Opinion What are our current areas of concern or improvement required

[BlueTongue]

I think having a busting salary cap with a middling team is always a recipe for disaster --Need a real reset with list and structure of payments -- maybe if finish low enough take band one for TDK he has plays 4 of his best games in our 4 losses and was probably beaten by both Nank and Cameron --
Going for long periods without impacting scoreboard has been a problem for a very long time even when we were winning all our scoring was coming in a single term..

I agree, and I think we've long targeted players who are 'up for grabs' ie. want to come back to Vic.

This usually ends up with us overpaying because we are desperate to be seen as a 'go to' club, instead of doing our research and targeting players who can be prised out of clubs with a minimum of fuss and bidding for services with stupid $$.

Blake Acres was a good call, but most of our other forays into player recruitment has had us paying stupid overs.
We need to start targeting players who will fulfill a specific need, and not necessarily the best in the comp.

 

[Ezayyak]

I think this is a very poor reading of history.

We didn’t catch the opposition off guard in 23, they already knew our weaknesses. We were just too good once we pulled our finger out, but were coming from too far behind, were banged up and lost an interstate prelim by 16 points.

The 6 loses to end the season last year were all very different to each other.
They weren’t about us getting worked out, they were a combination of us shooting ourselves in the foot, and player availability/fitness.
When we limped into an away final against the Premiers, we decided to make 6 selection changes and have TDK as our sub.

I do however agree that Sam Mitchell would have our list playing very differently.

FAir enough, Stamos. This is the first time I've found myself at odds with you. Pretty much have found myself in agreement with all your opinions over the last few years...I guess this is where the line is drawn

 

[Stamos]

FAir enough, Stamos. This is the first time I've found myself at odds with you. Pretty much have found myself in agreement with all your opinions over the last few years...I guess this is where the line is drawn

 

[BlueTongue]

I don't care for Jackson stat comparisons.

More than 600k on a ruckman is a waste of money, mobile or not.

Get used to it. You are living in the 2010's

 

[jd2010]

Get used to it. You are living in the 2010's

Even though 9 of the last 10 premiership winning rucks were just okay...

Others are living in a fantasy land that TDK matters

 

[bigm386]

I agree, and I think we've long targeted players who are 'up for grabs' ie. want to come back to Vic.

This usually ends up with us overpaying because we are desperate to be seen as a 'go to' club, instead of doing our research and targeting players who can be prised out of clubs with a minimum of fuss and bidding for services with stupid $$.

Blake Acres was a good call, but most of our other forays into player recruitment has had us paying stupid overs.
We need to start targeting players who will fulfill a specific need, and not necessarily the best in the comp.

I get we have had some shockers. Williams and McGovern are two that come to mind instantly.

We have also not given up much for the likes of Newman, Hewitt and Acres.

We seem to stuff up the big name acquisition and pluck unknowns for later picks.

 

[Jimmyonesix]

Blake Acres was a good call,

Unfortunately he is one of our problems now -his intent is there but his distribution is appalling

 

[BlueTongue]

I get we have had some shockers. Williams and McGovern are two that come to mind instantly.

We have also not given up much for the likes of Newman, Hewitt and Acres.

We seem to stuff up the big name acquisition and pluck unknowns for later picks.

That's kinda my point. Don't target the big names and stick with those who we know will fill a specific role.
Hewett another beauty.

 

[carlton_99]

The way we set up in the midfield for me is our biggest area of concern. Our midfielders all get sucked into the contest trying to hunt the ball. If we don't win it opposition midfielders have us outnumbered on the outside and they get an easy exit from stoppage. This is what Sidebottom did to us time and time again on Thursday night. If we win the ball we are still in trouble because all of our midfielders are within 3 metres of each other. We have nobody spreading from the contest to the outside to get a handball receive and give us a better chance of a clean inside 50 entry. Instead, it's a hurried kick under pressure.

The solution to this is to adjust Cerra and Walsh's current roles in the midfield. We do not need them to be contested/inside-heavy midfielders. Their strength is their spread from the contest and we need to use this to our advantage. Cripps/Hewett can more than hold their own on the inside. We need the like of Cerra and Walsh to be more outside which will give us cleaner entries inside 50. Elijah Hollands is another who I would like to see get some stoppage time when he is back who will also excel in this area. Plus he is a great kick inside 50 - will be a big inclusion.

Another thing I want to see improvement in is movement ahead of the ball. So many times I see us have the ball across HB and there is zero movement ahead of the ball. Same thing with our forwards when the ball is about to be delivered inside 50. We need players creating space for each other especially inside 50. This is where I think Harry/Charlie/Kemp can work well because they can create decoy leads to free each other up.

Lastly, we need to move away from the 4 talls. Weitering and Silvagni have been great this season. Pick one of Young/McGovern/Haynes as a third and that's it. Otherwise we are far too slow and it hurts our ball movement from D50. McGovern probably best suits as the third option but he is not playing well at all. Maybe Young is the pick and JSOS can play a bit more of that intercepting role and use his kicking more to our advantage.

I genuinely think this season is recoverable but we need to fix up these areas.

This is an example of what I am talking about above. Three Carlton players all trying to tackle Daicos and win the ball. Sidebottom is on the outside alone. Cameron is goal side of Cripps. And I can't quite see who their other mid is there but they are pushing Cerra into the contest. If we get the ball off Daicos we have nobody on the outside to spread and give us a clean entry inside 50 so it leads to a hurried kick under pressure. If Daicos holds on to it he has an easy handpass to Sidebottom who then can spread and we have no one near him. Sidebottom spammed this exact move about 10 times in the game.

And this really shouldn't be hard to fix for our midfield coach. We cannot have Cerra and Walsh being inside-heavy contested midfielders like Cripps/Hewett. Let them spread from the contest and gives us options on the outside if we win it and if we don't they can put delay on the ball going inside 50.

 

[kreuze_missile]

30% Coaching/Gamplan - The worst coaching group in the business, bar none. Our assistant coaches should have been cleaned out at the end of 2023, but a late season run and soft CEO that values stability saved many jobs.

30% List Management - Too many players are overpaid, list profile is very top heavy with limited depth, free agency signings have mostly underperformed, zero developing KPP prospects, seemingly can't develop young talent.

20% HP/Rehab - Lot of soft tissue. Can't run out games. Same blokes getting injured over and over. Walsh and Curnow completely mismanaged by club doctors.

20% Player Commitment - Look great when it's going out way. Disappear when things get tough. Effort rarely sustained for four quarters.

 

[Wickzki]

Even though 9 of the last 10 premiership winning rucks were just okay...

Others are living in a fantasy land that TDK matters

If this was the case the other bidders - there's allegedly six of them who fancy themselves a chance - wouldn't be trying to zero in on him with the Saints monster offer.

St. Kilda and Tom's agent have played the media game well.

The dark horse continues to be (as far as I know) the team coached by a ruck, who already have a highly paid ruck on their list, and are consistently playing deep into September.

 

[MileHigh]

 

[MileHigh]

This our problem. We lack this. And our coach has it but he would rather wrap players in big warm hugs that make them run through brick walls. Weak between the ears. All the talent is there. When even Sam Walsh won't take a mark with a Collingwood player running back with the flight having more courage than him, there is massive problems.

 

[MileHigh]

I want 22 players doing this!!

 

[MileHigh]

 

[Blue_Fusion]

If this was the case the other bidders - there's allegedly six of them who fancy themselves a chance - wouldn't be trying to zero in on him with the Saints monster offer.

St. Kilda and Tom's agent have played the media game well.

The dark horse continues to be (as far as I know) the team coached by a ruck, who already have a highly paid ruck on their list, and are consistently playing deep into September.

Is that the team that keeps getting thumped in grand finals?

 

[jd2010]

If this was the case the other bidders - there's allegedly six of them who fancy themselves a chance - wouldn't be trying to zero in on him with the Saints monster offer.

St. Kilda and Tom's agent have played the media game well.

The dark horse continues to be (as far as I know) the team coached by a ruck, who already have a highly paid ruck on their list, and are consistently playing deep into September.

SOS could be silly enough or arrogant enough to offer that sort of money to a ruck he once drafted.

Or they're baiting us to offer a good amount for Tom to stay. His manager is fielding offers which drives our offer up, those offers from other clubs could be bluffs thay they don't actually want to happen.

Sydney have an expensive ruck but aren't paying his full salary so it's not a like for like example.

As evidenced by 9/10 last GF winning rucks, spending double the afl average on a ruck is a waste of time. And you could argue with Melbournes drop off and the circumstances of their seasons win, that there's an * next to the 1 outlier across the 10 seasons of data.

Having that much salary cap tied up in a position where you can get by with a 6 out of 10 leaves holes in your list elsewhere. For Melbourne it's 2x KPF. If we give that much up it's 1x very good not elite KPD 1x elite-very good Small Fwd.

Even more so after the Jagga trade, I hope there's 1m offers in for Tom. And I hope we walk away with a Band 1 compensation pick, to fall 1 spot after the pick we've given to the Hawks.

 

[Kernafides]

Im sorry I just don't see this taxing bang and crash team. It's not like we have 18 Byron picketts running around. No team would fear us or think we're tough. We don't stick tackles, we aren't a good stoppage team, we can't keep the ball in our f50 etc. We are slow, poorly skilled and persist in kicking to contests which just opens us up to the aforementioned weaknesses

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Bartell (paraphrasing): when the game naturally opens up in second halves, teams have better outside run than us. They "work us out" by knowing they just need to match us best they can in the first half when our inside game is stronger.

 

[goreds]

I think people have forgotten how hard at the ball JM was, the smack he put on Himmelberg in the final round last year I can still hear, and believe me Harry can probably still feel it!! Haven't got anyone in the forward line that comes close to his hits anymore. Maybe Moir with some more weight, there is no mongrel in this crew, too many 'nice boys'.

Mentally fragile boys...

 

[ETET]

In answer to the threads question.

On Field Leadership - Cripps, Weitering, Walsh, Cerra, Saad, Charlie, H..etc.. Not one of them holds team mates accountable on field.

I thought Newman going down was nothing, now it seems he was the only one who held teammates accountable on field.

I never see directive feedback in real time, all I see are hand slaps as team mates jog past.

 

[Blue since 72]

With 4 games under the belt all lost the same way and plenty of footage from the media I've adjusted my thinking somewhat.

As far as I'm concerned it's not fitness and it's not game plan it's selection, some positional decisions and the rest on the players shoulders in terms of consistently staying on task for the entire game, decision making and execution.
Too many players collapsing into the contest which I think stems from a lack of confidence in your team mate to win the ball, the old "i've got to go get it myself" mentality thereby giving us no outside run off the contest.

Saad: serial offender defensively but until we have a viable replacement probably needs to stay. Hey Saady it's simple mate when Carlton don't have the ball stick to your man don't try and read the play you're no good at it.
Young: Out once Harry comes back
Gov: Out on form bring in Carroll
Acres: on disposal alone out but who comes in? two poor kicks in L Campo and /or Binns
Ollie: to half forward or back to the Wing (would prefer a look at half forward)
Durdin: in, can he play mid rotations? is a good kick and has pace
Moir: have no idea where this guy is at. Don't think he should be judged on Thursday night's debacle but will defer to others saying he is not fit enough. If not out then
White: give him a block of games. Once again Thursday was no game to judge him on.
Walsh: why not try him outside for a bit.
Silvagni: Stay back thanks

Need a lot more from Cerra, Fog and Mots, more games into Lord. Hopefully Charlie is on an upward trend.

Harry and E Hols in as soon as it is doable.

 

[Y Goat]

With 4 games under the belt all lost the same way and plenty of footage from the media I've adjusted my thinking somewhat.

As far as I'm concerned it's not fitness and it's not game plan it's selection, some positional and the rest on the players shoulders in terms of consistently staying on task for the entire game, decision making and execution.

Saad: serial offender defensively but until we have a viable replacement probably needs to stay. Hey Saady it's simple mate when Carlton don't have the ball stick to your man don't try and read the play you're no good at it.
Young: Out once Harry comes back
Gov: Out on form bring in Carroll
Acres: on disposal alone out but who comes in? two poor kicks in L Campo and /or Binns
Ollie: to half forward or back to the Wing (would prefer a look at half forward)
Durdin: in, can he play mid rotations? is a good kick and has pace
Moir: have no idea where this guy is at. Don't think he should be judged on Thursday night's debacle but will defer to others saying he is not fit enough. If not out then
White: give him a block of games. Once again Thursday was no game to judge him on.
Walsh: why not try him outside for a bit.
Silvagni: Stay back thanks

Need a lot more from Cerra, Fog and Mots, more games into Lord. Hopefully Charlie is on an upward trend.

Harry and E Hols in as soon as it is doable.

Yep well said, I 2nd this

 

[Blue since 72]

View attachment 2274612

This is an example of what I am talking about above. Three Carlton players all trying to tackle Daicos and win the ball. Sidebottom is on the outside alone. Cameron is goal side of Cripps. And I can't quite see who their other mid is there but they are pushing Cerra into the contest. If we get the ball off Daicos we have nobody on the outside to spread and give us a clean entry inside 50 so it leads to a hurried kick under pressure. If Daicos holds on to it he has an easy handpass to Sidebottom who then can spread and we have no one near him. Sidebottom spammed this exact move about 10 times in the game.

And this really shouldn't be hard to fix for our midfield coach. We cannot have Cerra and Walsh being inside-heavy contested midfielders like Cripps/Hewett. Let them spread from the contest and gives us options on the outside if we win it and if we don't they can put delay on the ball going inside 50.

100%.

George and Crippa and even TDK will win the ball for you more often than not, stay off the contest for the hand ball receive and go.

As I said in another post "numbers to the ball" doesn't mean everyone try and win the ball, it's junior footy and these guys need to be way better.

 

[agro]

Bartell (paraphrasing): when the game naturally opens up in second halves, teams have better outside run than us. They "work us out" by knowing they just need to match us best they can in the first half when our inside game is stronger.

Not buying this - our so called band of “Oxygen Brothers”

• Walsh
• Cottrell
• Hollands
• Acres

Should be providing ample outside run.