What Carlton needs

[wdgann]

When you look at the modern game and the good teams, the best teams have great half back flankers. I couldn't help notice during the Melbourne game that if we weren't quick at getting the ball out of defence, Melbourne would flood and we would chip the ball around and not get anywhere

I note as well that the Carlton of 1995 had players like Ang and Hanna that would run through the lines and kick up to 5 girls per game from the half back flank. Look at Geelong with Woginski and Scarlett from deeper in defence. McLeod at Adelaide does it and Port has a number of guys that do it

WE desparately need a Woginski that can take the ball and run through lines and deliver onto the chest of Fevola et al. Aside from Walker (who can't really kick on the run), we don't have a player with the necessary strength

This is our key deficiency!

 

[Faz 2000]

Ang and Hanna that would run through the lines and kick up to 5 girls per game

Ultimately it was Hanna's habit of kicking women that led to him ending his football career and concentrating on the cafe business.

I think between Scotland, Walker and Houlihan we have guys who are capable of running and delivering. Not in the McLeod class, certainly, but we have guys with "sufficient" skills to do it I think.

Perhaps the fact that 2 of those guys are injured right now is why you're seeing that gap.

 

[RoK]

When you look at the modern game and the good teams, the best teams have great half back flankers. I couldn't help notice during the Melbourne game that if we weren't quick at getting the ball out of defence, Melbourne would flood and we would chip the ball around and not get anywhere

I note as well that the Carlton of 1995 had players like Ang and Hanna that would run through the lines and kick up to 5 girls per game from the half back flank. Look at Geelong with Woginski and Scarlett from deeper in defence. McLeod at Adelaide does it and Port has a number of guys that do it

WE desparately need a Woginski that can take the ball and run through lines and deliver onto the chest of Fevola et al. Aside from Walker (who can't really kick on the run), we don't have a player with the necessary strength

This is our key deficiency!

Spot on mate but we really dont want any girls kicked,its good for the PR of the club.

 

[[ToTTi]]

When you look at the modern game and the good teams, the best teams have great half back flankers. I couldn't help notice during the Melbourne game that if we weren't quick at getting the ball out of defence, Melbourne would flood and we would chip the ball around and not get anywhere

I note as well that the Carlton of 1995 had players like Ang and Hanna that would run through the lines and kick up to 5 girls per game from the half back flank. Look at Geelong with Woginski and Scarlett from deeper in defence. McLeod at Adelaide does it and Port has a number of guys that do it

WE desparately need a Woginski that can take the ball and run through lines and deliver onto the chest of Fevola et al. Aside from Walker (who can't really kick on the run), we don't have a player with the necessary strength

This is our key deficiency!

Yeah, you are quite right, we do need another Thornton.

 

[RiCHii]

I think Carlton's defense is highly under-rated, while our foward-line is highly over-rated.

What we really need is a foward. Someone who can work with Fevola. Because i dont think Hartlett or Edwards are the right player/players to do this unfortunately.

Thoughts ?

 

[Matt72]

It seems that our team plan is to keep possesion when coming out of the backline. Even if we had quick players I doubt that running and bouncing would be considered adhering to team rules. From the Melbourne game it looked as though from centre bounces the plan is to run, bounce, kick. But when emerging from the backline it is kick, mark, stop, kick, mark, stop. I don't mind it as a way of getting players to really see the importance of possession in a team that is still learning the game.

 

[a1118374]

I think Carlton's defense is highly under-rated, while our foward-line is highly over-rated.

What we really need is a foward. Someone who can work with Fevola. Because i dont think Hartlett or Edwards are the right player/players to do this unfortunately.

Thoughts ?

hopefully hartlett can come in this week and prove he can be a threat up forward. I liked how we handled the flood. no rush

 

[Faz 2000]

I think Carlton's defense is highly under-rated, while our foward-line is highly over-rated.

What we really need is a foward. Someone who can work with Fevola. Because i dont think Hartlett or Edwards are the right player/players to do this unfortunately.

Thoughts ?

I think you're spot on.

I think Carlton's defence has been SLAMMED for the last year, but is a) coming together nicely and b) has been made to look a LOT worse by our utterly unaccountable and soft midfield. It suddenly looks OK with Jamison, Waite and Thornton the keys, Houlihan OUT of there, and the midfield pressuring the opposition all over the ground and slowing down delivery.

Likewise, our forward line has been seen as a strength, but I don't really think it is. Fevola is a star. Fact. But he's a "selfish" star. His success does not necessarily equate to team success, because he is so often the only forward option we have. Fisher is a very solid THIRD forward, and Betts is an OK small forward. What is needed is definitely a SECOND forward, preferably a big bodied CHF. Someone to be a target and hurt the opposition on the scoreboard if they get too Fev-conscious. Someone to drag the opposition's second big defender off Fisher. We also need a HFF. I realise they are (mostly) stars, but imagine how good would a Chapman, Didak, O'Keefe or even a Pettifer look in our squad? A player who can kick 3-4 if not watched closely, and can push up and contribute.

I haven't seen enough of Hartlett or Edwards to rule them out of the CHF forward gig yet, but I thought Hartlett looked likely against the Tiges.

No team (except for Geelong) has "everything" you'd want. But I definitely think the Blues would be a lot stronger with a solid CHF and a skilled HF flanker, and that we should let the defence mature with the cattle we have.

 

[out of harmes' way]

What we really need is a couple of electrifying half-forwards in the mould of a Didak, or Rioli who can kick goals. This would not only ease the pressue on Fev but also provide a lot of forward line pressure.

We also need a few more indigenous players with flair. Why haven't we recruited this this type of player in the past? Before you jump down my throat, yes I am aware we have Betts and Walker but, in my opinion we have deliberately ignored this type of talent. Look at Essendon and the Kangaroos in particular last weekend.

 

[Kramer1]

All relatively good points above...although I think one poster sold Fev a little short. When you are the best converter in the comp, and a pretty good chance from anywhere inside 60m, selfishness does not come into it. I think you'll find team orders are for Fev to back himself.

With a fit Walker, the backline of Jamieson, Thornton, Walker and Waite looks competent. We lack a constructiver HBF in the Gilbee, Shaw, McLoed role. Gilbee is perphaps more of a line runner, but the other two guys are masters at setting up the play, and thier decision making is first rate. I like both Houlihan & Scotland, and both have a place in my best 22 for Carlton, but not in this role.

Up forward...I just don't know. Edwards and Hartlett i just haven't seen enough of. I might reserve my decision until the end of the year. Maybe Fev, Fish and Hartlett could click...add in the midfield run of Judd, Gibbs. Murphy and Kruezer all popping up for a goal a game I think we might be OK

 

[RiCHii]

hopefully hartlett can come in this week and prove he can be a threat up forward. I liked how we handled the flood. no rush

I'm hoping he can make it. Things arent looking good unfortnately

 

[a1118374]

I'm hoping he can make it. Things arent looking good unfortnately

ya think? i thought this year he had been good (watching from 800km away). kicked a few goals. apart from suspension

 

[AlecDuncan]

Coping without Bannister will be the first real test for the cohesiveness of our defence. Thornton, Bower, Bannister and Waite have been combining really well. We managed to cover Walker's absence, pretty well, but now with Banno gone for a month our depth will be tested.

 

[Matt72]

What we really need is a couple of electrifying half-forwards in the mould of a Didak, or Rioli who can kick goals. This would not only ease the pressue on Fev but also provide a lot of forward line pressure.

We also need a few more indigenous players with flair. Why haven't we recruited this this type of player in the past? Before you jump down my throat, yes I am aware we have Betts and Walker but, in my opinion we have deliberately ignored this type of talent. Look at Essendon and the Kangaroos in particular last weekend.

He is indigenous?

 

[Just Kreuzing]

The reason we play the short possession/chipping style out of defence is

1) Our running ball carriers either dont possess the skill level or confidence to do so nor do we have any players with real pace combined with the necessary skill level to be successful at this.

2) We dont have a big presence or class centre half forward who demands the ball and is able to either take contested marks or just give a great contest when it is kicked to him. If we had guys streaming from defense and looking up and kicking to a Kernahan type who rarely let us down then this would bring great confidence and results!

or if we had an Earl Spalding type who could compete in the air and at ground level ferociously and create opportunities for those around him which he always done this would also make people walk taller and be more confident/effective, His ability to really bust packs open, smother, bump, tackle, chase and get up and go again and again was very much understated, he created great opportunites for ordinary players like Clape and Pearce in 1995 who had failed at other clubs.

So as to what i think Carlton needs most is a leader at CHF who can do all of those things and give the younger talented small bodied players a great focal point who they no they can rely on, I am hoping that Kreuzer could be the answer there with qualities that both Sticks and Earl had all moulded into the 1 player with continued development.

 

[AlecDuncan]

He is indigenous?

That's how he sees himself. Myself, I'm as white-as-white, but a fraction of me is aboriginal. I'm guessing he's the same.

 

[Blueboys7]

The reason we play the short possession/chipping style out of defence is

1) Our running ball carriers either dont possess the skill level or confidence to do so nor do we have any players with real pace combined with the necessary skill level to be successful at this.

2) We dont have a big presence or class centre half forward who demands the ball and is able to either take contested marks or just give a great contest when it is kicked to him. If we had guys streaming from defense and looking up and kicking to a Kernahan type who rarely let us down then this would bring great confidence and results!

or if we had an Earl Spalding type who could compete in the air and at ground level ferociously and create opportunities for those around him which he always done this would also make people walk taller and be more confident/effective, His ability to really bust packs open, smother, bump, tackle, chase and get up and go again and again was very much understated, he created great opportunites for ordinary players like Clape and Pearce in 1995 who had failed at other clubs.

So as to what i think Carlton needs most is a leader at CHF who can do all of those things and give the younger talented small bodied players a great focal point who they no they can rely on, I am hoping that Kreuzer could be the answer there with qualities that both Sticks and Earl had all moulded into the 1 player with continued development.

Did you watch that season? They looked anything but ordinary. They both had great years. Pearce never missed and clape gave us great depth and played well.

 

[wdgann]

Yeah, you are quite right, we do need another Thornton.

My point is that guys like THornton can chip it around and switch play but you will never see any our defenders burst through the lines and outrun anyone. True, scotland can run but rarely takes on the opposition

 

[wdgann]

When you look at the modern game and the good teams, the best teams have great half back flankers. I couldn't help notice during the Melbourne game that if we weren't quick at getting the ball out of defence, Melbourne would flood and we would chip the ball around and not get anywhere

I note as well that the Carlton of 1995 had players like Ang and Hanna that would run through the lines and kick up to 5 girls per game from the half back flank. Look at Geelong with Woginski and Scarlett from deeper in defence. McLeod at Adelaide does it and Port has a number of guys that do it

WE desparately need a Woginski that can take the ball and run through lines and deliver onto the chest of Fevola et al. Aside from Walker (who can't really kick on the run), we don't have a player with the necessary strength

This is our key deficiency!

maybe i was thinking of thornton when i accidentally wrote that

 

[[ToTTi]]

My point is that guys like THornton can chip it around and switch play but you will never see any our defenders burst through the lines and outrun anyone. True, scotland can run but rarely takes on the opposition

I was taking the piss. I see Bower developing into a very attacking half-back flanker, and possibly even someone like Grigg... Anyway do you really care or just wanted another anti-Thornton thread?

 

[Artie Bucco]

I wouldn't be too worried.

You need to be able to walk before you can run so to speak.

Think of Hawthorn a few years ago, they were flooding and chipping around far worse than us. Their skill just weren't there.

Now they have adapted and posses great skills and look at em fly.


Once our skills and adaption to Ratt's gameplan improves you will see Bower, Waite, Walker, Thornton perhaps Scotland all breaking through the lines off HB.

 

[Just Kreuzing]

Did you watch that season? They looked anything but ordinary. They both had great years. Pearce never missed and clape gave us great depth and played well.

Exactly my point, Clape and Pearce had great years in 95 but mark my words would of had far less impact if those bigger bodies had not been around them to create those opportunities for them. They proved they were ordinary players prior to coming to Carlton and after Kernahan and Spalding were cut down with injuries and then retirement!!! Did u WATCH?????

 

[Just Kreuzing]

My point is that guys like THornton can chip it around and switch play but you will never see any our defenders burst through the lines and outrun anyone. True, scotland can run but rarely takes on the opposition

Thats because they are under instruction to play possession tempo style football, instead of taking the game on and running and risking turnovers because of poor decision making or skill execution which is the style we cant play yet because you may well have noticed we concede 150 points last time we tried that.

 

[Blueboys7]

Did you watch that season? They looked anything but ordinary. They both had great years. Pearce never missed and clape gave us great depth and played well.

Exactly my point, Clape and Pearce had great years in 95 but mark my words would of had far less impact if those bigger bodies had not been around them to create those opportunities for them. They proved they were ordinary players prior to coming to Carlton and after Kernahan and Spalding were cut down with injuries and then retirement!!! Did u WATCH?????

We won the flag mate you need those guys that complete your team. What team doesn't have those players? As i said before they give you depth, you dont just have a team full of superstars.

 

[Damp Squarie]

I think the most important thing Carlton need is TIME.
Time to get another year of games under some of your exiting players belts and a year under Ratten will be beneficial as well.

Having said that, Im tipping you to flog the Crows this week