What is going wrong with the NBL?

[Heardy_101]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...-crocodiles-fold/story-fne5r6q3-1226615004280

The Townsville Crocodiles have unofficially folded with the NBL rejecting the move.

And this is supposed to be after a time where Brisbane, 2nd Melbourne and Sydney are supposed to have made comebacks, with so far only the latter coming back after initially folding.

Seriously, something needs to be done because it appears that the NBL has well and truly had it's heydey and is barely surviving in an Australian market dominated by the 2 major football codes.

 

[krisholio14]

Why pay big dollars to go and watch a D grade product when you can spend the same or lesser amount on NBA League Pass and get an A Grade product, then watch it on your big TV without having to shell out additional dollars for food/parking etc.

You just don't get bang for your buck simple as that.

And trying to make the entertainment side of things more like the NBA only highlights the gulf between the two even more.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Basketball will come back in a big way in the next few years.

Also careless expansion really tore the thing apart. I couldnt believe my eyes when they were talking of another expansion about a year ago TBO because the Kings were finally sustainable...

They never bothered trying to strengthen the teams they had, but were trying to expand exand expand

The only Growth the league has shown in the last two years is because the Wildcats went from filling a stadium of 2000 people to 12000 people

 

[nufan]

Basketball will come back in a big way in the next few years.

I disagree, I'll mainly put it down to how easily accessible watching the NBA is these days. The depth of talent is also a major concern that will never be rectified until the big $$ come into the league. And without any decent television rights sponsorships are almost impossible to find

 

[djrossie16]

If a billionaire takes over the league and entices the best Aussies to come back i'd watch it. If you had Bogut, Anderson, Jawai, Baynes, Ingles, Newley, Delly, Mills and all the other top Aussies in the league i'd attend more games.

 

[Wickzki]

Here is my list....

• The move from winter to summer really hammered the NBL talent level. While the A League has been a success with its league running simultaneously with some of the world's major competitions the NBL has struggled mightily. The talent is far too diluted. In the past you would have Australia's top players (not in the NBA) be able to play in the NBL and then line up for European teams. This choice is no longer available to them. Hence, players must make the best financial decisions for themselves. If they can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not reaching the six figures, by playing in Europe then they must take that option. This also has an impact on the quality of imports that the NBL gets from the United States. While each year we get a certain amount of high quality imports (Jonny Flynn) the across the board standard of import quality is much lower. Between the 1980's and early-to-mid 1990's the NBL routinely saw superstar quality imports making the choice to play here (Crawford, Loggins, Grace, McDonald, Trimmingham, McClain, Rose, Mee, Brooks, Fisher, Bolden, etc, etc, etc.)
• On the summer thing - the NBL failed to realize that not many people want to sit in an indoor stadium during the beautiful summer months. The move was intended to move the season away from the AFL and NRL seasons. The NBL failed to notice that the teams that were in a predominantly AFL/NRL market were doing just fine. In the years since the summer league started most of the teams in an AFL/NRL market have either folded or have been on the brink of extinction (NM Giants/SE Magic merger brought about due to the move to summer before it became a reality, Victoria Titans, South Dragons, West Sydney Razorbacks, Sydney Kings, Brisbane Bullets, Newcastle/Hunter, Canberra, Wollongong, Melbourne Tigers).
• The points cap - This system was intended to stop the rorting of the salary cap which was a routine practice in the league. However, it heavily discourages player development. A prime example of this is the Perth Wildcats who in spite of the system have still managed to be successful. If you have a successful team AND a successful junior development program you are penalized for being successful. The players that you develop see their point values raised while at the same time your winning nucleus keeps their high point rating. It forces a championship caliber team to lose their development players (or make the choice of losing a star) even if the team's chemistry and camaraderie would keep players within the actual salary cap. (Example only) -- Imagine if the AFL tried telling Collingwood "Sorry, you've done a magnificent job developing Daisy Thomas but even though he's willing to accept less money for your club to stay within the salary cap he's going to have to leave because his value to the league is too great." You would be absolutely gutted and rightfully so if you were a Pies fan. However, that's what the NBL does.
• Poor management - we saw how simply inept Basketball Australia and the NBL are just yesterday -- whenever news breaks that has an effect on the SEABL we get news quickly. The Crocs news was rumored all morning yet it took until the middle of the afternoon for the NBL to deal with it. The NBL could have turned a negative into a positive by demonstrating positive public relations but Kristina Keneally and Chuck Harmison made themselves unavailable to the media.
• The lack of connection between the amateur/local/district competitions and the NBL -- Basketball is (or at least was) the highest participation sport in Australia. The connection between the local amateur and semi-professional leagues is non-existent. Therefore, the potential for players, administrators and supporters at that level becoming committed supporters of NBL basketball has failed miserably.
• Costs -- NBL teams do not charge extraordinary amounts of money for tickets because they enjoy ripping off their fan base but rather they do this out of necessity. They have to cover costs themselves. Unfortunately, in trying to cover costs ticket prices are at a level that makes it nearly impossible for low to middle income families to enjoy the privilege of attending games on a regular basis much less purchasing memberships. It's something people need to be committed to otherwise it's not in their best interests.
• Low marketability -- a combination of all of the above, particularly lack of star power, has set the marketability of the NBL at a low level. The league cannot survive on the back of one or two players in regards to marketing the game (e.g. Patty Mills and Jonny Flynn the past two years). Back in the NBL's glory days there was nary a game that you could attend that lacked a star player. Every team, or close to it, had someone the general public could care about. Of course, the rivalries always attracted larger crowds but if you were to attend a game between, for example, North Melbourne Giants and Canberra Cannons (non rivals) you would see Rob Rose, Simon Dwight, Darryl McDonald, Pat Reidy and a number of other players of a high level. This made almost all games marketable.

There are many, many more. However, this will do to start with.

I do believe that if the NBL moved the league back to a winter season (I'd rather the league compete for publicity with the AFL and NRL (which still gets significantly greater press in their off season than the NBL gets during their season) than competed with the NBA and Euro leagues for our top players and imports), eliminated the stupid points cap system, encouraged our top players to return to the league during their primary European down season (most European imports play in countries like Mexico during the Euro off-season, surely Australia is a better destination), established healthy connections with the underage, amateur and semi-professional organisations within our country that the league would turn itself around.

 

[peternorth]

great posts here.

i really wish the nbl could get its act together. it seems to be bogged down and unable to get back up.

im saddened by the news of another team folding.

as krisholio14 said - pay to watch best league in the world on league pass/foxtel rather than the nbl. the internet has made it easier to watch the nba now. its right there, whereas before it was a 1.5 hr show/week. to get your fix, you'd watch/goto the nbl. i loved watching games live and on tv.

money - players arent gonna come here for intrinsic value anymore. things are getting more expensive here, but travelling and purchasing stuff in the USA is cheaper. so go there, play in the A and buy up!

there are more knowledgable persons here when it comes to the nbl, so i will bow to their opinions.

 

[neroblack]

I keep thinking that the league may end up reverting to something like the ABA Conferences (Big V, SEABL, Waratah, etc) and there will be a shortish national championship tournament. Financially, it makes some sense. The players good enough will go to Europe, but that's happening anyway, and our league will never be as strong (standard and pay wise) as it is over there.

There are a few big enough investors in Australian bball to support teams themselves, but it's not clear that there's enough to make a sustainable league.

 

[Heardy_101]

Personally, I would like to see the league revert back to winter.

More promotion. Do you ever read anything in the papers? Eg "Come to tonights game the blah blah blahs vs the la la las, special price buy 2 tickets get a 3rd free" or what have you. No, I don't.

Teams need to be centralised and in the capitals. Not having Brisbane for such a long time has killed the market in QLD, especially with the Gold Coast folding last year and now it looks like a 50/50 chance that Townsville looks like folding. Not having a Sydney team also killed the league in NSW.

 

[Upgrayedd]

If a billionaire takes over the league and entices the best Aussies to come back i'd watch it. If you had Bogut, Anderson, Jawai, Baynes, Ingles, Newley, Delly, Mills and all the other top Aussies in the league i'd attend more games.

Why dont they just buy Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo and Rooney for the A-League?

 

[Upgrayedd]

Personally, I would like to see the league revert back to winter.

More promotion. Do you ever read anything in the papers? Eg "Come to tonights game the blah blah blahs vs the la la las, special price buy 2 tickets get a 3rd free" or what have you. No, I don't.

Teams need to be centralised and in the capitals. Not having Brisbane for such a long time has killed the market in QLD, especially with the Gold Coast folding last year and now it looks like a 50/50 chance that Townsville looks like folding. Not having a Sydney team also killed the league in NSW.

Kinda ties into diluting the talent-pool and expansion

West Sydney Killed off the Kings

Perth Wildcats
Adelaide 36ers
Melbourne Tigers
New Zealand Breakers
Brisbane Bullets
Wollongong Hawks
Brisbane Bullets
Cairnes Taipans.


The NBL is going to get a huge free kick with the Wildcats having an Insane amount of support over in W.A. and the general rise of people's intrest in Basketball. They never wanted to strengthen grass-roots but wanted to expand and cap the ability of teams to bring in new talent.


Also as someone pointed out, Cap system MUST be scratched. Johnny Flynn was a good grab but if Melbourne could attract another semi-decent name from Europe they should not be punished by being told "oh sorry your quota of Australians is not enough"

 

[djrossie16]

Why dont they just buy Messi, Xavi, Ronaldo and Rooney for the A-League?

basketball is better

 

[Upgrayedd]

I can guarentee you that Mills/Bayes would play for half the money and a minute a game in the NBA then star in the NBL

 

[djrossie16]

I can guarentee you that Mills/Bayes would play for half the money and a minute a game in the NBA then star in the NBL

No you can't i'm sorry

 

[OrdinaryJoel]

The NBA is the pinnacle of basketball, period.

The aim for the majority of ballers is to one day be a star in that league, and that league alone. If Baynes and Mills are already there, with plenty of years to make some noise to an extent, then they would stay there. Why would they want to come back to the NBL and be a big fish in a little pond?

 

[djrossie16]

The NBA is the pinnacle of basketball, period.

The aim for the majority of ballers is to one day be a star in that league, and that league alone. If Baynes and Mills are already there, with plenty of years to make some noise to an extent, then they would stay there. Why would they want to come back to the NBL and be a big fish in a little pond?

Yeah but when it comes to that specific post I was referring too re money you can't "guarentee" anything. What you can read minds? Look my original post was pretty much a hypothetical about what would get me to attend an NBL game. That would be it. The league is a basketcase and pretty crap right now. Maybe I should have changed billionaire to millionaire and it wouldn't have attracted such attention.
Right now i'm loving my NBA and college ball. Don't even know who did what this season in the NBL.

 

[Upgrayedd]

The NBA is the pinnacle of basketball, period.

The aim for the majority of ballers is to one day be a star in that league, and that league alone. If Baynes and Mills are already there, with plenty of years to make some noise to an extent, then they would stay there. Why would they want to come back to the NBL and be a big fish in a little pond?

Minimum NBA contract for being signed up to the NBA is half of the NBL salary cap, so your not earning any more money by deciding to play in Australia

Considering as well Baynes took a pay-cut to leave Greece (Tax free as well) to join the spurs.

 

[OrdinaryJoel]

Yeah but when it comes to that specific post I was referring too re money you can't "guarentee" anything. What you can read minds? Look my original post was pretty much a hypothetical about what would get me to attend an NBL game. That would be it. The league is a basketcase and pretty crap right now. Maybe I should have changed billionaire to millionaire and it wouldn't have attracted such attention.
Right now i'm loving my NBA and college ball. Don't even know who did what this season in the NBL.

It's not just about the money, it's about the way the league is ran too, but I get your point re: more money to entice Aussies back home.

The sad thing is, is that the NBL is probably worse than the Philippines and Europe leagues...

 

[Upgrayedd]

It's better then the CBA....

 

[Wickzki]

Let's put the lack of talent argument further...

http://backpagelead.com.au/basketball/8988-losing-lewis-would-be-madness-for-melbourne

Bennie Lewis... a solid bench contributor when given playing time warrants articles that state that it "would be madness" for the Tigers to lose him to free agency.

In the NBL's prime he would have been lucky to see a spot on the bench and more likely he'd be a semi-pro player in the SEABL hyped for flashy dunks but not good enough to make it to the NBL.

 

[Heardy_101]

djrossie, shut up.

"Basketball is better"

Pretty dumb thing to post. He was making an example of a similar situation with Soccer.

"No you can't I'm sorry"

Why can't he?

Start posting sense or not at all! Do you know what you're on about?

As a true supporter, I would attend a game regardless of who owned what. I don't think a billionaire is the way to go. Remember Clive Palmer and the Gold Coast soccer club? Christopher Skase and the Brisbane Bears? Eddy Groves? The ex-Sydney Kings owner (can't remember his name). No, we don't need tycoons in sport.

 

[J Shuttlesworth]

It's a small thing, but it's a thing I feel hurts the brand.

That is that the NBL is just poor visually. Boring same template style jersey's that hardly promote pride in a team, in the 90's team's had there own look and more 'team individualism' which made it much easier for people to get behind in my opinion, now it's abit like do you go for the bright orange ones, what are they called again?

Also the court's look terrible, I believe some have been improved, like NZ have at least upgraded from that ****ing terrible dark brown court? Poor use of the sponsor logo's etc. that have just been slapped on them with little to no thought of how it will actually look, look at the NBA's courts, they're fantastic and actually give the appearance of a home court with some pride behind it, not which local rec centre are we playing in tonight?

Given the NBA don't have to worry about putting as many sponsors on it, but that's not a good enough excuse to not make them actually look more like home court's aside from a colour for the paint, actually that goes for the logo's on the jersey's as well, they had logo's on the jersey's in the 90's but they were so much more tastefully done. Not just a big white box of ugly here and there, this is probably more the businesses fault, but still someone is at fault.

My small rant about a small issue in terms of league survival, however it is a factor, to go with alot of the above mentioned issues, in my enjoyment, or lack thereof in NBL Basketball.

 

[neroblack]

It's a small thing, but it's a thing I feel hurts the brand.

That is that the NBL is just poor visually. Boring same template style jersey's that hardly promote pride in a team, in the 90's team's had there own look and more 'team individualism' which made it much easier for people to get behind in my opinion, now it's abit like do you go for the bright orange ones, what are they called again?

Also the court's look terrible, I believe some have been improved, like NZ have at least upgraded from that ******* terrible dark brown court? Poor use of the sponsor logo's etc. that have just been slapped on them with little to no thought of how it will actually look, look at the NBA's courts, they're fantastic and actually give the appearance of a home court with some pride behind it, not which local rec centre are we playing in tonight?

Given the NBA don't have to worry about putting as many sponsors on it, but that's not a good enough excuse to not make them actually look more like home court's aside from a colour for the paint, actually that goes for the logo's on the jersey's as well, they had logo's on the jersey's in the 90's but they were so much more tastefully done. Not just a big white box of ugly here and there, this is probably more the businesses fault, but still someone is at fault.

My small rant about a small issue in terms of league survival, however it is a factor, to go with alot of the above mentioned issues, in my enjoyment, or lack thereof in NBL Basketball.

This is a pretty good point. Some things don't appear very professional.

The new Perth Stadium looks great, the atmosphere is genuine, and they don't try to just create it by playing pointless music in the background. I hate music being played at Tiger's games during play. HATE it.

I'm hoping that if the Tigers can get into the new Margaret Court Arena, they can set it up in a similar way, and get some tiger's colours on the floor. I also wish that all the corporate boxes around the court could be pissed off, and we could get more seats closer to the action (like the NBA courts). These things make a difference. Surely the sponsors would prefer if their logo stood out and looked a bit classier, as opposed to being one of 50 crap looking signs that all blend together, and look cheap.

 

[Shane Mead]

They can't get a television deal worth anything. During the winter, everyone watches football and during summer it is to hot to people to huddle up indoors when they can watch Cricket or hit the beach. The talent is not up to par, keeping in mind with the amount of NBA available, the NBL is competing with them. Also the production levels are in the toilet.

The main issue with Basketball in this Country is the people running it, a bunch of old lawyers hanging onto some authority. The entire sport needs to be revamped for it to be successful.

No idea why anyone watches the NBL when there is the NBA, NCAA and Euro Leagues.

 

[djrossie16]

djrossie, shut up.

"Basketball is better"

Pretty dumb thing to post. He was making an example of a similar situation with Soccer.

"No you can't I'm sorry"

Why can't he?

Start posting sense or not at all! Do you know what you're on about?

As a true supporter, I would attend a game regardless of who owned what. I don't think a billionaire is the way to go. Remember Clive Palmer and the Gold Coast soccer club? Christopher Skase and the Brisbane Bears? Eddy Groves? The ex-Sydney Kings owner (can't remember his name). No, we don't need tycoons in sport.

No.1 This is the Basketball board get used to it being no 1 buddy. Okay maybe I was a bit flippant there point taken

No.2 I suppose you can Guarentee everything you're saying? You're another mind reader I guess. Fair enough.

Okay forget the billionaire thing I couldn't care less. My point is what would get me to watch an NBL game is seeing the best Aussies. Whatever way that happens i'm happy.

edited for peace sakes via peternorth crackdown