Western Sydney AFL team?

[scottwade]

Thanks DMJR, fascinating post.

Particularly interested in your observations relating to Townsville & Canberra and how that impacts on the AFL's current long term strategy in the Northern states.

 

[DMJR]

And away we go:

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/two-more-clubs-for-afl/2008/02/15/1202760607682.html

Some people are happy:

http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/sydneys-west-is-wild-about-afl/2008/02/15/1202760608113.html

Once they award the licence I wonder how they will go about it; On a previous post I suggeted "To create a second Sydney side by 2015; we could establish a new identity based upon a representative SFL/SFA side. Over a number of years this side would play as many games as possible as curtain- raisers to Swans matches, against other Australian Rules Leagues. The idea would be to get the new identity into the minds of the Sydney Australian rules public. This could then be the basis of the new side when it was decided to form the second Sydney AFL Club".

However with the now much shorter time frame I think they are more likely to establish a Team with younger players who don't get picked up after being in the NSW/ACT scholarship and older types with unfulfilled potential (ie. failed at their first AFL club and didn't get a second chance); put it together a few years before actually joining the AFL and play for a year or two in the VFL, SANFL or even ACTAFL. This might allow the club to find its feet before starting in the AFL. As it was building in the lesser league and when it entered the AFL, it would be given draft concessions for sometime so as to be able to put together a competative list.

 

[ssfc0203]

Yeah, I just saw it in the paper too. Looks like they're pretty serious about doing it very soon.

Any names, just to have a squiz? Western Sydney Dunderheads, i though - although I'm kind of owning myself in that too

 

[is2SWaNz]

Hmm... Blacktown seem that they're up for it. As for me, I'm still a bit sceptic about the plan. Its a wonder if those who've 'packed out' at the oval in Blacktown actually know much about Sydney Swans. People around my area, in the inner west, don't know anything about AFL nor do they know anything about the Sydney Swans. Sure, they've heard about the team but do they really follow the game? They hardly know the players... probably except for the 'big bald guy'.

"We had the Sydney Swans out here for a special promotion and the place was packed out. I reckon that with a second team you might get a lot of Swans supporters switching across."

Traitors!!!

 

[RUNVS]

They hardly know the players... probably except for the 'big bald guy'.

You have to love the big bald guy

What a Western Sydney team needs is a cult figure like Tony Lockett was for the Swans. The type of player that the crowd love as that will really help the development of a Western Sydney team.

 

[is2SWaNz]

You have to love the big bald guy

What a Western Sydney team needs is a cult figure like Tony Lockett was for the Swans. The type of player that the crowd love as that will really help the development of a Western Sydney team.

Thats true, Western Sydney love their cult figures and big men.

 

[bedford]

maybe they could put another team in sydney and move the swans back home.

just kidding

 

[No1SwansFan]

A little bit of news for those interested in this idea of a team in WS. They are creating a new junior team to e based out of Rooty Hill at the new ground. They are supposed to be called Rooty Hill Power. So it looks as if they are starting the leg work already.
megan

 

[western swan]

im sure ther'd b a few jokes about that team heheh

but i dont rekon ther is enough players to even make 2 more teams, let alone enough supporters in sydney...im thinkin they need a tassi team or even a NT team? just to make it a 'national' league

i dunno, just puttin it out ther

 

[Undisputed_King]

It will never work.

I've lived in sydney for all of my life, and I have not come across many 'true' AFL fans. Most of the people that I know will keep one eye on the swans if they're doing well, but will quickly lose interest if the swans aren't firing.

A second AFL team in sydney is at least a decade away for mine

 

[No1SwansFan]

Im a swans fan through and through. Will never ever change my loyalties. regardless of how close to me this other team would be and let me say I could walk to their training ground in about 15 - 20mins. I grew up with the swans my kids have grown up with the swans and will continue to do so.

There definitely isnt the support out this way to deal with another team. Would perhaps a little further up the coast be a better option. Somewhere around newcastle maybe?

 

[J-swan]

Im a swans fan through and through. Will never ever change my loyalties. regardless of how close to me this other team would be and let me say I could walk to their training ground in about 15 - 20mins. I grew up with the swans my kids have grown up with the swans and will continue to do so.

There definitely isnt the support out this way to deal with another team. Would perhaps a little further up the coast be a better option. Somewhere around newcastle maybe?

I'm with you, the Central Coast or Newcastle would seem, population wise at least, to be a much more viable option, though I doubt there would be a suitable ground large enough to host games.

 

[ssfc0203]

They have a very old following of the Knights, although not everyone would be RL+.

But it looks like the AFL are going forward no matter what, and, unless people desert the Swans (bandwagoners!) i really don't care.

 

[RUNVS]

They have a very old following of the Knights, although not everyone would be RL+.

But it looks like the AFL are going forward no matter what, and, unless people desert the Swans (bandwagoners!) i really don't care.

The thing about Bandwaggoners is that they will support whatever Sydney team is doing well so as long as 1 of the Sydney teams are competitive then the bandwaggoners will remain.

 

[ssfc0203]

It means fluctuating memberships until both teams stabilise, i guess, although i think our membership tally will more or less remain the same. You just don't spend close to a hundred dollars because you're a bandwagoner.

 

[Pj.Rj.Hj]

A second sydney team fasinates me. I really don't know the true core strenght of Australian Football in Sydney so maybe some of you can inform me.

All I can say is that I like many West Aussie didn't want Fremantle in the league for purely selfish reasons, obviously the state had the fan base for a second team. One thing I didn't see coming was how it galvanised support for the eagles. Before Freo, even during the early 90's powerhouse team, crowds for the eagles were lazy and stable at around 25 000. You new your team, almost everyone had that team and no one asked questions til' suddenly Fremantle were in and people had to draw a line, pick a side.

Sydney (the city) just might surpise itself and find a larger than expected firery support for local competion. As many of you would know with your NRL clubs, local derby's rock. In WA and SA the derby/showdown weeks stop the citys' much like SOS for you guys. It would be really cool to see a packed out SCG for Swans games and Telstra for the new team. East vs West, bring is on!

For the new team they will obviously set up club and training at the Blacktown facility while playing out of Telstra stadium. Being in NSW an appropiate colour would be the state pale blue and maybe navy?
I like the names the West Sydney Blue Tongues or the Funnel-Webs.

Question, do the swans have a social club like the leagues clubs and could a new team create such a venue?

 

[J-swan]

A second sydney team fasinates me. I really don't know the true core strenght of Australian Football in Sydney so maybe some of you can inform me.

All I can say is that I like many West Aussie didn't want Fremantle in the league for purely selfish reasons, obviously the state had the fan base for a second team. One thing I didn't see coming was how it galvanised support for the eagles. Before Freo, even during the early 90's powerhouse team, crowds for the eagles were lazy and stable at around 25 000. You new your team, almost everyone had that team and no one asked questions til' suddenly Fremantle were in and people had to draw a line, pick a side.

Sydney (the city) just might surpise itself and find a larger than expected firery support for local competion. As many of you would know with your NRL clubs, local derby's rock. In WA and SA the derby/showdown weeks stop the citys' much like SOS for you guys. It would be really cool to see a packed out SCG for Swans games and Telstra for the new team. East vs West, bring is on!

For the new team they will obviously set up club and training at the Blacktown facility while playing out of Telstra stadium. Being in NSW an appropiate colour would be the state pale blue and maybe navy?
I like the names the West Sydney Blue Tongues or the Funnel-Webs.

Question, do the swans have a social club like the leagues clubs and could a new team create such a venue?

You raise a really good point about the galvanizing of support, I'd never thought about it quite like that before. I know many people that (due to our improved form and profile) have started to take an interest in the game but really don't call themselves Swans supporters, that may change if they had a local team.
I would just love to have a derby. This, above anything else, is the main reason I'd like a second team.
In answer to your question regarding the social club, yes the Swans have a fully licensed leagues club called "Club Swans" in the heart of Kings Cross. If a second team where formed, with the club culture of Sydney, in particular western Sydney, a leagues club would be a brilliant idea.

 

[Liesha]

Im a swans fan through and through. Will never ever change my loyalties. regardless of how close to me this other team would be and let me say I could walk to their training ground in about 15 - 20mins. I grew up with the swans my kids have grown up with the swans and will continue to do so.

There definitely isnt the support out this way to deal with another team. Would perhaps a little further up the coast be a better option. Somewhere around newcastle maybe?

Im with you on this one. Im a swans fan through and through, but Im also a Westie through and through, and I certainly wont be changing who I support just because of their location.
I can see a second Sydney team falling flat on it's face after about 5 minutes. Most people out here in Sydney follow rugby league very strongly, but it's still a huge struggle to get people to attend the games. I would be very interested to know what makes the AFL think that there is enough support for a second team.

 

[ssfc0203]

Western Sydney has a majority of the 'nuclear family' types, with more and more young and old kids participating in Auskick and district competitions.
To see a burgeoning team develop as the Western Suburbs continue to develop will, i think, create a foundation for a grassroots footy culture.
Parents love AR, since it is a medium to low impact sport that not only involves die hard fans, but also on-off fans who don't need to know every single rule to enjoy the game.

 

[Big Wheel]

I think another team in sydney will not work!!

You have already created a supporter base with the swans. Most people in Sydney who follow the swans are not going to turn their back on them when another team arrives.

The only other way to do this is make an exsiting team move there. They already have a supporter base.
Look at the bears lions merger. Bears were terrible, then when they merged things started to go well for them.

The AFL should really think about having a team in Tassie (full time) and a team in either NT (to bloody hot) or Canberra. At least you will have a team repersenting your state thus buliding a fan base.

 

[Burningleviathan]

A little bit of news for those interested in this idea of a team in WS. They are creating a new junior team to e based out of Rooty Hill at the new ground. They are supposed to be called Rooty Hill Power. So it looks as if they are starting the leg work already.
megan

Rooty Hill? good god, no team will make it there without suffering a few casualties

 

[adhs]

I think a second AFL team in western Sydney will work.

When you think about it the AFL has never properly approached establishing an AFL side in Sydney in the same way they approached SA, WA and Qld markets.

In 1982 when South Melbourne moved to Sydney it was their last chance to survive and not a desire to expand Australian Football into Australia's biggest city. I think it was only in the early 90s when the Swans were close to death that there was talk about redfeining the brand and making it more relevant to the Sydney market (eg changing the nickname and colours to be more representative of NSW/Sydney). However the passion of Sth Melbourne fans and the realisation that doing so would be completely turning backs on a potential supporter base in Melbourne saw the Swans reaffirm their history even more, which culminated in Paul Roos' famous quote on the podium after the 2005 Grand Final.

However, while this history is great for the Swans it still means Sydney has never really had it's "own" AFL team with it's own Sydney personality/image.

Establishing a team in western Sydney and basing it in the geographic centre of the city, gives the AFL an opportunity to establish from the ground up a team for Sydney and the Sydney sporting market in the 21st century.

The Sydney sporting market has changed since 1982. Back then the NSWRL was the dominant code and was still based around suburban rivalries although in 1982 teams were introduced from Canberra (AFL territory) and Illawarra (sth coast NSW). Rugby union was amateur and the local suburban competition was the focus of attention and Soccer teams in the National Soccer League were still very much supported along ethinc loyalties.

Fast forward to 2008 and Sydney teams now compete in trans-Tasman competitions against teams from other states and NZ. NRL has streamlined the amount of Sydney teams in it's competition through mergers and natural attrition; Professionalism, the Super 14 and a more consistent schedule has galvanised rugby union's supporter base; Sydney FC have drawn huge crowds in only 3 seasons of the streamlined soccer A-League and the appeal of the sport has broadened with the success of the Socceroos.

While the Swans have developed and grown Australian football in Sydney over the past 25 years, with the increased competition from the other codes I can't see them being able to grow the code much further. I feel they've maxed out their potential fan base (drawn largely from the eastern suburbs and north shore) and with the end of the golden era seemingly over it will demonstrate the pressure that is on this sole club as they attempt to rebuild while remaining competitive - a problem clubs in Melbourne, Perth and Adelaide don't face as the support of the code doesn't depend on the success of their teams.

Sydney needs another AFL team, a team for the 21st century and beyond, with a Sydney identity. A western Sydney AFL team serves more of a purpose than just winning flags (Fremantle are based in an AFL state and their best finish is a Prelimary Final appearance in over a decade). They need to have a presence to compete against other codes, take the pressure off the Swans in developing Australian football and demonstrate to Sydneysiders that AFL is more than just the Swans. 2012 is not too early. Waiting any longer will allow soccer and possibly Rugby Union to establish teams in the region and rugby league will only continue to maintain it's stranglehold. By establishing a team in western Sydney the AFL is demonstrating it's commitment to footy in NSW and lightening the load on the Swans. It's more than just the twice a season blockbusters at ANZ Stadium between the Swans and the new teams... Think about it during pre-season camps when the Swans travel to Coffs Harbour, the second team can travel to Dubbo or Canberra, reaching twice as many people, AFL matches will be played in Sydney every weekend, more teams=more opportunities for aspiring AFL players in Sydney and around the country.

Western Sydney is a long-term proposition whether you launch the team in 2012 or 2020. I don't see western Sydney AFL fans marching in the streets by 2020 for their own team any more than they are now. Until they finally have a team with a logo, colours, coach and players they will continue to go along to the occasional Swans match at ANZ Stadium. So it's better to hit the ground running before these fans are taken by rival codes because once that happens it will be impossible to get them back.

 

[MushroomRocket]

right now afl should concentrate on gold coast. west sydney whould come 2 years after that.

 

[denbert]

Why not leverage one of the existing small clubs?

 

[denbert]

Rooty Hill? good god, no team will make it there without suffering a few casualties

Oi, that's my home-town!