampson, Kreuzer and Cloke, in round 7.

This suggests that we wouldn't play more than 3 of these big men.

So, with everyone fit (as in having been brought back through the Bullants and are ready to play seniors again) , who gets a game?

To me, Kreuzer, Warnock, Hampson and Jacobs have more of a future at Carlton than O'hAilpin and Cloke who don't immediately appear to have improved enough. But Cloke and O'hAilpin probably add more versatility, up forward in Cloke's case, and down back in O'hAilpin.

So for me, the selectors are more liekly to go with two of Kreuzer, Jacobs, Warnock and Hampson, and one of O'hAilpin or Cloke.

But I think we could quite possibly see Kreuzer being put in a key forward position, meaning another two genuine ruckmen could be selected.

With eberyone fit, I'd like to see Kreuzer, Warnock and Jacobs, marginally ahead of Hampson or Cloke. Tough choice though.

The big men will need to work very hard to grab a spot and hold it when we get these guys fit. Will be massive competition for spots. :thumbsu:
 
Unfair to expect Warnock to be a miracle man. If he comes back mid-year he will most probably be unfit without any form whatsoever. He is a developing player not a ready made answer.
 

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blue gunslinger said:
Unfair to expect Warnock to be a miracle man. If he comes back mid-year he will most probably be unfit without any form whatsoever. He is a developing player not a ready made answer.
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Yeah I realise that. I don't really have a time frame regarding this, other than a hypothetical situation where all are fit enough to play senior football, and assuming RW has played a handful of reserves games and is pushing for senior selection.
 
GIBZZY 09 said:
anyone know how long till he comes back

Damn we need him so much cloke kruzer as permenant forwards and sauce/hampson and warnock as ruckman

so anyone no or nah?
Click to expand...
Why do people keep saying this?

Kreuzer is starting to dominate on ball. Linking up beautifully and adding size and run to our midfield..........why lock him up inside forward 50?

Its like seeing Judd kick a great goal and wishing he was down there all the time.....imagine what you would miss out on.

Please.....if anyone has a rational reason for this sentiment that has been echoed by a few here......let me know.

The other thing is we won't see Hampson, Cloke, Kreuzer and Warnock in the same team IMO.

Warnock and Kreuzer.......with one of Hampson and Cloke depending on which is showing better signs as a forward, and IF the opposition matchups allow.

If Austin performs at CHF, only two of those above will play.
 
Bluebear said:
Why do people keep saying this?

Kreuzer is starting to dominate on ball. Linking up beautifully and adding size and run to our midfield..........why lock him up inside forward 50?

Its like seeing Judd kick a great goal and wishing he was down there all the time.....imagine what you would miss out on.

Please.....if anyone has a rational reason for this sentiment that has been echoed by a few here......let me know.

The other thing is we won't see Hampson, Cloke, Kreuzer and Warnock in the same team IMO.

Warnock and Kreuzer.......with one of Hampson and Cloke depending on which is showing better signs as a forward, and IF the opposition matchups allow.

If Austin performs at CHF, only two of those above will play.
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Good Post :thumbsu:
 
Bluebear said:
Kreuzer is starting to dominate on ball. Linking up beautifully and adding size and run to our midfield..........why lock him up inside forward 50?
Click to expand...

You are right, my only worry (and I probably shouldn't be) is burning him out ala Josh Fraser. That'd be my only worry in playing him regularly as a number 1 ruck.

Now I think about it though, rotations are far higher than they were 10 years ago, and clubs are very careful about giving adequate rests to the youthful players, and no doubt have learned from Collingwood's mistake. I guess I'm just hoping that Warnock will be sooooo good at center bounces and around the ground that we have the luxury of giving Kreuze long stints in the forwardline. :thumbsu::)
 
FWIW I can't see Jacobs being a viable long term ruck option for us.
Assuming Warnock gets over his injury problems, and Kruezer develops in 2-3 years (even leaving Hampson out of the argument for the moment), will we still need Jacobs, he just looks a tad slow for my liking, and has poor disposal skills, however he is a decent tap ruckman.
 

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celtic_pride said:
FWIW I can't see Jacobs being a viable long term ruck option for us.
Assuming Warnock gets over his injury problems, and Kruezer develops in 2-3 years (even leaving Hampson out of the argument for the moment), will we still need Jacobs, he just looks a tad slow for my liking, and has poor disposal skills, however he is a decent tap ruckman.
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Yep cos if either of them is long term injured in an early round, the other could just ruck for entire games on their own for the rest of the season. No problem. Got any other gems of wisdom?
 
30yearBLUE said:
Yep cos if either of them is long term injured in an early round, the other could just ruck for entire games on their own for the rest of the season. No problem. Got any other gems of wisdom?
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Oh Geez, sorry for venturing an opinion ...

Did you also read the point where I mentioned 2-3 years down the track ???

I was just saying, out of all the ruckmen on our list, I have the most doubts on Jacobs (and I would think a lot of other fans would agree with me)

I'm not sure how many clubs carry 4 plus ruckmen on their lists these days, certainly not Essendon that's for sure.
 
celtic_pride said:
Oh Geez, sorry for venturing an opinion ...

Did you also read the point where I mentioned 2-3 years down the track ???

I was just saying, out of all the ruckmen on our list, I have the most doubts on Jacobs (and I would think a lot of other fans would agree with me)

I'm not sure how many clubs carry 4 plus ruckmen on their lists these days, certainly not Essendon that's for sure.
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Every club either has 4 on their list or wants to top up to 4. And FYI Essendon has Hille, Laycock, Bellchambers and Ryder.
 

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