What are the question marks over your team in 2022?

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Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
3,789
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Like, on the very bottom?

Sometimes you need to take a step back to go 2 steps forward. I hope for your sake Mitchell doesn’t roll out with a midfield mainly consisting of Mitchell, O’meara, Wingard, McEvoy. You will probably finish higher than North, but you will be further away from a premiership.


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Apr 19, 2006
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Sometimes you need to take a step back to go 2 steps forward. I hope for your sake Mitchell doesn’t roll out with a midfield mainly consisting of Mitchell, O’meara, Wingard, McEvoy. You will probably finish higher than North, but you will be further away from a premiership.


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Yes yes, I am well aware that you guys have wholeheartedly embraced Melbournes years shitfullness as some sort of checkpoint for premiership surety, and convinced yourself that actually winning games of football is no good for a rebuilding side. 😂
 

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Sphynx

Premiership Player
Jul 10, 2011
3,422
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North Melbourne
Rofl, i could and will go on.

I'd have Newcombe there think he's super talented and came straight in with no pre season, Bramble showed plenty on a wing, Downie was a 2nd rounder (pretty sure) as a wing option, with MacDonald and Butler also from this draft with Ward. Also have 200cm Nash when he has been a mid has been very good, Maginness who looks like he's ready to explode with his best pre season by far, some of the explosive training he's done to compliment his elite running to go with his contested game, only real issue for him has been his using his running for good, like getting to find the ball more on the outside.

There's some talent in Seamus who is a forward/mid aswell as Ned Long who we got in the Rookie draft who at his size is built like a 25 year old prime midfielder like Cripps already. His running capacity is also very good and has some talent.

Is this just your midfield group?

As Jiath is Hawthorns best young player, by some distance imo.

4 of those listed were drafted a few weeks ago, 1 of which was passed over 60 times, the other was drafted 6 months ago in the MSD.....

Not as if fans are crying from the rooftops in here regarding JHF, Goater and Curtis......
 
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Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
3,789
AFL Club
North Melbourne
We havent been committed to a rebuild for as long as north (this isnt a shot), would be normal then to not have our best players being young yet most of our best/most promising from last year would be 22 and under (Jiath, Kosi, Worpel, Moore, Brockman, Newcombe, Day,DGB) where you hope they come on and become those pillars

Hard to make sense of that to be honest.

‘We haven’t been committed to a rebuild for as long as North.’ This is basically all I have been trying to say. I think we’re at least 2 years ahead of you. We have brought in a lot of talent and basically culled our list back to where it needs to be. I think Hawthorn need a lot more talent and your list needs to be stripped back. A shame you couldn’t offload any mature players last trade period when you attempted to. Mitchell was desperate to bring in more high end picks and rightly so.


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Stabby McGee

All Australian
Jul 30, 2011
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Yes yes, I am well aware that you guys have wholeheartedly embraced Melbournes years shitfullness as some sort of checkpoint for premiership surety, and convinced yourself that actually winning games of football is no good for a rebuilding side. 😂
Hey. Keep us out of your cripple fight.
 

Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
3,789
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Yes yes, I am well aware that you guys have wholeheartedly embraced Melbournes years shitfullness as some sort of checkpoint for premiership surety, and convinced yourself that actually winning games of football is no good for a rebuilding side.

We beat you.


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Dominic03

Club Legend
Oct 28, 2020
1,970
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AFL Club
Hawthorn
Is this just your midfield group?

As Jiath is Hawthorns best young player, by some distance imo.

4 of those listed were drafted a few weeks ago, 1 of which was passed over 60 times, the other was drafted 6 months ago in the MSD.....

Not as if fans are crying from the rooftops in here regarding JHF, Goater and Curtis......
Yeah mate just some mids.
 

BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
1,475
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Hard to make sense of that to be honest.

‘We haven’t been committed to a rebuild for as long as North.’ This is basically all I have been trying to say. I think we’re at least 2 years ahead of you. We have brought in a lot of talent and basically culled our list back to where it needs to be. I think Hawthorn need a lot more talent and your list needs to be stripped back. A shame you couldn’t offload any mature players last trade period when you attempted to. Mitchell was desperate to bring in more high end picks and rightly so.


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Unsure how it dosent make sense, you are ahead of us in a rebuild, because you have been doing it for longer

Again not a shot, but you didnt really have the cattle to trade out and get picks to speed it along, thats ok, hence the longer rebuild time

Its not like it was a cull for picks, you just delisted a bunch (ok to do, just not going to get anything in return)

We tried to obviously, didnt take, may try again next year (wont be worth as much, but the more picks, the better chance you have)
 

BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
1,475
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Is this just your midfield group?

As Jiath is Hawthorns best young player, by some distance imo.

4 of those listed were drafted a few weeks ago, 1 of which was passed over 60 times, the other was drafted 6 months ago in the MSD.....

Not as if fans are crying from the rooftops in here regarding JHF, Goater and Curtis......

Jiath is very good, but by some distance?, early to say, especially when Day is 'fingers crossed" fit this season (has the most potential alongside CJ IMO)

Im not sure saying

4 of those listed were drafted a few weeks ago, 1 of which was passed over 60 times, the other was drafted 6 months ago in the MSD.....

is some form of shot?

Are we not able to count drafted players in potential future midfields?

And why is being drafted in the MSD a negative thing?, is it negative towards Edwards then?

Fans aren't crying from the rooftops about JHF?

North have labelled him the messiah (fair enough to)
 

Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
3,789
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Unsure how it dosent make sense, you are ahead of us in a rebuild, because you have been doing it for longer

Again not a shot, but you didnt really have the cattle to trade out and get picks to speed it along, thats ok, hence the longer rebuild time

Its not like it was a cull for picks, you just delisted a bunch (ok to do, just not going to get anything in return)

We tried to obviously, didnt take, may try again next year (wont be worth as much, but the more picks, the better chance you have)

We are in agreement with North being ahead in our rebuild. No need to back over it again.

You had no takers for any of your cattle, so not sure how you plan to speed the rebuild along or come to the conclusion that you have players with higher value than North. They will all be another year older in 12 months as well, which only lowers their value.

We did get a second round pick for Higgins and offers for Goldstein who we preferred to keep.


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BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
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We are in agreement with North being ahead in our rebuild. No need to back over it again.

You had no takers for any of your cattle, so not sure how you plan to speed the rebuild along or come to the conclusion that you have players with higher value than North. They will all be another year older in 12 months as well, which only lowers their value.

We did get a second round pick for Higgins and offers for Goldstein who we preferred to keep.


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Did have takers (GWS offered 13 for Bruest or Wingard, plus a pick swap) but that neither here nor there

If you read what i wrote again, you would see that I said they wouldn't be worth as much this year

If you dont think a 28 year old Wingard, Bruest or Mitchell is more value then Shaun Higgins @ 32 (comparing similar stages of rebuild), I cant help you
 

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AstroboyUK

Club Legend
Apr 25, 2008
1,727
2,633
London / Delhi
AFL Club
Richmond
Richmond:
1. Speed. Many of our personal are older (slower) and overall we have evolved to a different balance across the field (collectively slower)
2. Game Plan/style. Our game plan came unstuck due to any combination of a)the stand rule b) being collectively slower c) unsuccessful changes to the game plan d) loss of confidence e) key personal for executing said game plan being out of form (eg Lynch) or injured (eg Balta, e) collective loss of team hunger to execute the game plan. f) other teams adapting better and we being comparatively slow on the park

We havent changed our personnel heavily, so its going to be the same players going around again: so that same combination of of a,b,c,d,e ,f - but especially on the issue of SPEED that we will be vulnerable.

This worries me. I am worried. I think about it a lot and are worried. My concern is such that I am communicating less and spending a lot of time on computer games to try a numb the worry. But its not working. Im still worried.
 

Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
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AFL Club
North Melbourne
Did have takers (GWS offered 13 for Bruest or Wingard, plus a pick swap) but that neither here nor there

If you read what i wrote again, you would see that I said they wouldn't be worth as much this year

If you dont think a 28 year old Wingard, Bruest or Mitchell is more value then Shaun Higgins @ 32 (comparing similar stages of rebuild), I cant help you

I never said Higgins was worth more than anyone. I was just pointing out that we added a second round pick (Lazzaro) to help accelerate our rebuild. Hawthorn have done next to nothing, if anything to enhance their draft hand. Mitchell was even on the phone trying to get some players out the door for picks.

Provide a link where GWS were offering pick 13? I can’t imagine them offering pick 13 for Breust who is 31. At the end of the day you were desperate for more picks and nothing came your way.


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HairyO

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 13, 2015
28,391
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Hawthorn
Ive checked this out when they all stand in the 1/4 time huddles etc…Seems to me Frost and Scrim are our tallest defenders. Both are around 195. Often the heights we get on the stats are from their draft year and boys still grow between 18 and 22. Sic is around 191/192. CJ similar. Hartigan and DGB slightly shorter than Frost/Scrim.

Given most clubs have 200cm fwds it means our rucks are always dropping back. Need a Harris Andrews type for mine.


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DGB is going to be a great defender but you are right.
We need someone who can play one on one on the super tall, agile forwards. Gibbo was truly elite once we got Lake.

But really we need a functioning midfield which can just play consistently every week. The other parts will fall in to line.
 

BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
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I never said Higgins was worth more than anyone. I was just pointing out that we added a second round pick (Lazzaro) to help accelerate our rebuild. Hawthorn have done next to nothing, if anything to enhance their draft hand. Mitchell was even on the phone trying to get some players out the door for picks.

Provide a link where GWS were offering pick 13? I can’t imagine them offering pick 13 for Breust who is 31. At the end of the day you were desperate for more picks and nothing came your way.


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As i said

Involved Bruest and 24 for 13

And since you love links, show me a link showing that Sam Mitchell was calling teams trying to get rid of players?

And not some hyperbolic media beatup from Jon Ralph or Sam Edmund and co.
 

VinnieB

Team Captain
Oct 28, 2021
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484
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As i said

Involved Bruest and 24 for 13

And since you love links, show me a link showing that Sam Mitchell was calling teams trying to get rid of players?

And not some hyperbolic media beatup from Jon Ralph or Sam Edmund and co.
weren't the Hawks also offering to pay Bruest's salary as well (or at least a majority of it)? So Bruest + 24 (and a large chunk of his salary paid for) for pick 13 would have been a good deal for GWS, particularly when the discussion commenced when Bobby Hill was wanting to go to Essendon.
 

Obeanie1

Brownlow Medallist
Jul 26, 2007
25,325
22,006
Darwin
AFL Club
West Coast
Hard to make sense of that to be honest.

‘We haven’t been committed to a rebuild for as long as North.’ This is basically all I have been trying to say. I think we’re at least 2 years ahead of you. We have brought in a lot of talent and basically culled our list back to where it needs to be. I think Hawthorn need a lot more talent and your list needs to be stripped back. A shame you couldn’t offload any mature players last trade period when you attempted to. Mitchell was desperate to bring in more high end picks and rightly so.


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Don't bother arguing with them mate.

Hawks fans are still in denial regarding the historic averages of where you draft the majority of best 22 players. They don't care someone was drafted in the 3rd or 4tdh round, MSD or rookie draft. In their eye (Not eyes) every kid wearing the poo and pea strip are emerging champions.

They will work it out eventually.

What picks were Hodge, Roughead and Franklin again?

And yes we all know Sam Mitchell was in the 40's. Every team nails one every so often.
 

BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
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Historic Averages say best 22 players are majority of the time top 30 picks. yes

But because players arn't, we shouldn't have hope for them to be good players?

Nothing wrong with being positive about players we have, we heard how good Brander was last season

Yes their should be a balanced view, especially in open forums

All club supporters over value players, its part of the reason people enjoy it when they come good
 

Nutjob

Club Legend
Oct 23, 2014
2,053
3,789
AFL Club
North Melbourne

As i said

Involved Bruest and 24 for 13

And since you love links, show me a link showing that Sam Mitchell was calling teams trying to get rid of players?

And not some hyperbolic media beatup from Jon Ralph or Sam Edmund and co.

The above trade is a pick upgrade that values Breust at pick 41. This isn’t a great return for a player who apparently has high value. I would rather the pick for Higgins then do that deal.

Go read the email your president sent to all your members. Pretty obvious you were having a fire sale and no one turned up.




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BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
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The above trade is a pick upgrade that values Breust at pick 41. This isn’t a great return for a player who apparently has high value. I would rather the pick for Higgins then do that deal.

Go read the email your president sent to all your members. Pretty obvious you were having a fire sale and no one turned up.




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Would have ended with pick 13, not 41, so saying he was Valued at 41 means nothing, we wanted to upgrade a pick, but it didnt go

I have, and they did, we just didnt like the offers, wasnt a fire sale, we would have traded the players if that was the case
 
Apr 19, 2006
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Don't bother arguing with them mate.

Hawks fans are still in denial regarding the historic averages of where you draft the majority of best 22 players. They don't care someone was drafted in the 3rd or 4tdh round, MSD or rookie draft. In their eye (Not eyes) every kid wearing the poo and pea strip are emerging champions.

They will work it out eventually.

What picks were Hodge, Roughead and Franklin again?

And yes we all know Sam Mitchell was in the 40's. Every team nails one every so often.
Hawks fans arent in denial at all, we are just generally pretty happy with how a lot of our younger players are looking despite not being top 10 picks.

It’s not outrageous to say that Scrimshaw, Worpel, Jiath, Bramble, Kosi, Lewis, Newcombe, Brockman, Reeves, Moore etc All look like they have bright futures at AFL level, on top of Day, DGB and Ward who have been drafted early.

Apparently people like yourself take offense at Hawks fans being quite content with how the list is tracking.
 

Sphynx

Premiership Player
Jul 10, 2011
3,422
9,010
AFL Club
North Melbourne
Jiath is very good, but by some distance?, early to say, especially when Day is 'fingers crossed" fit this season (has the most potential alongside CJ IMO)

Im not sure saying

4 of those listed were drafted a few weeks ago, 1 of which was passed over 60 times, the other was drafted 6 months ago in the MSD.....

is some form of shot?

Are we not able to count drafted players in potential future midfields?

And why is being drafted in the MSD a negative thing?, is it negative towards Edwards then?

Fans aren't crying from the rooftops about JHF?

North have labelled him the messiah (fair enough to)

Day has been promising, but Jiath did it over an entire year and at a higher level imo.

Is it some sort of shot? No, it's reality. Most people don't come unloading players from a few weeks ago into these discussions until we have seen them play, JHF included. I don't think anyone has really dropped him into the conversation here, with good reason, lets see how they go first.
 

BIGHAWK23

Team Captain
Nov 7, 2019
523
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Hawthorn
Day has been promising, but Jiath did it over an entire year and at a higher level imo.

Is it some sort of shot? No, it's reality. Most people don't come unloading players from a few weeks ago into these discussions until we have seen them play, JHF included. I don't think anyone has really dropped him into the conversation here, with good reason, lets see how they go first.
Many North Fans have used players like, Edwards, Combden to validate their points in here

Zero point using recent draft picks as points of reason, but shouldnt be discounted
 

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