West V. Mummy

[darren forssman]

at 198cm is just a tad too short to play in the ruck unless we are depleted.

unless mumford has shot up 5-10 cms in the last year west was taller than him in the 2008 team shot.

 

[noclashjumpers]

Now given that Bomber stated that he was 'over-ruled' with the selection of Mumford last week. Is it likely the coach could be ignored 2 weeks running, or has Bomber moved over to Mumford's side?

After hearing that last week, I get the impression that Bomber has a preference for West no matter what happens.

That's pretty short sighted IMO. For everything we've seen so far, Mummy has easily shown the most.

 

[catswhiskers]

unless mumford has shot up 5-10 cms in the last year west was taller than him in the 2008 team shot.

On the GFC website Mummy is listed at 200 and West at 198cm.

Doesn't sound much but I think going forward 200 is the minimum.

 

[Belisarius]

From what I have read previously it would seem that West has more pace than Mumford. I trust some one who has seen them more often than myself will be able to confirm or deny this for me.

If this statement is accurate then I would hope that Geelong will try out West in the twos at CHB. I would like to see how this works out before it comes time to delist players at the end of the year. Height and pace are not a usual combination - so it would be well worth the trial.

 

[meto]

From what I have read previously it would seem that West has more pace than Mumford. I trust some one who has seen them more often than myself will be able to confirm or deny this for me.

If this statement is accurate then I would hope that Geelong will try out West in the twos at CHB. I would like to see how this works out before it comes time to delist players at the end of the year. Height and pace are not a usual combination - so it would be well worth the trial.

If Mumfords played CHB in the 2s, would indicate to me he has the superior pace.
Bomber doesn't sound like he takes on advice well, if he got down to the 2s he'd get some idea.
Maybe they should pit them in training but I still think Mumford has performed better where its required, nil possessions is still 0.

 

[DanA]

If Mumfords played CHB in the 2s, would indicate to me he has the superior pace.
Bomber doesn't sound like he takes on advice well, if he got down to the 2s he'd get some idea.
Maybe they should pit them in training but I still think Mumford has performed better where its required, nil possessions is still 0.

West has spent more time at CHB than Mumford has

 

[hbk_aus]

Todays Addy:


"The positive to come from Ottens' extended absence is the development of Shane Mumford as a back-up ruckman to Mark Blake.
The 200cm 22-year-old impressed Thompson with his 10 tackles in the wet against Brisbane last Sunday.
"That's one of the reasons why we like him and he's in the side," Thompson said.
"He does the ruck work and gets his percentage of hitouts but he follows up at ground level and we love big guys who can do that. He hasn't let us down so far."

 

[meto]

Todays Addy:


"The positive to come from Ottens' extended absence is the development of Shane Mumford as a back-up ruckman to Mark Blake.
The 200cm 22-year-old impressed Thompson with his 10 tackles in the wet against Brisbane last Sunday.
"That's one of the reasons why we like him and he's in the side," Thompson said.
"He does the ruck work and gets his percentage of hitouts but he follows up at ground level and we love big guys who can do that. He hasn't let us down so far."

It's true the tallish solid ruckmen can jump in at ground level and through their weight in, where as the leggy leaner ruckmen just stand upright all the time.
Will be good having a 100+ kilo body helping in the packs.

 

[Tay29]

An opinion.............or a fairly assertive statement?

Is it fair to say that Blakey has feasted on Maric, Tippett and Clark over the last two weeks? Maybe even spat 'em out like toothpicks?

Is it feasible that poor old Blakey is a better ruckman than Tay29 is a judge???

I think it is fair to say that Blakey is a far better ruckman than hoody is at comprehension.

If you had read the quote from vinum coupe, he was asking which ruckmen has given away more free kicks against than Blake. Those are the ruckmen.

BTW, lauding Blake's better ruckwork over Mitch Clark is crazy. The guy is a forward line player. It's the same as saying Blake killed Mooney in the ruck. It is a feat that shouldn't get mentioned let alone recognition.

 

[fpm84]

I see a lot of potential in West, but think it's time to start turning him into a KPP. Much prefer Mumford over him as a ruckman, and Blake's our clear second ruckman (who has been very, very good in Otto's absence so far).

 

[noclashjumpers]

Now given that Bomber stated that he was 'over-ruled' with the selection of Mumford last week. Is it likely the coach could be ignored 2 weeks running, or has Bomber moved over to Mumford's side?

After hearing that last week, I get the impression that Bomber has a preference for West no matter what happens.

That's pretty short sighted IMO. For everything we've seen so far, Mummy has easily shown the most.

No-one has an opinion on this? It might make our pontificating on this issue a bit more irrelevant than usual.

 

[darren forssman]

On the GFC website Mummy is listed at 200 and West at 198cm.

Doesn't sound much but I think going forward 200 is the minimum.

i cant access the afl or gfc official sites on either my work or home computer. the window just crashes.

has anyone got a picture of them side by side?

listings can be skewed, kevin garnett from the nba is listed at 6'11 but in reality is over 7 foot, but he just doesnt want to be known as a centre. wouldnt surprise me if the same happens in the afl.

 

[Gaz_Brownlow]

I think it is fair to say that Blakey is a far better ruckman than hoody is at comprehension.

If you had read the quote from vinum coupe, he was asking which ruckmen has given away more free kicks against than Blake. Those are the ruckmen.

BTW, lauding Blake's better ruckwork over Mitch Clark is crazy. The guy is a forward line player. It's the same as saying Blake killed Mooney in the ruck. It is a feat that shouldn't get mentioned let alone recognition.

Still, all the same, he did his job and significantly whopped ass. Anybody criticising Blake this season has got some serious prejudice against him.

 

[Asty]

On the GFC website Mummy is listed at 200 and West at 198cm.

Doesn't sound much but I think going forward 200 is the minimum.

Brendan Lade 199cm is not a bad ruckman even though not 200cm.

200 may be the general rule but brain, athletism/mobility, marking power, goal kicking, tackling, leap etc etc etc all play a part.

 

[meto]

Still, all the same, he did his job and significantly whopped ass. Anybody criticising Blake this season has got some serious prejudice against him.

Blakes aware of his bigger body this year and enjoys the physical aspects of ruckwork now. Not only that but the guys' tough and durable and is starting to get good with his handpassing to midfielders on the fly.
Mumford complements him with a more inside aproach which suits his body type, whereas blakey tends to screen the ballcarrier often through the midfield. Rucks are starting to look good.

 

[catempire]

I am not as bullish about West as others.

Can you think of a single ruckman who has been unable to make it in that position but has been successful elsewhere as a key position player?

I really like West's mobility but he doesn't have any other outstanding qualities required of a key position player. He doesn't seem to have a big engine, he doesn't take contested grabs and he doesn't kick goals.

For mine that means he could only make it as a defender if anything, but I'd really have my doubts about him up against the best forwards in the comp and in any case, I'd have Lonergan and Mumford (who I have seen play well at CHB) ahead of him.

I think he's the one in trouble at year's end.

 

[hamG]

Can you think of a single ruckman who has been unable to make it in that position but has been successful elsewhere as a key position player?

Mooney?

Adam Goodes used to ruck a fair bit till he got a series of injuries.

David Hale as a perm forward would kick 50-70 goals.

 

[catempire]

Mooney?

Adam Goodes used to ruck a fair bit till he got a series of injuries.

David Hale as a perm forward would kick 50-70 goals.

Whenever you ask these questions, someone always nails you with at least one example.

Mooney and Goodes were both key forwards in their junior days.

Hale though, is a reasonable example. I still think he could ruck though but perhaps is played more as a forward out of necessity and because they have McIntosh to take first ruck and Petrie to pinch hit.

But even this example kind of proves my point. Hale is an exceptional contested mark and difficult to match up on for that reason. I just don't think West has this quality. I'd happily be proven wrong though.

 

[Tay29]

Still, all the same, he did his job and significantly whopped ass. Anybody criticising Blake this season has got some serious prejudice against him.

And that is where Blake supporters lose all credibility. They'll take any victory to say he's got potential and he's doing a good job. What he did on the weekend was what was expected of him because of who he was rucking against. He didn't do anything special nor something extra. If he rucked like he did against say Charman then you would have something to be proud of but he didn't.

I am not prejudiced against him but I do think I am realistic about him. He's only ever going to be a mediocre football player who has one skill, he gets his hands to the ball for tap work more than his opponent. How anyone can think that is all he needs to do as a modern day footballer is beyond me. Anyway, this thread is about West and Mumford and I don't want to hijack it.

Interesting talk about height here and making a choice of who should be ruckmen out of it. Both are smaller than Josh Fraser but taller than Ryder. If you're talking about who has the best reach (height + jump) from my untrained eye, West has a much bigger vertical leap than Mumford, easily surpassing the 2cm difference in height. But big men don't get shorter as the day goes.

Also, keep in mind that West had 16 hitouts against tougher opposition in Josh Fraser who, as mentioned, is taller than West and a bonafide ruck. Mumford had 23 hitouts against Mitch Clark who is the same height (Fraser is taller) but is more forward than ruck. Mumford only had 8 hitouts against a much better ruck combination (compared to Brisbane) in Tippet and Maric.

I think at this early stage, it's impossible to call who deserves to be ruck. Both have played a handful of games and haven't really had a stretch at playing at the elite level, like what they are trying with Hawkins. If the club can do that then they'll have a better idea on who will be the better player.

 

[DanA]

Whenever you ask these questions, someone always nails you with at least one example.

There is a heap of them in this case.

The big fish Paul Salmon and Corey McKernan are the obvious choices
Kruiser and Tippet look like modern day examples

 

[DanA]

And that is where Blake supporters lose all credibility. They'll take any victory to say he's got potential and he's doing a good job. What he did on the weekend was what was expected of him because of who he was rucking against. He didn't do anything special nor something extra. If he rucked like he did against say Charman then you would have something to be proud of but he didn't.

I am not prejudiced against him but I do think I am realistic about him. He's only ever going to be a mediocre football player who has one skill, he gets his hands to the ball for tap work more than his opponent. How anyone can think that is all he needs to do as a modern day footballer is beyond me. Anyway, this thread is about West and Mumford and I don't want to hijack it.

I think he is already better than mediocre. He's not going to be Dean Cox but I think he's good enough to carry the load as first ruck at most clubs and is about as good a backup ruckmen as there is going around. Blake's definately got limitation, a bit like Matthew Clarke did, but there's no doubting in my mind he's a handy footballer for us.

 

[catempire]

There is a heap of them in this case.

The big fish Paul Salmon and Corey McKernan are the obvious choices
Kruiser and Tippet look like modern day examples

Those guys could/can ruck though.

Read what I said again.

 

[Tay29]

I think he is already better than mediocre. He's not going to be Dean Cox but I think he's good enough to carry the load as first ruck at most clubs and is about as good a backup ruckmen as there is going around. Blake's definately got limitation, a bit like Matthew Clarke did, but there's no doubting in my mind he's a handy footballer for us.

Yeah, I can't agree on better than mediocre. Not saying you're wrong as it's your opinion. Looking critically at his game in all areas, this is how I judge him;
- Good tap ruckman with AFL standard hitout to advantage but, and others agree with this, seems to directly tap the ball a lot to opposition players rather than 50/50 situations.
- Gets a lot of his possessions in the corridor off half back providing a link to running players.
- Ball watches after ruck contests (Fraser took advantage of this by running forward catching Blake out several times) .
- Second efforts are virtually non-existent. Not often you'll see him go into a pack after a ruck contest like Ottens, Mumford and West do.
- Not a very good tackler when having to tackle front on.
- Rarely takes a contested mark.
- Slow and lacks agility which means he is usually always chasing his opponent.
- Doesn't seem strong enough to spoil on the goal line or in pack/marking contests.
- Suspect kick.

That's what I can think of off the top of my head. Not trying to bash the guy. That's my honest opinion of his game.

Answer me this, if our midfield wasn't so good do you think Blake's deficiencies would be more exposed than what they are?