Was the 1935 Grand Final fixed?

[connolly]

Don't know if they are still there but several bullet holes at Trades Hall were kept at least until the early 2000s.

Re Hardy, he was a very charming rogue of the worst kind. Work on the book was contributed by many people, who Frank rarely credited. The book was banned and an underground network printed and distributed the book. Copies were shared between families and in workplaces.

From memory the only question of ''fact" Wren contested was the books assertion John West had an affair.

I know Dyer had a soft spot for our mob from a couple of chats I was lucky enough to have with him as a boy and then as a teen.

The sectarianism Nash and his wife experienced was standard fare in those days. My folks were orange and the green.

I think the defamation trial was over the claim that John West's wife had an affair. Jenny Hcking's biography ofHardy revealed that a lot of the book's depiction of Wren came from Angela Wren's youngest daugther.

 

[SilentHunter_]

To the OP yes it was and so was 2016.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I think the defamation trial was over the claim that John West's wife had an affair. Jenny Hcking's biography ofHardy revealed that a lot of the book's depiction of Wren came from Angela Wren's youngest daugther.

It wasn’t defamation but criminal libel. To get a defo claim up you had to prove malice. A Catholic proving malice was almost impossible. I’ve got this book of Santamaria’s letters which has a letter that explains it all.

I don’t know the extent of Wren’s crookedness. Certainly he ran an illegal tote but there’s not a heap of evidence of much else.

He was a Catholic in a society that hated Catholics. The Communists hated the Catholics and the Protestants hated the Catholics. The newspapers especially hated Catholics and lapped up the Hardy story. But then he was at odds with the Catholic Movement because he felt they were contributing to Labor disunity. Ironically he wound up supporting Menzies.

 

[sataris]

He was a Catholic in a society that hated Catholics. The Communists hated the Catholics and the Protestants hated the Catholics. The newspapers especially hated Catholics and lapped up the Hardy story. But then he was at odds with the Catholic Movement because he felt they were contributing to Labor disunity. Ironically he wound up supporting Menzies.

This made me end up researching a bit more about the anti-catholic vibe/sentiment of early Australia.

Learning all the time.

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

This made me end up researching a bit more about the anti-catholic vibe/sentiment of early Australia.

Learning all the time.

Aye. It is interesting. Seems there is always an us v them based on differences in skin colour, race, irrational religious rivalries.

 

[connolly]

It wasn’t defamation but criminal libel. To get a defo claim up you had to prove malice. A Catholic proving malice was almost impossible. I’ve got this book of Santamaria’s letters which has a letter that explains it all.

I don’t know the extent of Wren’s crookedness. Certainly he ran an illegal tote but there’s not a heap of evidence of much else.

He was a Catholic in a society that hated Catholics. The Communists hated the Catholics and the Protestants hated the Catholics. The newspapers especially hated Catholics and lapped up the Hardy story. But then he was at odds with the Catholic Movement because he felt they were contributing to Labor disunity. Ironically he wound up supporting Menzies.

Thanks mate it is an important correction. It was the last criminal libel trial in the history of Australian law. In regard to the issue the question i think is - did Wren fix sport? I agree its not good enough to rely on Hardy and a fictionalised account that was politicaly motivated against Wren. However,i think the following can be reasonably sustained without relying on anything in the Hardy book:
1. Wren did fix (the definition of that later perhaps) racing. The finding of the Queensland Government inquiry in 1930 is damning against Wren.
2. Wren exercised a unique and strategic control over sporting gambling. He owned the racing tracks for racing, including bike racing. In regard to trotting in Victoria he up to 1947 owned the Victorian harness racing authority. He employed the harness racing stewards. In boxing he owned Festival Hal, appointed the referreesl and controlled the venues on the east coast of Australia. In regard to Collingwood in the 1920's and 30's he virtually owned the club.
4. He controlled illegal gambling in Victoria without a doubt. His illegal gambling took considerable sums on football matches. The loss of a red hot favourite in 1935 would have been financially lucrative. South had convincingly beaten Collingwood in the Preliminary final. In the three games South had played Collingwood that year the Pratt/Nash forward combination had kicked 9, 7 and 9 goals. Pratt and Nash playing in the forward line was virtually unbeatable in 1935. Pratt seemed to always play dominant games against Collingwood. Probably the equivalent of Buddy and Wayne Carey playing on the same forward line. They must have seemed unstoppable. Now do we believe Bob Pratt that he was hit by a truck? Pratt had a reputation of stretching the truth. He was apparently very upset in the rooms after the 1934 defeat to Richmond and offered certain players outside the rooms to settle it. He believed that they "laid down for a bookie". Well he didnt play in 1935.His replacement Roy Moore was 20 years of age and had played only 19 games to that point. Collingwood double teamed Nash, played their best defender Regan on him in Pratt's absence and Nash only kicked one goal and Collingwood won with a score of 11 goals. At three quarter time without Pratt we had kicked 6 goals and Collingwood 8.In a desperate final quarter we kicked 1 goal 6 behinds. Did Pratt not playing make the difference. Undoubtedly.
5. The appointment of Scott to umpire was also extraordinary. This was his seventh Grand Fina on the trotl. He had not umpired previous one game in the finas series that year. He was regarded as a one eyed Collingwood umpire.It was his last game of VFL.
They say history repeats tself as farce. In Collingwoods case thats certainly true. Not so long ago the clown Maguire who i believe in his fantasy sees himself as a Wren character, speaking of the criminal Mick Gatto said that Gatto was the Collingwood players "liason officer". Just a joke of course.

 

[connolly]

It wasn’t defamation but criminal libel. To get a defo claim up you had to prove malice. A Catholic proving malice was almost impossible. I’ve got this book of Santamaria’s letters which has a letter that explains it all.

I don’t know the extent of Wren’s crookedness. Certainly he ran an illegal tote but there’s not a heap of evidence of much else.

He was a Catholic in a society that hated Catholics. The Communists hated the Catholics and the Protestants hated the Catholics. The newspapers especially hated Catholics and lapped up the Hardy story. But then he was at odds with the Catholic Movement because he felt they were contributing to Labor disunity. Ironically he wound up supporting Menzies.

Yes its interesting that Wren was attacked in the Victorian Parliament under privelege by Stan Keon a grouper in 1948. I am trying to get the hansard. Menzies appeared for him in court, Wren supported him politically and Doc Evatt went to the football with him. He also owned the Tattersalls Club the scene of the settling up with every bookie in Victoria on course and off course every Tuesday was it? John Wren politically worked both sides of the street.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Yes its interesting that Wren was attacked in the Victorian Parliament under privelege by Stan Keon a grouper in 1948. I am trying to get the hansard. Menzies appeared for him in court, Wren supported him politically and Doc Evatt went to the football with him. He also owned the Tattersalls Club the scene of the settling up with every bookie in Victoria on course and off course every Tuesday was it? John Wren politically worked both sides of the street.

I think it was probably more that he worked one side then the other. Started out as a working class Labor boy, finished up as a rich Liberal. I think his political switch though had a bit more to do with his frustration with the ALP. I gather he worked pretty hard to keep Labor united and felt that both sides to the Split were determined to see it fracture. That is certainly true of Evatt.

Someone mentioned about the bullet holes in the stairwell at Trades Hall. They were still there a few years ago. You walk up those stairs and there is so much history right there. I also visited the Pratts for some function at Raheen in 2005. It was a work thing and I was subbed in for the CEO. They took us up to Mannix's bedroom. It had been untouched since he died complete with the seat Santamaria sat in when he visited.

 

[Opts]

Amazing post Connolly and excellent research. I never knew they that the driver of the truck was Wrens employee. Very suspicious indeed.

 

[Opts]

scott jeffreys granddad was probably the umpire

I have a feeling that 30-40 years down the track someone will come forward and admit that 2016 was a fix, probably under the direction of Fitzpatrick and Gill.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

I have a feeling that 30-40 years down the track someone will come forward and admit that 2016 was a fix, probably under the direction of Fitzpatrick and Gill.

Mike Fitzpatrick did board with the Morans when he first moved to Melbourne from Perth.

 

[Opts]

Thanks for the tip. The umpire of the 35 Grand Final was Bob Scott. As a kid he apparently never wanted to be a footballer but always an umpire. Scott was the qunitassential umpire. In a country match in the 1920's he stopped the game and directed a mounted policeman to arrest a supporter in the crowd who had been barracking him. The trooper duely obliged , gave chase but the supporter evaded arrest. He was jockey sized, with a small man syndrome ego and had an interesting connection to Collingwood. The first game he umpired in the VFL involved Collingwood. He umpired an unprecedented seven consecutive VFL Grand Finals, all during the period of Collingwood dominance. His last Grand Final was in 1935. Was he biased towards Collingwood? Well some people thought so. In 1934 he umpired a match between Carlton and Collingwood. A 20 player brawl erupted and resulted in three reports, a league investigation, with the two boundaries and one goal umpire being suspended. Perhaps the only time in history when the umps were suspended and not the players. But not our Bob Scott. So biased was Scotts performance that an angry demonstration of 350 Carlton supporters surrounded Harrison House as he arrived for the tribunal hearing. So yes there was a Scott involved.

Crikey! How do you know all this? Are you a historian or something?

 

[connolly]

Mike Fitzpatrick did board with the Morans when he first moved to Melbourne from Perth.

Yes the Morans uncle boarded a number of their recruits. The Carlton premiership flag draped Jason Morans coffin. Nice club

 

[Opts]

Mike Fitzpatrick did board with the Morans when he first moved to Melbourne from Perth.

Wasn't aware of that. Would a person with an ounce of integrity have anything to do with those crooks? No they wouldn't. That sums up Patrick Fitzmichael doesn't it.

 

[scaryness]

Also not sure if you have visited here or not yet but there is a sub-forum on BigFooty dedicated entirely to discussing history topics like this.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/footy-history.428/

Might be worth posting there as well if you want

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Thanks for your posts connolly very good insight and I love reading them. You're a great poster to have on our board.

I too really appreciate the Posts. They invariably stimulate memories, most of which are happy ones

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

Wasn't aware of that. Would a person with an ounce of integrity have anything to do with those crooks? No they wouldn't. That sums up Patrick Fitzmichael doesn't it.

To be fair, it’s more a reflection on Carlton than Fitzpatrick.

Little commented on fact: The vast majority of Carlton’s premierships have been won with a criminal as President.

 

[Mick Oxlong]

To be fair, it’s more a reflection on Carlton than Fitzpatrick.

Little commented on fact: The vast majority of Carlton’s premierships have been won with a criminal as President.

What’s criminal is your username Waldorf!

 

[connolly]

Crikey! How do you know all this? Are you a historian or something?

Just an amateur on the pension. So fortunate to be brought up by a family from Port Melbourne that followed South.

 

[connolly]

I too really appreciate the Posts. They invariably stimulate memories, most of which are happy ones

For me also mate

 

[connolly]

Thanks for your posts connolly very good insight and I love reading them. You're a great poster to have on our board.

Thanks for taking the trouble to read them. Blow the whistle if its beoming boring

 

[connolly]

Thanks for your posts connolly very good insight and I love reading them. You're a great poster to have on our board.

Thanks mate. I really appreciate this Board. All of it. I think we have the best (and funniest) supporters in the comp

 

[connolly]

Wasn't aware of that. Would a person with an ounce of integrity have anything to do with those crooks? No they wouldn't. That sums up Patrick Fitzmichael doesn't it.

He later went on to join and head up a a serious organized criminal organization. Rio Tinto

 

[connolly]

Also not sure if you have visited here or not yet but there is a sub-forum on BigFooty dedicated entirely to discussing history topics like this.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/forums/footy-history.428/

Might be worth posting there as well if you want

Mate i havent. Thanks so much for the tip. Going on there now

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Connolly, can you remember the name of our legendary trainer from 50s? Think he was called Snowy Mitchell. He did not have a formal qualification but was an out and out genius.

He saw people privately at his home. There was no discussion of fees .the dosh was left on the mantle piece.

My dad took me to once so I observed.

It seems that politicians, coppers, judges and wealthy folk would pay similar visits. Eventually the Vic Parliament passed an a
Act recognising his skills and permitting him to charge fees.