What Now?

[_RT_]

Well we are 0-4 and have just been beaten by last years wooden spooners, a game which a number of us would have almost certainly expected to win. So where to now? What is our short, medium and long term goals for the rest of the 09 season, because in reality our hopes of making finals are officially extinct.

So here are 2 questions that I believe we need answers to and I don't just want single word/line answers for those of you who do respond:

1. Do we persist with the older players or do we start looking at the kids?
2. Do we persist with the coach or do we appoint a caretaker?

Personally, I think we should start looking at the kids and should give Wallace the rest of the season.

Firstly, we need to find out once and for all which kids we have can deliver at AFL level and which ones can't. We know what blokes like Brown, Richo, Bowden, Simmonds and co can do. In all seriousness, some of these guys are currently holding onto their careers by a very thin thread. There are some young players on our list who have been here for a couple of years and they should be given a fair crack at showing whether they can cut it at this level. I know a couple of them have had the odd game here and there and some here believe they aren't any good but really they can't be any worse than some of the players we've had running around recently.

Secondly, with regards Wallace, the issue is, what are we going to gain by sacking him now. We'll still have to pay him out, so we don't save anything $ wise. Will it make a big difference in the overall position on the ladder come the end of the season? Not really so we gain nothing there. Whats the chance that the caretaker will end up getting the job? A slight chance, but who would take over odds are it would be one of the current assistants and there isn't much there that screams out to you to say I can take this club and drag it back to something that resembles a side capable of playing competitive hard at it football for a start.

So in summary, play the kids keep Wallace on for the time being and see what happens. You never know, we might actually find some players for the future.

 

[Catsace]

Obviously the start to the season for the Tigers is a fan's worst nightmare, but i do wonder about one thing.

Richmond genuinely had Geelong scrambling for breath in the 3rd quarter and early in the last quarter at Skilled in Round 2, before Geelong pulled through for a 20 point win. The Tigers blasted 8 goals in the 3rd quarter at a hostile ground, and against a side that has lost three games in two years.

How do the Tigers play with that intensity, passion and skill against us for a significant part of the game, yet play like this against the Dees? That sort of play surely can be repeated, it can't be a fluke can it? I don't think anyone bar maybe the Pies in that game last year have kicked 8 goals against Geelong in a quarter for two calendar years. Any side that can demonstrate that sort of performance must know that they have the equipment to repeat that. I find it amazing that this sort of footy cannot be repeated against lesser opposition.

On to the two questions, i reckon Hardwick might be the right bloke. He's a no-nonsense sort of person who probably will not be afraid to call things as they need to be said, and that might be what's required at the Tigers. Geelong had that review in 2006-7, and things were said that needed to be aired. Gary Jr for example was called out to improve his fitness and efforts. Umm...i think that has had a degree of success! Surely Deledio, Tambling, Riewoldt and McMahon among many could also be made to lift their output to match their talent.

And secondly, i do think that maybe Richo aside, who is a spiritual leader of the club, perhaps some of the other older players need to be either moved on a la McGuinness/McDermott and co at Adelaide under Blight in 1997. The younger players probably need to be impressed about what it takes to play at an AFL club, and also the ones who don't put in 100% effort from here on in will be delisted. There is a lot of underperforming younger players at Richmond in relation to the talent they must have demonstrated as draftees, and surely this missing output has to be 'found' by the new coaching regime. If say for the rest of this year there is no real improvement, then maybe a bit of a cull.

But then again, improvement can come from within. I probably use Geelong as an example, but would anyone seriously have thought that before the siren blew to start the Round 6 game in 2007 between our two clubs, that Geelong would suddenly win 46 of the next 49 games? Anyone who thought that may happen would have been certified! But as an aside, perhaps the Tigers need to employ 'Leading Teams' the consultants that established the foundation of what allowed for the channels of self-improvement to flourish at Geelong. The Cats have gone from a maddenly inconsistent side to being statistically the winningest side in a two year period ever. That is a remarkable transformation, and the belief (apart from a particular game in September last year) to continue to strive to win just keeps growing. Tigers should try something like that.

 

[Danog]

Drop the older people who aren't performing, as well as the people who've had ample time.

Out: Simmonds, Brown, Tuck, Hislop
In: Pattison, JON, Coughlan, Thomson

 

[TigerCleavage]

Bit hard wanting to drop tuck, been very good at doing the unfancy grunt work in the middle.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

I think persist with the older players performing. Why drop someone performing? We don't have many doing so.

We are very much a week to week proposition at the moment and should still be looking to win, because we have the ability to.

 

[Macka09]

Drop the older people who aren't performing, as well as the people who've had ample time.

Out: Simmonds, Brown, Tuck, Hislop
In: Pattison, JON, Coughlan, Thomson

Out; Wallace

IN: Kevin09

 

[deliberate!!]

Well we are 0-4 and have just been beaten by last years wooden spooners, a game which a number of us would have almost certainly expected to win. So where to now? What is our short, medium and long term goals for the rest of the 09 season, because in reality our hopes of making finals are officially extinct.

So here are 2 questions that I believe we need answers to and I don't just want single word/line answers for those of you who do respond:

1. Do we persist with the older players or do we start looking at the kids?
2. Do we persist with the coach or do we appoint a caretaker?

Personally, I think we should start looking at the kids and should give Wallace the rest of the season.

Firstly, we need to find out once and for all which kids we have can deliver at AFL level and which ones can't. We know what blokes like Brown, Richo, Bowden, Simmonds and co can do. In all seriousness, some of these guys are currently holding onto their careers by a very thin thread. There are some young players on our list who have been here for a couple of years and they should be given a fair crack at showing whether they can cut it at this level. I know a couple of them have had the odd game here and there and some here believe they aren't any good but really they can't be any worse than some of the players we've had running around recently.

Secondly, with regards Wallace, the issue is, what are we going to gain by sacking him now. We'll still have to pay him out, so we don't save anything $ wise. Will it make a big difference in the overall position on the ladder come the end of the season? Not really so we gain nothing there. Whats the chance that the caretaker will end up getting the job? A slight chance, but who would take over odds are it would be one of the current assistants and there isn't much there that screams out to you to say I can take this club and drag it back to something that resembles a side capable of playing competitive hard at it football for a start.

So in summary, play the kids keep Wallace on for the time being and see what happens. You never know, we might actually find some players for the future.

Immediately, get a new coach...temporary and interim, just to get Wallace the heck out of there.
A new voice....ask anyone to take the temp job, and see how they travel.
If any ****wit wants long term, pass them by. No more job security, pension schemes at Richmond.
No promises....just show us what you can do with the current list.

And as a back up, we prepare to interview all comers at years end, if the temp coach isn't suitable. Why should we be held over a barrel by some smart ass coach. You work for us ON OUR TERMS. Or **** off.

First...Give the current list a chance to respond to a different coach immediately.
Will freshen the place up to start with.

And yes, pay out Wallace the dud. It has to be done. It's done in business...cut our losses and move on.

Get to it March.

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Coaches will be falling head over heals to coach us based on that delib.

 

[astro_toby]

Coaches will be falling head over heals to coach us based on that delib.

of course they will - there is only 16 positions available to be a head coach of an AFL side - and currently only one position POSSIBLY vacant - anyone aspiring to be an AFL coach would be a fool not to back themselves into this position.

I think Wallace should go now - give a new coach / voice 18 weeks to evaluate the list so we can move forward correctly at seasons end

 

[rfctigerarmy]

Yeah, and what happens when the 'new voice' doesn't improve our current status? What happens after that.

Anyone out there interested in rebuilding a club again with limited success? Anyone? No? Ok then.

I think some potential coaches might wait out to see whats on offer.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Firstly, I have no grudge with Wallace. But fact is, he has had his time and was unfortunately unable to deliver. it's a simple obvious business type decision to replace him. But when?

I believe that the crux of the list has a future at AFL level. Some older players must retire come the end of the season, and even some younger players must be traded or dropped from the list (Bowden - great game today, Brown, Simmonds, McMahon, JON(?), Raines(?), a few others).

The younger members of the list in the 20-23 age group have stalled in their development, but I think the right coach can get more out of them. They seriously need to spend more time in the gym to build their bodies up - Deledio, Foley, Collins, White, Cotchin, McGuane, Moore, Thursfield, Hislop, etc all need stonger upper bodies asap.

The problem we have is that if we stick with Wallace for the rest of the season and play kids to see what they have, well we won't see what they have since our players are not responding to Wallace.

I really do not believe that Buckley is the answer. He has the personality of a rock, and does not come across to me as someone who would draw the best out of the kids - but I could be wrong. Hardwick is another popular candidate who played the style of footy that tends to produce a decent coach. Maybe we can put either of these guys on trial for the rest of the season - then deduce at the end if we keep them on, or look at another coach coming out of contract.

We don't need a full rebuild, we need to progress the talent we have and recruit a few more into the fold whilst the current crop are not too old. We need to find the right coach who can deliver this outcome before next season starts.

 

[Barnzy]

Firstly, I have no grudge with Wallace. But fact is, he has had his time and was unfortunately unable to deliver. it's a simple obvious business type decision to replace him. But when?

I believe that the crux of the list has a future at AFL level. Some older players must retire come the end of the season, and even some younger players must be traded or dropped from the list (Bowden - great game today, Brown, Simmonds, McMahon, JON(?), Raines(?), a few others).

The younger members of the list in the 20-23 age group have stalled in their development, but I think the right coach can get more out of them. They seriously need to spend more time in the gym to build their bodies up - Deledio, Foley, Collins, White, Cotchin, McGuane, Moore, Thursfield, Hislop, etc all need stonger upper bodies asap.

The problem we have is that if we stick with Wallace for the rest of the season and play kids to see what they have, well we won't see what they have since our players are not responding to Wallace.

I really do not believe that Buckley is the answer. He has the personality of a rock, and does not come across to me as someone who would draw the best out of the kids - but I could be wrong. Hardwick is another popular candidate who played the style of footy that tends to produce a decent coach. Maybe we can put either of these guys on trial for the rest of the season - then deduce at the end if we keep them on, or look at another coach coming out of contract.

We don't need a full rebuild, we need to progress the talent we have and recruit a few more into the fold whilst the current crop are not too old. We need to find the right coach who can deliver this outcome before next season starts.

You're not going to get Buckley, Hardwick or anything decent candidate during the season. With the current state of a club even if this was my shot for a coaching job I would give the cold hard facts - A lot of the list needs to turned over which pushes development back even further and consider the GC coming in too. I can't see any person taking on the job if it is only for 2/3 years. Would finish their career before it even gets started.

 

[deliberate!!]

Coaches will be falling head over heals to coach us based on that delib.

Who cares?
Give it to the whacker who's coaching in Z division in the Amateurs.
Or a 1 horse town club coach in the country somewhere.

Just get the Wallet out.
Gees, you guys refuse to treat the disease until you know you'll be your old self again. We don't have the time. The team is diseased?

Can't see that rfctigerarmy???
And what do you suggest??? Continuing with Wallace to further pollute the playing group???

 

[TigerPower]

Well we are 0-4 and have just been beaten by last years wooden spooners, a game which a number of us would have almost certainly expected to win. So where to now? What is our short, medium and long term goals for the rest of the 09 season, because in reality our hopes of making finals are officially extinct.

So here are 2 questions that I believe we need answers to and I don't just want single word/line answers for those of you who do respond:

1. Do we persist with the older players or do we start looking at the kids?
2. Do we persist with the coach or do we appoint a caretaker?

Personally, I think we should start looking at the kids and should give Wallace the rest of the season.

Firstly, we need to find out once and for all which kids we have can deliver at AFL level and which ones can't. We know what blokes like Brown, Richo, Bowden, Simmonds and co can do. In all seriousness, some of these guys are currently holding onto their careers by a very thin thread. There are some young players on our list who have been here for a couple of years and they should be given a fair crack at showing whether they can cut it at this level. I know a couple of them have had the odd game here and there and some here believe they aren't any good but really they can't be any worse than some of the players we've had running around recently.

Secondly, with regards Wallace, the issue is, what are we going to gain by sacking him now. We'll still have to pay him out, so we don't save anything $ wise. Will it make a big difference in the overall position on the ladder come the end of the season? Not really so we gain nothing there. Whats the chance that the caretaker will end up getting the job? A slight chance, but who would take over odds are it would be one of the current assistants and there isn't much there that screams out to you to say I can take this club and drag it back to something that resembles a side capable of playing competitive hard at it football for a start.

So in summary, play the kids keep Wallace on for the time being and see what happens. You never know, we might actually find some players for the future.

Okay i'm going to give my 2 cents worth so everyone ****ing listen. What i'm about to say are the necessary changes that need to be made but wont happen because Wallace wants to save his arse. Now we arent in too much of a rut IF we delist, and trade the required players in the LAST draft which is BARELY affected by the Gold Coast, and simultaneously tank at the same time. We cant just keep heaps of 30 year olds on even though they are good players sometimes, we MUST remove them.

Senior list Changes

Joel Bowden delist
Nathan Brown delist
Andrew Collins
Daniel Connors
Trent Cotchin
Mark Coughlan
Ben Cousins
Brett Deledio
Shane Edwards
Nathan Foley
Angus Graham
Tom Hislop
Cleve Hughes
Daniel Jackson
Kane Johnson delist
Jake King delist
Luke McGuane
Jordan McMahon delist
Kelvin Moore TRADE (Rance and Post will fill the void, panics under pressure AT times and we can get a good essential young draft pick. He is 25 now and will be TOO old before we challenge)
Mitch Morton
Chris Newman
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls delist (unless he proves himself)
Adam Pattison
Kayne Pettifer delist
Graham Polak unless he plays seniors delist (list clogger) yes i am human but this club aint a ****ing charity
Dean Polo
Jayden Post
Dean Putt
Andrew Raines
Alex Rance
Matthew Richardson retire mate you wont see finals
Jack Riewoldt
Jay Schulz
Troy Simmonds Delist, Browne, Graham can have their development fast tracked and Patto can become the stop gap while Vickers develops.
Richard Tambling
Adam Thomson
Will Thursfield
Shane Tuck Trade at 27 he will be too old for us, he has some good trade value and will get a good ESSENTIAL pick.
Tyrone Vickery
Matt White
Andrew Browne
Alroy Gilligan
David Gourdis
Robin Nahas
Jarrod Silvester de-list

Action Taken This Year:
Now with that in mind leave Wallace until the end of the year, and OVERRULE team changes and play youth dropping our 30 year old players so we see where we are at and allow us to tank and get some priority picks.

Next Year:
Next year we need to get Hardwick or Hird or Leigh Matthews. Nobody else, we need a hardarse for reasons we already know. We may finish with less than 4 wins but hey we will still get picks 4 and 6.

The Problem:
Wallace will be trying to save his arse and will play the most experienced side, hence leaving us to finish 9th approx with a late year charge just to **** us over. We will have shit all picks and wont make the necessary list changes.

 

[deliberate!!]

Okay i'm going to give my 2 cents worth so everyone ****ing listen. What i'm about to say are the necessary changes that need to be made but wont happen because Wallace wants to save his arse. Now we arent in too much of a rut IF we delist, and trade the required players in the LAST draft which is BARELY affected by the Gold Coast, and simultaneously tank at the same time. We cant just keep heaps of 30 year olds on even though they are good players sometimes, we MUST remove them.

Senior list Changes

Joel Bowden delist
Nathan Brown delist
Andrew Collins
Daniel Connors
Trent Cotchin
Mark Coughlan
Ben Cousins
Brett Deledio
Shane Edwards
Nathan Foley
Angus Graham
Tom Hislop
Cleve Hughes
Daniel Jackson
Kane Johnson delist
Jake King delist
Luke McGuane
Jordan McMahon delist
Kelvin Moore TRADE (Rance and Post will fill the void, panics under pressure AT times and we can get a good essential young draft pick. He is 25 now and will be TOO old before we challenge)
Mitch Morton
Chris Newman
Jarrad Oakley-Nicholls delist (unless he proves himself)
Adam Pattison
Kayne Pettifer delist
Graham Polak unless he plays seniors delist (list clogger) yes i am human but this club aint a ****ing charity
Dean Polo
Jayden Post
Dean Putt
Andrew Raines
Alex Rance
Matthew Richardson retire mate you wont see finals
Jack Riewoldt
Jay Schulz
Troy Simmonds Delist, Browne, Graham can have their development fast tracked and Patto can become the stop gap while Vickers develops.
Richard Tambling
Adam Thomson
Will Thursfield
Shane Tuck Trade at 27 he will be too old for us, he has some good trade value and will get a good ESSENTIAL pick.
Tyrone Vickery
Matt White
Andrew Browne
Alroy Gilligan
David Gourdis
Robin Nahas
Jarrod Silvester de-list

Action Taken This Year:
Now with that in mind leave Wallace until the end of the year, and OVERRULE team changes and play youth dropping our 30 year old players so we see where we are at and allow us to tank and get some priority picks.

Next Year:
Next year we need to get Hardwick or Hird or Leigh Matthews. Nobody else, we need a hardarse for reasons we already know. We may finish with less than 4 wins but hey we will still get picks 4 and 6.

The Problem:
Wallace will be trying to save his arse and will play the most experienced side, hence leaving us to finish 9th approx with a late year charge just to **** us over. We will have shit all picks and wont make the necessary list changes.

Like it TP.