What if history scenarios

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chargers 09

chargers 09

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Thought It would be good to discuss some what if history scenarios ITT. I've got to get to work so I can't post anything today.
 
What if we'd been pushed back in Suvla bay that April morning and the Turks remained in control of Persia.
 

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I wonder occasional about the Chinese.

Through history they've gone through waves of looking outward (expansion) followed by pulling back from those external influences.

Once such expansion phase saw them sail an exploration/trade fleet to East Africa (and reputedly, they also reached Australia & America) before deciding that all they could want was already there at home and literally let the greatest fleet of the day rot away due to indifference.

I realise that these inward looking phases were probably an inevitable part of their culture (centralised & convinced of their own superiority and thus no need to look elsewhere), but as a 'what if', I do wonder what would have happened if they'd expanded for even 20 more years back then...Including, but not limited to the Chinese sailing around Africa to encounter Western Europe, or even if it'd happened at the same time as western expansion, and they'd 'met' around Cape Town.
 
telsor said:
I wonder occasional about the Chinese.

Through history they've gone through waves of looking outward (expansion) followed by pulling back from those external influences.

Once such expansion phase saw them sail an exploration/trade fleet to East Africa (and reputedly, they also reached Australia & America) before deciding that all they could want was already there at home and literally let the greatest fleet of the day rot away due to indifference.

I realise that these inward looking phases were probably an inevitable part of their culture (centralised & convinced of their own superiority and thus no need to look elsewhere), but as a 'what if', I do wonder what would have happened if they'd expanded for even 20 more years back then...Including, but not limited to the Chinese sailing around Africa to encounter Western Europe, or even if it'd happened at teh same time as western expansion, and they'd 'met' around Cape Town.
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China and Western Europe were aware of each other since before Roman times.

The reason China was so inwards looking was because of how massive it was (for a pre industrial state) and the large population. China had to concentrate heavily on developing the bureaucracy and cultural institutions just to be able to keep China together.
 
The_Reaper said:
China and Western Europe were aware of each other since before Roman times.

The reason China was so inwards looking was because of how massive it was (for a pre industrial state) and the large population. China had to concentrate heavily on developing the bureaucracy and cultural institutions just to be able to keep China together.
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Yeah, but aware through rumours, etc. is one thing, having them turn up on your doorstep with a fleet of ships bigger than anything you've ever built is another thing entirely.

Marco Polo was significant due to having direct contact after all.
 
The_Reaper said:
Or perhaps what if they didn't follow salic law?
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True, but the succession probably would have been disputed, or at least led to a relatively weak/unsteady rule by the heir (unless the heir was very able).
 
telsor said:
True, but the succession probably would have been disputed, or at least led to a relatively weak/unsteady rule by the heir (unless the heir was very able).
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His daughter married the Holy Roman Emperor so it would be interesting of all of his lands (including the French ones) were included as part of the HRE.

But a male heir capable of taking control probably provides for a more interesting what if scenario.
 

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The Spartan led army at Thermopylae get steamrolled by the Persian army. Could it have led to the end of the Romans before they even existed, or even bigger the end of western civilization.
 
Collingwood pro said:
The Spartan led army at Thermopylae get steamrolled by the Persian army. Could it have led to the end of the Romans before they even existed, or even bigger the end of western civilization.
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I'm not sure why it would effect Rome

Plus an empire the size of Persia was going to inevitably collapse sooner or later anyway.
 
The_Reaper said:
I'm not sure why it would effect Rome

Plus an empire the size of Persia was going to inevitably collapse sooner or later anyway.
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Good point was just thinking that if the Greeks had been defeated that they could have led to a serious invasion of Europe before they eventually fell. Also since from my knowledge (Which could be off) the initial creators of Rome were mostly Greek.
 
Collingwood pro said:
Good point was just thinking that if the Greeks had been defeated that they could have led to a serious invasion of Europe before they eventually fell. Also since from my knowledge (Which could be off) the initial creators of Rome were mostly Greek.
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Rome was founded centuries before the battle of Thermopylae.
 
Collingwood pro said:
Good point was just thinking that if the Greeks had been defeated that they could have led to a serious invasion of Europe before they eventually fell. Also since from my knowledge (Which could be off) the initial creators of Rome were mostly Greek.
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Not really. There wasn't really much of 'Europe' to conquer that would have been worth the trouble.

The Greeks had a few trading colonies, perhaps early Carthage (more Africa) and Italy (more Etruscan than Roman), but they would have been a long way to move the required troops for not a lot.

Actually, as they would all have required sea power, Salamis was probably much more significant than Thermopylae.
 
The_Reaper said:
Rome was founded centuries before the battle of Thermopylae.
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My bad. Was about that was a couple hundred years off, was actually reading about when the Roman empire was founded. Properly better if I did research. Although it is interesting to wonder how different we would be if the Greeks had fallen to the Persians.
 
What if the Vikings had continued their settlement of North America around 1000 AD?
 
evo said:
Cuban missile crisis was kennedy and the Vietnam war was the Democrats, but you are worried about Nixon
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Why are you saying that Kennedy deliberately provoked the Cuban missile crisis?
 
pokerspiv said:
Nixon ended the Vietnam war which JFK started.
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Do you want a lolly for that contribution? I suppose Kennedy is to blame for the American civil war as well?

It was Eisnhower ,Ho chi min first approached for help ending the French Barbaric rule. He was told to f off, because the Americans wanted a proxy war with the communists, knew the Vietnamese would turn to them.
 
little graham said:
Do you want a lolly for that contribution? I suppose Kennedy is to blame for the American civil war as well?

It was Eisnhower ,Ho chi min first approached for help ending the French Barbaric rule. He was told to f off, because the Americans wanted a proxy war with the communists, knew the Vietnamese would turn to them.
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What has that got to do with your assumption Nixon would start a Nuclear war?

Nixon was the least warlike US president of the last 70 years.

Obviously the only thing you know about Nixon is that he was somehow evil? He was drummed out of office for recording someone without their permission. Obama did the same to 300 million Americans.

Apart from that he was one of the better presidents. He did end the Vietnam war, and normalised America's relations with China, both of which were massive accomplishments.
 
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