WCE Player Refusing Vaccination

[The 747]

Anyone who claims they understand covid disease and jabs to a high level of detail. A lot around bigfooty

Oh I see. And who has claimed that?

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Anyone who claims they understand covid disease and jabs to a high level of detail. A lot around bigfooty

There’s apparently a fine line between holding yourself out as an expert, and insisting that the vaccines don’t work in the way they’re supposed to while not professing to have any expertise.

 

[TheLastCall]

You should compare the rate at which non obese and not sickly people in the age range die of covid.

It is almost 0.

Total population fatality rate for that age is mostly obese people.

Unfortunately that is not true. Some you people with no underlying issues have died or COVID. And many have ended up in icu. An icu stay will make a player miss a large part of next season.
In healthy people the immune system sometimes goes into overdrive to fight COVID which causes a lot of damage.

newsGP - Study reveals why otherwise healthy COVID patients end up in ICU

The ‘staggering’ link between coronavirus severity and an immune system flaw may also show why men tend to have more serious disease.

www1.racgp.org.au

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Oh really? So why do people still get sick after having it?

Sheesh. Since some people think this is just a glorified flu, let's use that language:

Can You Still Get the Flu If You Get a Flu Shot? - Medical Associates of Northwest Arkansas

Flu vaccine offers protection against flu virus — and it's the most effective way to prevent the flu — but you can still get sick even after vaccination.

www.mana.md

Why do some people get the flu after receiving a flu shot?

It is possible to get the flu even if you receive a dose of flu vaccine. Flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness between 40% and 60%.

Sometimes people are already exposed to flu virus before getting a flu shot.
It may take a couple of weeks for a dose of flu vaccine to protect against the virus.

Get your flu shot as soon as it is available.

Some children require two doses of flu vaccine for protection against flu virus.
While it’s possible to get sick with the flu even after getting a flu shot, you can not get a flu infection from a flu vaccine. Some people may feel ill or have a reaction after a dose of flu vaccine, but this reaction is not a case of the flu.

If you can still get the flu after receiving a flu shot, why get a flu shot?

Vaccinating against the flu provides several benefits:

It decreases the risk that you will get sick from the flu. Getting a flu vaccination is the most effective way to prevent the flu.
Getting flu vaccine reduces the severity of flu symptoms if you do get sick.

Flu vaccination reduces the risk of hospitalization and death from the flu.
It helps prevent the spread of flu virus, keeping your family and community safe from the flu.

 

[kaiserchief13]

Oh I see. And who has claimed that?

Want me to pull up your post history?

 

[kaiserchief13]

There’s apparently a fine line between holding yourself out as an expert, and insisting that the vaccines don’t work in the way they’re supposed to while not professing to have any expertise.

I never wrote that I understand. I merely questioned it but never get any response other than the typical 'you are wrong' response

 

[The 747]

Want me to pull up your post history?

Someone doesn't like being questioned on their posts I see. Go ahead.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

I never wrote that I understand. I merely questioned it but never get any response other than the typical 'you are wrong' response

You’ve had much more detailed responses than that.

But I guess those people are falsely holding themselves out as experts.

 

[Alesana]

View attachment 1278678
And there’s the career slipping through the fingers

And it will go down as a better career than any Carlton player of the last generation

 

[kaiserchief13]

Sheesh. Since some people think this is just a glorified flu, let's use that language:

Can You Still Get the Flu If You Get a Flu Shot? - Medical Associates of Northwest Arkansas

Flu vaccine offers protection against flu virus — and it's the most effective way to prevent the flu — but you can still get sick even after vaccination.

www.mana.md

Ok that's the flu shot. There are other shots out there that are 100% in protection- hepatitis and yellow fever to name 2. I'm no scientist so maybe it's not possible to create a jab like those for covid but it's worthwhile to question that....

 

[kaiserchief13]

You’ve had much more detailed responses than that.

But I guess those people are falsely holding themselves out as experts.

Yeah posters claiming that's not how vaccines work yet that's exactly how some vaccines work....

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Yeah posters claiming that's not how vaccines work yet that's exactly how some vaccines work....

As I pointed out earlier, that was never the aim here. Early efficacy numbers were in the 80s and 90s and people were stunned. 100 per cent efficacy was never on the table.

I’m no scientician but I assume that’s because it’s a new and mutating virus so 100 per cent coverage is impossible. Contrast that with polio and TB which have been around for centuries.

 

[faible]

I'm no scientist so maybe it's not possible to create a jab like those for covid but it's worthwhile to question that....

Most of us aren't. So when those who are, haven't (yet) made a 100% effective vaccine, it's probably worth trusting that (a) they've done the best they can with the current knowledge they have, and (b) if they can develop an improved one, they will.

None of which means the current vaccines aren't vaccines.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Ok that's the flu shot. There are other shots out there that are 100% in protection- hepatitis and yellow fever to name 2. I'm no scientist so maybe it's not possible to create a jab like those for covid but it's worthwhile to question that....

I'm not sure there has ever been a 100% effective vaccine for any type of coronavirus. It's in a different family to other diseases and illness that do offer that protection. It's not an all or nothing situation. If it was 100% effective for 80% of people and not effective at all for 20% of people, would you say it was effective or not effective? If it was 80% effective for all people, meaning they had a 20% chance of getting a serious dose, would it be considered effective or not effective?

It's just a matter of degrees and other individual factors. It can't be considered ineffective if it makes the odds stronger in your favour.

 

[ioppolo]

I long for those olden days when this section focused more on David Glascott's monkey and QC's rather than Covid.

I long for the days when covid wasn't the centre of everything

 

[kaiserchief13]

I'm not sure there has ever been a 100% effective vaccine for any type of coronavirus. It's in a different family to other diseases and illness that do offer that protection. It's not an all or nothing situation. If it was 100% effective for 80% of people and not effective at all for 20% of people, would you say it was effective or not effective? If it was 80% effective for all people, meaning they had a 20% chance of getting a serious dose, would it be considered effective or not effective?

It's just a matter of degrees and other individual factors. It can't be considered ineffective if it makes the odds stronger in your favour.

Whilst true re coronavirus' there has never been this amount of money being spent on a vaccine either so you would think more money = more effective vaccine.

Also can you blame people for wanting to wait for a more effective vaccine?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Whilst true re coronavirus' there has never been this amount of money being spent on a vaccine either so you would think more money = more effective vaccine.

Also can you blame people for wanting to wait for a more effective vaccine?

More money = quicker results in this case. Those quicker results then made people more sceptical. They can't win.

By waiting for a more effective vaccine, do you mean, with zero negative effects to anybody? Has such a thing ever existed?

 

[faible]

so you would think more money = more effective vaccine.

Not really.

Also can you blame people for wanting to wait for a more effective vaccine?

Yes.

 

[ant22]

'Educate'... you have 0.00% chance of being adversely affected by covid as a fit 20 something y/o player.
But there is a chance your heart might get fuxked up, and your athletic career ruined by taking a vaccine that doesn't really protect you from the virus anyway?

So when my very good friend who is a nurse who works in the icu Covid ward at the Alfred tells me the ward is full of fit and healthy people in their 20s and 30s who have refused to get vaxed Are you telling me she made this up?

sorry I forgot you have been educated by google. Never mind, of course your right!!

 

[ant22]

Is that a question, or a statement?
As of 4th Nov, overall case fatality rate
20-29 0.01%
30-39 0.02%
40-49 0.04%
Any AFL player should be fine. Why mandated vaccines are occurring for the fit/healthy u50s is beyond me.

Go spend a week working in our overrun hospitals and see what the docs and nurses are putting up with and you will have your answer.

 

[Tim Evans Beard]

I'm not sure there has ever been a 100% effective vaccine for any type of coronavirus. It's in a different family to other diseases and illness that do offer that protection. It's not an all or nothing situation. If it was 100% effective for 80% of people and not effective at all for 20% of people, would you say it was effective or not effective? If it was 80% effective for all people, meaning they had a 20% chance of getting a serious dose, would it be considered effective or not effective?

It's just a matter of degrees and other individual factors. It can't be considered ineffective if it makes the odds stronger in your favour.

The common cold is in the corona virus family, has been around for ages and has not vaccine. MERS and SARS are also corona virus family from the more recent past.

Phenomenal science to get where they are with COVID19 and Novavax should help those with any sort of science-based reluctance. Really incredible stuff.

 

[kaiserchief13]

More money = quicker results in this case. Those quicker results then made people more sceptical. They can't win.

By waiting for a more effective vaccine, do you mean, with zero negative effects to anybody? Has such a thing ever existed?

You can't speed up time though no matter how much money is involved, so long term effects are not known.

By more effective I mean having a 100% or 99% effective rate and very little side effects, certainly no blood clot or heart issues.

 

[faible]

You can't speed up time though no matter how much money is involved, so long term effects are not known.

By more effective I mean having a 100% or 99% effective rate and very little side effects, certainly no blood clot or heart issues.

They've been working on a similar vaccine since SARS. The Oxford-AZ one is about a decade in the making for example.

The side effects are also quite rare, despite what the media reports.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

You can't speed up time though no matter how much money is involved, so long term effects are not known.

By more effective I mean having a 100% or 99% effective rate and very little side effects, certainly no blood clot or heart issues.

How long do you think the current state of lockdowns and closed borders and restrictions should be maintained while scientists work on this gold standard vaccine you’re contemplating?

 

[kaiserchief13]

How long do you think the current state of lockdowns and closed borders and restrictions should be maintained while scientists work on this gold standard vaccine you’re contemplating?

I don't think there should be any lockdown and people should get the jab if they want it or not, but if not there should be no restrictions on them. Also the jabs should keep getting worked on so they are more effective