What are the question marks over your team in 2022?

[Strapping Young Lad]

Your period of success ended long ago. Your trading and lack of drafting has been like watching a car crash. Everyone could see it coming except Hawthorn.

Hawthorn didn’t get to build on their threepeat, through major injuries, a cancer battle and early retirements of its stars.

North could only dream of a “car crash” like that.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You said only a few posts back that you pick best available with a top 5 pick and now you’re saying we should have picked for needs. Which is it? We clearly thought Phillips was best available and the club has stated this themselves.

I can’t remember many at all who had DGB top 2(we had the second live pick). Many on draft night thought we were taking Hollands and he didn’t go until pick 7.

We are fully stocked for tall forwards.

Larkey
Edwards
Comben
CCJ

That’s 4 developing tall forwards. How many do we need?

We do need another tall back no doubt, but using a top pick for needs wasn’t an option. Tall backs are also easier to find later in the draft or via trade/FA.


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Its well known that Sydney had DGB 2 behind McDonald in the draft

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

You said only a few posts back that you pick best available with a top 5 pick and now you’re saying we should have picked for needs. Which is it? We clearly thought Phillips was best available and the club has stated this themselves.

I can’t remember many at all who had DGB top 2(we had the second live pick). Many on draft night thought we were taking Hollands and he didn’t go until pick 7.

We are fully stocked for tall forwards.

Larkey
Edwards
Comben
CCJ

That’s 4 developing tall forwards. How many do we need?

We do need another tall back no doubt, but using a top pick for needs wasn’t an option. Tall backs are also easier to find later in the draft or via trade/FA.


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No, I'm saying you should have picked best available, and that you also needed talls. Phillips didn't look to be either.

You're saying Phillips was best available, but a good tall beats a good small every day of the week. Particularly when no one had seen Phillips play all year and Logan and Denver were lighting it up in WA. I'm not saying it was wrong, but it was very odd, and I'm not on my pat malone in thinking that.

In 2020, of those you've listed you had Larkey on the list and Comben who was nursing stress fractures. That was it.

 

[Proper Gander]

Isolation requirements will play a big part in team fortunes this year I should think

 

[Noidnadroj]

I never said we had the best midfielder, I’m not sure why we’re discussing solely 1 player. Pretty clear we have a better midfield now and for the future.

Cunnington
Simpkin
Anderson
Greenwood
LDU
Thomas
Stephenson
Powell
Phillips
Lazarro
Horne- Francis
Goater

There are 8 first round picks on that list. We have invested heavily in our midfield for 6-7 years, which Hawthorn clearly haven’t.

Greenwood will fill a role in a talented developing midfield.

Give me your list of mids and don’t list flankers who have spent bugger all time in the midfield.


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Let me start by saying North is my most hated team behind Carlton. So it pains me to say that unless they do something drastically wrong, they should have clearly the best midfield in the competition in 2-years time…. and I’m removing Cunnington from that midfield mix from 2024 onwards.

LDU - showing great signs of becoming A-grade if not elite.
Simpkin - already B+ with some upside.
Thomas - not a pure mid but showing development to be elite.
JHF - sky’s the limit.
Philips - admittedly a slow starter but a top-3 pick so likely to be very good.
Powell - looks good already
Anderson - better than average and great depth
Stephenson - x-factor and great option to inject into midfield
Goater - who knows…but high draft pick
Greenwood - clearance beast

Greenwood is the oldest at 29yo (30 in March) Anderson is next at 27yo.

Then it’s Simpkin at 23yo.

So if North don’t have the comp’s best midfield from 2024 onwards I’ll be very surprised.




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[Trav 20]

Let me start by saying North is my most hated team behind Carlton. So it pains me to say that unless they do something drastically wrong, they should have clearly the best midfield in the competition in 2-years time…. and I’m removing Cunnington from that midfield mix from 2024 onwards.

LDU - showing great signs of becoming A-grade if not elite.
Simpkin - already B+ with some upside.
Thomas - not a pure mid but showing development to be elite.
JHF - sky’s the limit.
Philips - admittedly a slow starter but a top-3 pick so likely to be very good.
Powell - looks good already
Anderson - better than average and great depth
Stephenson - x-factor and great option to inject into midfield
Goater - who knows…but high draft pick
Greenwood - clearance beast

Greenwood is the oldest at 29yo (30 in March) Anderson is next at 27yo.

Then it’s Simpkin at 23yo.

So if North don’t have the comp’s best midfield from 2024 onwards I’ll be very surprised.




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2021 taught us that the deepest midfield doesn't equate to the ''best''.

 

[Noidnadroj]

Kinda funny that you wrote "don’t list flankers who have spent bugger all time in the midfield", then add Stephenson and Phillips who spent bugger all time in the midfield, and two 18yr olds who've yet to play a game at all.


Here's Hawthorn's that have actually played midfield at AFL level.

Tom Mitchell
Jaeger O’Meara
James Worpel
Chad Wingard
Liam Shiels
Harry Morrison
Conor Nash
Daniel Howe
Tom Phillips
Jai Newcombe
Connor Downie
Finn Maginness


And here's those yet to debut.

Josh Ward
Seamus Mitchell
Sam Butler
Connor MacDonald
Ned Long

I hate to say it, but in 2-3 years post Mitchell/O’Meara/Wingard/Shiels the Hawks midfield looks very, very light on for quality. Even Worpel seems to have taken 2-steps backwards since his breakout season.

You desperately need to hope Ward, Butler and MacDonald are high quality or the Hawks midfield will be miles behind other developing teams.


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[BIGHAWK23]

I hate to say it, but in 2-3 years post Mitchell/O’Meara/Wingard/Shiels the Hawks midfield looks very, very light on for quality. Even Worpel seems to have taken 2-steps backwards since his breakout season.

You desperately need to hope Ward, Butler and MacDonald are high quality or the Hawks midfield will be miles behind other developing teams.


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I agree with this

The hope is that if there is more of a balance in the midfield, (less of a reliance on Mitchell), will aid Worpel to get back up to his former level

We need a lot to go right for a quick assent, but with smart drafting and good development, we should be in a much better position in 18-24 months

Things take time

 

[Nutjob]

Its well known that Sydney had DGB 2 behind McDonald in the draft

Wow 1 club, it really was an ‘odd’ decision.


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[BIGHAWK23]

Wow 1 club, it really was an ‘odd’ decision.


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We know that Phillips wasn't ranked top 5 by most clubs

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

I hate to say it, but in 2-3 years post Mitchell/O’Meara/Wingard/Shiels the Hawks midfield looks very, very light on for quality. Even Worpel seems to have taken 2-steps backwards since his breakout season.

You desperately need to hope Ward, Butler and MacDonald are high quality or the Hawks midfield will be miles behind other developing teams.


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Yeah, you've already posted something similar, but we'll also draft over the next 2-3 years, and if Maginness, Day and Newcombe come on we'll be ok.

Having Mitchell, O'meara, Worpel and Wingard over the next 3+ years alongside these guys isn't the problem people make it out to be, but getting the midfield to be more balanced and connected will be one of Mitchell's coaching team's big focuses.

 

[Nutjob]

No, I'm saying you should have picked best available, and that you also needed talls. Phillips didn't look to be either.

You're saying Phillips was best available, but a good tall beats a good small every day of the week. Particularly when no one had seen Phillips play all year and Logan and Denver were lighting it up in WA. I'm not saying it was wrong, but it was very odd, and I'm not on my pat malone in thinking that.

In 2020, of those you've listed you had Larkey on the list and Comben who was nursing stress fractures. That was it.

We picked best available plain and simple there’s no two ways about it. Yes we needed talls, but we picked the player we thought will be the best and I have full confidence that will be the case.

Who cares who we had at the time. Right now we have 4 developing tall forwards, so either way your point is irrelevant now as we have filled that hole.


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[Nutjob]

We know that Phillips wasn't ranked top 5 by most clubs

No we don’t. Everyone thought Hollands was a lock to go top 4. He went pick 7.


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[Strapping Young Lad]

Who cares who we had at the time. Right now we have 4 developing tall forwards, so either way your point is irrelevant now as we have filled that hole.


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You brought that list of players to the conversation like they were some sort of reason for not drafting tall, now you're saying 'who cares who we had at the time of the draft'. Amusing.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

No we don’t. Everyone thought Hollands was a lock to go top 4. He went pick 7.


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No we do, Phillips was widely tipped to go to Gold Coast with Rowell and Anderson

He was coming of an ACL, wasnt close to a lock top 4

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

No we don’t. Everyone thought Hollands was a lock to go top 4. He went pick 7.


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He went 7 because North took Phillips early, which subsequently pushed a bunch of players back.

 

[Nutjob]

You brought that list of players to the conversation like they were some sort of reason for not drafting tall, now you're saying 'who cares who we had at the time of the draft'. Amusing.

I’m saying we picked best available and then addressed our tall forward in an alternative way. You don’t assess a rebuild by one singular pick, you assess the whole build.


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[Nutjob]

No we do, Phillips was widely tipped to go to Gold Coast with Rowell and Anderson

He was coming of an ACL, wasnt close to a lock top 4

Cal Twomey is the most in the know draft expect. He is in regular contact with clubs and managers. His top 10 mocks are generally pretty accurate. That draft was incredibly difficult to pick the top 10 after no football in Victoria. A lot of different clubs top 10 would have looked vastly different. Most mocks including Twomey had us taking Hollands with our pick.


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[Nutjob]

He went 7 because North took Phillips early, which subsequently pushed a bunch of players back.

It goes to show every clubs draft order is different though doesn’t it?


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[Strapping Young Lad]

I’m saying we picked best available and then addressed our tall forward in an alternative way. You don’t assess a rebuild by one singular pick, you assess the whole build.


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I agree, but in December of 2020 when the draft was held, you had Larkey and an injured Comben on the list, and you weren't to know that you'd have Pick 1 in the mid season draft, nor did you know who would be there at that pick when you took Phillips at 3. So your original point of "we have 4 talls on the list NOW" is pretty much redundant to the discussion about who you took in 2020.

Not saying it's wrong, or that he won't be any good, but North had two talls staring them in the face, and they went for a small no one had seen play for 12 months.

Rightly or wrongly, there's a lot of pressure on Phillips, because North took him before the two WA talls.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It goes to show every clubs draft order is different though doesn’t it?


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For sure they are. In 2001 a couple of clubs said they'd have taken Polak at Pick 1.

 

[Sphynx]

We know that Phillips wasn't ranked top 5 by most clubs

You have completely made that up.

 

[BIGHAWK23]

You have completely made that up.

Well I haven't
The top 5 players on talent rated in that draft was

JUH
Mcdonald
Thilthorpe
DGB
Hollands

Then was a toss up

Campell
Phillips
Bruhn
Cox
Reid

So thanks for playing

 

[Sphynx]

Well I haven't
The top 5 players on talent rated in that draft was

JUH
Mcdonald
Thilthorpe
DGB
Hollands

Then was a toss up

Campell
Phillips
Bruhn
Cox
Reid

So thanks for playing

Again, you have made that up.

North had him at #3. They had Thilthorpe at #1 and JUH #2

KM’s thread and 15 copies of it isn’t the AFL recruiting circle for what it’s worth…

 

[juss]

Maybe Dees only won the flag because every other coach in the AFL was too busy hunting Richmond? That makes sense, Richmond were the best team in the AFL I think

I've resubscribed to your content.