Strength Weight/Athletic Training: AFL

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

now that i see your ht/wt stats then you definatly need more rest days...you must have an ectomorphic body type which doesn't lend itself well to high vol/frequent training...you will generally have lesser recovery abilities and/or a faster metabolism which means a) you need more recovery btw sessions and b) need less training days so more cals go towards actual muscle growth, not just fuelling current workouts metabolism

if you're just wanting to get bigger for football then i would strongly strongly suggest just doing the basics...you won't find an afl player doing that many wts ever, and definately not that split...

anything that isn't a deadlift, squat, bench press, row, chin up or military press should be omitted from you pogram

do what you NEED to do, not what you want to do

and also you'll need to start running again soon, it's nov already

 

[Kong]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

Agree with kirky on the rest days and extra calories due to your body type.

I don't know what to tell you, as you want to gain size, but as you're a footballer, a bodybuilding program isn't ideal.

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

In all honesty, recovery isnt a big issue for me - I recover well, and typically feel really good a couple of days after my session. Ready to go again anyway!

Thanks for your help. Ill rework it and have another crack over the next 5-6 weeks and see how I fair from it. If its working well, Ill continue with it, if not Ill mix it up again.

As for the running, I have been doing strong fartleks once a week to keep up my fitness base. Right now though, aerobic capacity isnt my issue.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

inital recovery is easy, the growth part, which is the second part of recovery, and the part you seem to after, is not happening

therefore recovery isn't good or long enough

training only stimulates growth, recovery as does it so if you're training more days then you're resting then when are you gonna grow?

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

How do you know it is not happening though?

I would argue that training 4 days per week and resting 3 is absolutely fine as long as you dont work the same thing every day. Ie if you work Chest on Mondays and Thursdays then thats a 3 day break in between.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

because your inches taller but 9kgs lighter then me

so if you do keep with this split, what do you do when it's time to run again?

 

[mcuzzy]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=158785087105

just do this routine you idiots

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

is he for real?

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

because your inches taller but 9kgs lighter then me

so if you do keep with this split, what do you do when it's time to run again?

When its time to run again, I guess I change the split. In all honesty, the focus on the gym will exist between october-march whilst uni/footy are off. Once uni starts again I dont have time to train for footy and go to gym.

As I said, Ive reworked my program, and will give it a go over the next 5-6 weeks to see how it fairs.

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

what did you change?

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

Really just condensed the program.

Gone from doing:
Legs, Back, Chest 2-3 times per week normally ~5 exercises on each
Bicep, Tricep, Abs, Shoulders 2 times per week normally ~3-4 exercises on each

To:
Legs, Back, Chest, Shoulders 2 times per week
Bicep, Tricep, Abs once per week

- less exercises
- more focus on squats, glutes, bench variations, chinups, deadlift, dips, military press, bent over row (these are done twice per week)
- still work bicep, tricep, etc but use less exercises (will only do 1 or maybe 2 things as oppose to 3-4)

Basically got those core exercises that I do once week, and then I will throw in the other exercises available (peck deck, leg extension, calf raises, flys, crossovers, arm curl, triceps on the rope, etc) just once a week to keep things moving.

In the old program I would of been averaging about 15 exercises per session, but in the new one its cut down to ten.

Sound ok?

 

[cptkirk]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

day 1
front squats to 5 rep max
back squats to 5 rep max starting where front squats finish
step up 3 x 8 - 12
2 core exercises - no crunches!!

day 2
military press 5 rep max
bench press 5 rep max starting where military press finished

day 3
romanian deadlifts 5 rep max
deadlifts 5 rep max starting from where rdl finished
dynamic lunge 3 x 6 - 8
2 core exercises - no crunches

day 4
pull up (if you can do 8 - 10 perfect reps in 1 set) or chin up 5 x 5 paired with db incline bench press 4 x 8 - 10
chest supported db row paired with single arm shoulder press 4 x 8
dips paired with inverted rows x sets of 5 - 10 x 5mins (record total reps and beat each week)

something like that...i wouldn't bother with pec deck, leg ext, flies, crossovers and arms really

 

[Lakey91]

Re: Weight Training: Building Muscle

Few queeries:

Why only a 5 rep max? Ive always considered (and been told) 6-8 is ideal, but up to 12 ok.

Why no crunches? Typically I stick to planks and deeper core exercises, but I still think they are ok.

Is there a video detailing the difference between romain deadlifts and normal deadlifts?

Is there a video showing the proper way to lunge, and the best ways to utilise step ups?

Thanks for your help. Can't wait to give this all a go over the next 5-6 weeks and see how I fair.

 

[carltonblue]

What would some excercises relevant to tackling be?

 

[cptkirk]

Few queeries:

Why only a 5 rep max? Ive always considered (and been told) 6-8 is ideal, but up to 12 ok.

Why no crunches? Typically I stick to planks and deeper core exercises, but I still think they are ok.

Is there a video detailing the difference between romain deadlifts and normal deadlifts?

Is there a video showing the proper way to lunge, and the best ways to utilise step ups?

Thanks for your help. Can't wait to give this all a go over the next 5-6 weeks and see how I fair.

1 - you need some actual strength work in there so lower reps (3 - 5)_ are the way to go
2 - crunches are shit, they do nothing for anything...stick with deep coire exercises
3 - pop both of those in youtrube...rdl's start from a standing position, deads start from the floorm hence it's name "dead" lifts
4 - again should be plenty on youtube but go qith a pretty wide stanbce, get the back knee down to the floor for a very light tap and go and keep the wt throught the heel of the front leg with torso upright...samr for step ups really, just use a becnh that gets your hip at 90 degrees flexion at the bottom of each rep and try and use your back as little as possible

with love from phuket

 

[Lakey91]

Thanks for all your help captain - true swans supporter!

For the record, I did squats with 5 reps on tuesday and LOVED it. Felt good (sore) for a few days. Going again tomorrow.

Enjoy the holiday.

EDIT: Just got back from this morning sessions. Tried a few squat variations which was excellent - incredible really how easier/harder a couple of variations are.

 

[choldy]

Hey guys,

I'm after a little bit of advice for some off season training to start asap. I'm looking to develop a bit more fitness and incorparate some strength training before pre season begins (roughly mid-late January). I'll also continue this through pre and regular seasons although varied somewhat to deal with gameday and the extra team training sessions. At this stage I'm unsure of my playing commitments as I could be doing some coaching, ideally I want to cut down on my playing time and move into coaching.

A bit of history about me: I'm 27, 6'3 and about 87kgs. I didn't play this year due to work commitments, had a reasonably solid season last year mainly as a ruckman/kpp (despite some niggling injuries). I'm looking to probably step down in leagues to quite a low grade amateur side to play/coach, coaching is where I want to be but will probably need to put in a few games as we could be short for players. I've been doing a bit of light running for the last month, previous to that I'd started some weight training at the start of the year. I did a 5X5 type program for a few months then went into a Crossfit program for about 6 months. 5X5 was great and got my numbers up decently and packed on some muscle (started at about 82kgs, got to 90kgs but have dropped back down since). I started the Crossfit program as my next door neighbour runs a gym and I got conned into it, first impressions were it's great. After I pushed through a workout, then being barely being able to walk for 2 days, my Osteopath finally came to the conclusion that my sacroiliac joint is what's been giving me back issues for the last 10 years. I have some exercises now that seem to help and with his advice, I 'avoid anything that makes it hurt'. I was having some doubts about Crossfit before the injury, but now definately don't think it's the right thing for me.

What I'm looking for now is some guidance to developing a program that's suitable for me for these next few months. I've looked at fitfooty.com and there's a ton of info that looks really suitable, I've got a feeling a poster on here is the author but not sure. Anybody have any comments on this program?

cptkirk - I have looked at the aussierulestraining blog site, am definately interested in the new program that will be put up, any idea when that will be out?

I'm basically looking to develop my core stability & strength, along with muscle endurance. To drop a little bit of bodyfat would be good, although I'm naturally lean anyway and I definately don't want to drop weight. I'm also keen to increase my repeat sprint capabilities as this is something I've probably struggled with previously.

I'm based in Perth, WA and have no hesitation in paying a professional to help me if anybody has any recommendations also.

 

[cptkirk]

hey mate,

i hope to have it out by the end of next week, just got to finalise the manual

and yep, crossfit is shit...

what have/are you doing for the si joint? i have a similar past issue but it seems to be fixed but my suggestion is to really get your posterior chain up and about...my arse is huge really which seems to "bunch" everything up back there so i can't slip out as easily...chiro care helped me a lot too but i was lucky to find a very good one

core stability - this really needs to be tested to see exactly where it is...you don't just need core stability by itself, you need full body integration with core stability which is why i'm not a fan of pilates in genral

strength endurance - you know by the sounds of your frame i don;t think this is a bigger a problem as you may think...i may be wrong but i think you may just need to get stronger in the true sense, such as 3 - 5 reps per set strong

dropping fat - i think i've posted on this on the site but if you need to drop fat then do it above all else as it will make you faster without actually getting faster, you simply have less mass to move at your current speed...it will also improve your repeated sprints

repeated sprints - use a density training set up

 

[choldy]

I liked the idea of Crossfit, it makes you a rounded athlete, but not really great at any one thing. I guess this would fit in with footy, where you need to be fast, strong and have endurance. But I don't agree with the training methods, especially doing resonably heavy oly lifting when fatigued and with the emphasis always on time.

For the SI joint I was doing some swimming - have been a bit slack lately due to family & other commitments but getting back into it -and also some isometric ab exercises. The advice from the osteo was to keep active, get back into lifting weights, running etc. but just to manage it and avoid any exercises that cause the inflammation & pain.

My 5rm on deadlift was 150kg, bench 100kg, squat 120kg & OHP 60kg before I went to the Crossfit program, so I'd really just like to get back to those sorts of numbers but increase my aerobic capacity. I've always been fairly athletic, sprint times & vertical leap etc. have always been good. But the last few years I've struggled with a lot of tightness in my back, hamstrings & groin areas (more than likely related to the muscles overcompensating for the si joint issue).

Will your training manual cover most of the stuff I'm looking for?

I do a lot of reading but sometimes it's hard to filter out the bullshit from the sound logic, and I really don't have the time to try various programs to see if they work. I just want to put something together that I know I'll get results from that I can continue to use and adapt as I need.

Also as I'm looking to move into coaching can you recommend any formal education that might be of use to me to help out in the fitness/strength aspect? ie. Tafe courses etc.
I know I can do something like a cert 3/4 in fitness but I'm not really interested in the PT wank, just gaining knowledge and their practical applications. I was also looking at something like a level 1 Strength and Conditioning program but I'm not sure if this would be suitable?

Any advice and help guys is much appreciated.

 

[cptkirk]

yeah, heavy technical lifting under fatigue is a recipe for disaster...there's just much better ways to go about it and for footy you don't need to be able to do hang cleans for 20mins, you need to able to run for 20mins

do you know what exercises/movements cause inflammation/pain? that may give us a better idea of what to do for it...sometimes you might just be doing something wrong which causes pain which isn't an exercise problem, it's a technique/movement based problem

strength numbers are good but the discrepancy between your bench and military press isn't great...that tells me some improvement can be made with core integration work as mentioned in the last post...if your core can't stabilise a load then it won't let your body lift it...during bench presses your lying down so you don't need a lot of core action to do the lift...let me reward that, you can get away with not a lot of core action to do the lift, you'd do more if you did though

also with your position in the ground (key position) you need to determine what is actually holding you back...is it aerobic or anaerobic capacity? can you keep a decent pace for the game but your not explosive enough? are you great off the lead but second effort is lacking? i'm all about 10secs myself...

the back thing could be a compensation thing but you've likely got some postural dysfunction going on which is the defining problem

the manual will cover a lot of postural stuff and gym work stuff...it's not a program either and it's best used to complement what you do and actually be able to do the training better, thus becoming a better player (play like you train mantra)

a PT course will teach basically nothing so maybe the S&C course may be the way to go but i don't really know what they teach you in it...the collingwood fitness bloke (david someone??) is doing a seminar in melb in jan which might be worth going to if you can get over here, ill be going pending birth...

 

[choldy]

do you know what exercises/movements cause inflammation/pain? that may give us a better idea of what to do for it...sometimes you might just be doing something wrong which causes pain which isn't an exercise problem, it's a technique/movement based problem

Military press probably caused the most discomfort out of lifts, with the only other noticeable pain coming from doing high reps of deadlifts & cleans (which is obvious). Situps seemed to be the killer, although apparently my technique is sound. I think the lifts has to do with technique becoming worse as fatigue sets in - hence why I think Crossfit sucks, but military press usually seemed to cause a bit of a niggle, manageable most of the time but a niggle nonetheless.

strength numbers are good but the discrepancy between your bench and military press isn't great...that tells me some improvement can be made with core integration work as mentioned in the last post...if your core can't stabilise a load then it won't let your body lift it...during bench presses your lying down so you don't need a lot of core action to do the lift...let me reward that, you can get away with not a lot of core action to do the lift, you'd do more if you did though

This makes sense, and ties in with what I've said above.

also with your position in the ground (key position) you need to determine what is actually holding you back...is it aerobic or anaerobic capacity? can you keep a decent pace for the game but your not explosive enough? are you great off the lead but second effort is lacking? i'm all about 10secs myself...

Generally my explosiveness has never been a problem, more repeated efforts. I'm usually left wanting towards the end of a match. I'd like to improve this as I'd like to be able to do stints in the midfield as I'm a pretty good clearance player, and something the club lacks is grunty midfielders who can win the hard ball. It'd be nice to be able to lead by example and show some of the younger guys how to win their own.

the back thing could be a compensation thing but you've likely got some postural dysfunction going on which is the defining problem

the manual will cover a lot of postural stuff and gym work stuff...it's not a program either and it's best used to complement what you do and actually be able to do the training better, thus becoming a better player (play like you train mantra)

Yeah I know my posture for a lot of years has been shithouse. It's something I've worked on with physio's and chiro's and it's gotten better. My back issues have probably restricted me in playing the way I've wanted to however in the last couple of years I've learnt to better deal with them, so most of the time it's not a problem.
I've always been a hard worker at training, now I just want to work a bit smarter so that I'm getting maximum results for my effort. I find that footy clubs (especially at lower levels) can overtrain or undertrain guys depending on fitness levels, previous experience etc. There is a generalisation that running punishing long distances during the preseason helps during the season but for a lot of guys I really don't think it does. I'd rather focus more on my fitness and getting it working for me in my own time and use footy training for mainly the skills and team play side of things.

 

[cptkirk]

1 - never do crunches, ever
2 - a density approach will work great for your repeated efforts then...basically choose a distance relative to your position/fitness - doesn't really matter, maybe 100m and do a set number of sets with a specific rest that decreases each week...this is in the manual

your ideas are right in line with mine, training efficiency is vital for local/amateurs, not training volume

 

[not10playon]

Also as I'm looking to move into coaching can you recommend any formal education that might be of use to me to help out in the fitness/strength aspect? ie. Tafe courses etc.
I know I can do something like a cert 3/4 in fitness but I'm not really interested in the PT wank, just gaining knowledge and their practical applications. I was also looking at something like a level 1 Strength and Conditioning program but I'm not sure if this would be suitable?

Any advice and help guys is much appreciated.[/quote]

Try ASCA (Australian Strength and Conditioning Association) website they run courses in each state or online.

 

[kaydub]

hey mate,
core stability - this really needs to be tested to see exactly where it is...you don't just need core stability by itself, you need full body integration with core stability which is why i'm not a fan of pilates in genral

Umm Pilates &/or Yoga is full body integration, they are exercises for flexibility, core strength, balance, posture, and more. Improving any of these is of immense benefit to an athlete.

Type Pilates Athlete into Amazon.com for some food for thought. Here are a few I have read recently.

http://www.amazon.com/Real-Men-Yoga-Flexibility-Performance/dp/0757301126/ref=pd_sim_b_4

http://www.amazon.com/Making-Connections-Integration-Bartenieff-Fundamentals/dp/905699591X

 

[cptkirk]

The Aussie Rules Training Off Season Training Manual IS HERE!!

http://aussierulestraining.blogspot.com/2010/11/its-here.html