What Shane Tuck Does - 2012 Thread

[_Wang_]

How is it a mistake, when those guys are no longer here, while Tuck is back playing better than he ever has?

Ever stopped and thought that Hardwick knew exactly what he had in Tuck and rather than cut him was prepared to do the hard work to get him to be a better player. If that meant leaving Tuck at Coburg until he mastered what it was that Hardwick wanted then that was the sort of short term pain for long term gain that was needed.

I reckon the same thing is happening with guys like Graham & Browne this year. Maric has come in and taken the number 1 spot, however rather than getting rid of these 2 we extended their contracts and are leaving them at Coburg where they play full games in the roles Hardwick wants them to play and allows them to develop their games. Who knows maybe in 1-2 years time we'll be saying the same things about them.

I think 2 young ruckman is a pretty average example of what you are trying to put across RT. Neither can match with other rucks in the league where Tucky for all is 'deficiencies' was still tearing them a new one in contested ball.

I am with nut on this one. Tucky was the sacrificial lamb while other spuds got a free ride on the magic carpet.

In saying all this it's great to see him back in the team and if he's anything like his old man he will be playing in 10'years time.

 

[Spluff]

a head of Tucky in the 22 while he was BOG for Coburg week in week out?????

Revisionist bullshit. Name more than one occasion where tuck was BOG in the reserves. Players who have been constantly BOG over the last few years - Browne, Gourdis, Webberley, King, Nahas. Tuck was good, but not constantly BOG. He just played the same as he did in the seniors.

 

[nut]

How is it a mistake, when those guys are no longer here, while Tuck is back playing better than he ever has?

Ever stopped and thought that Hardwick knew exactly what he had in Tuck and rather than cut him was prepared to do the hard work to get him to be a better player. If that meant leaving Tuck at Coburg until he mastered what it was that Hardwick wanted then that was the sort of short term pain for long term gain that was needed.

I reckon the same thing is happening with guys like Graham & Browne this year. Maric has come in and taken the number 1 spot, however rather than getting rid of these 2 we extended their contracts and are leaving them at Coburg where they play full games in the roles Hardwick wants them to play and allows them to develop their games. Who knows maybe in 1-2 years time we'll be saying the same things about them.

The difference is RT, Tuck is a player who has finished third in the B&F in 2005, led the competition in contested posessions and has attributes we missed when he was out of the side......I applaud you for taking the compnay line as well.... I just hate seeing an injustice. I saw it first hand in 2010 when we basically put him on the shelf in the preseason... used himn as a sub..... played him out of the centre circle and put him in positions to expose his weekness....



I now know why we didn't play him..... with Tuck we knew what we had.... so we shelved him. We then gave Cotch the roll as our number one ball winner which failed intitially but he quickly grew into the our number 1 ball winner but we still were getting smashed in the guts.... the result from haviung as week ruck option and missing Tucks battle harden body..... and cotch was allowed to do that with out competiting against Tuck. ..... has it worked.... well I would say yes. Could have worked just as well with tuck in the side.... well yes to that as well...... and both situations have just as valid arguments.

 

[CamTinley]

How is it a mistake, when those guys are no longer here, while Tuck is back playing better than he ever has?

Ever stopped and thought that Hardwick knew exactly what he had in Tuck and rather than cut him was prepared to do the hard work to get him to be a better player. If that meant leaving Tuck at Coburg until he mastered what it was that Hardwick wanted then that was the sort of short term pain for long term gain that was needed.

I reckon the same thing is happening with guys like Graham & Browne this year. Maric has come in and taken the number 1 spot, however rather than getting rid of these 2 we extended their contracts and are leaving them at Coburg where they play full games in the roles Hardwick wants them to play and allows them to develop their games. Who knows maybe in 1-2 years time we'll be saying the same things about them.

In the second half of 2008 (Round 12 onwards) Tuck was the dominant player in the entire competition, according to Champion Data. Better than Ablett, better than everybody.

This idea that he's been turned into the player he is now by a brilliant plan of not selecting him when he was clearly best 22 doesn't hold a lot of water.

 

[nut]

Revisionist bullshit. Name more than one occasion where tuck was BOG in the reserves. Players who have been constantly BOG over the last few years - Browne, Gourdis, Webberley, King, Nahas. Tuck was good, but not constantly BOG. He just played the same as he did in the seniors.

well he consitantly played better than Webberly... Thompson...Connors....Hislop......Nason.....etc... etc...

 

[Bazzar]

Did you see the Cotchin interview last night On The Couch. They asked him about Tuck and he said that Tuck himself knew that he has areas of his game that he has to work on and has been like a sponge soaking up advice on how to make his game better. But I suppose it doesn't count either than the man himself realised that and admitted that he needed to work on things to become better.

Cotch also said Cuz taught our players stuff no one else knows about... Really?

I take these media interviews with a grain of salt.

 

[Madison]

No one has ever questioned Tuck's offensive output. But I have seen him running side by side with a team mate down the wing, only to let an opponent come across and pressure the ball carrier. He let the opponent run straight past him.

That is out of his game now. Would he have been able to shut out Kennedy in the last couple of years? I doubt it. And that is what it comes down to.

 

[Bazzar]

No one has ever questioned Tuck's offensive output. But I have seen him running side by side with a team mate down the wing, only to let an opponent come across and pressure the ball carrier. He let the opponent run straight past him.

That is out of his game now. Would he have been able to shut out Kennedy in the last couple of years? I doubt it. And that is what it comes down to.

How many times. Once, twice, ten, fifty?

 

[Madison]

How many times. Once, twice, ten, fifty?

I specifically remember seeing it once. Which is one time too many. Should have been dropped the next week, but probs wasn't cos I am pretty sure it was when Wallace was coaching.

How many times have you seen Cotch, King, Jackson etc do something like that?

It's a mindset thing and it is clearly something he has rectified.

 

[Bazzar]

I specifically remember seeing it once. Which is one time too many. Should have been dropped the next week, but probs wasn't cos I am pretty sure it was when Wallace was coaching.

How many times have you seen Cotch, King, Jackson etc do something like that?

It's a mindset thing and it is clearly something he has rectified.

How can it be a mind set thing if you have seen him do it once?

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Not many would deny Tucky's ability to get the ball, and to deliver it in one way or another.

The two differences I see in his game this year are:
1) The number of times his highly respected opponents have been less influential in games.
2) The fact his tackle count is a lot higher.

Those two points are probably even related.

I think you'd find that a lot of our younger players would probably have had a similar improvement in those areas too.

I've no real idea why Tuck was played at Coburg so long, but I assume there was a presumption that it would be hard to teach an old dog new tricks. That along with the club's course of wanting to get games in to the younger players.

 

[Rustof]

I've no real idea why Tuck was played at Coburg so long

Isnt is obvious? We were tanking for Maric.

 

[CamTinley]

Not many would deny Tucky's ability to get the ball, and to deliver it in one way or another.

The two differences I see in his game this year are:
1) The number of times his highly respected opponents have been less influential in games.
2) The fact his tackle count is a lot higher.

Those two points are probably even related.

I think you'd find that a lot of our younger players would probably have had a similar improvement in those areas too.

I've no real idea why Tuck was played at Coburg so long, but I assume there was a presumption that it would be hard to teach an old dog new tricks. That along with the club's course of wanting to get games in to the younger players.

Well NO

In the time Tuck has been at Richmond this is where he has ranked in terms of average tackles per game ...

2005 - 3rd
2006 - 1st
2007 - 3rd
2008 - 1st
2009 - 8th
2010 - 2nd
2011 - 6th
2012 - 2nd

So there's another fallacy biting the dust.

What's the next imagined deficiency of the unwilling sacrifice which is Shane Tuck ?

 

[Spluff]

Well NO

In the time Tuck has been at Richmond this is where he has ranked in terms of average tackles per game ...

2005 - 3rd
2006 - 1st
2007 - 3rd
2008 - 1st
2009 - 8th
2010 - 2nd
2011 - 6th
2012 - 2nd

So there's another fallacy biting the dust.

What's the next imagined deficiency of the unwilling sacrifice which is Shane Tuck ?

Don't manipulate stats to prove your point. Position in the team is irrelevant, especially in Wallace coached tackle-free teams. He's averaging more tackles this year than any other year in his career, is almost double his career average.

Pmsl, you just have no idea.... Oh` and exactly what were those deficiencies? Exactly how is he different from 2009 to last week?

He's fixed his defensive side. In 2009 he averaged 3.3 tackles a game, this year he is averaging 6.3.

 

[Tigerbob]

Cotch also said Cuz taught our players stuff no one else knows about... Really?

I take these media interviews with a grain of salt.

When it suits you.

Tuck needed to and did amend his defensive deficiencies. Full credit to him. He is now an integral part of the side. Knowing his blood lines he has just begun!

There is also a lot more that some posters do not understand to a gameplan. Some on here think that players run out there and that is it. Tuck I was told was not understanding of defensive structures and running patterns and his mindset was lacking with defensive efforts. Full credit for him to not drop his head and become a better player.

Full credit to Dimma also.

 

[Bruce Monteath]

When it suits you.

Tuck needed to and did amend his defensive deficiencies. Full credit to him. He is now an integral part of the side. Knowing his blood lines he has just begun!

There is also a lot more that some posters do not understand to a gameplan. Some on here think that players run out there and that is it. Tuck I was told was not understanding of defensive structures and running patterns and his mindset was lacking with defensive efforts. Full credit for him to not drop his head and become a better player.

Full credit to Dimma also.

Coincidentally they were just talking about this on SEN with David King. King stated Tucky felt it difficult to grasp the more complex sides of the game plan, mainly when he didn't have the ball.

I maintain that Tucky has changed his game only marginally but that Dimma is now prepared to cut him some slack because he knows Tuck has far more upside than downside.

 

[ize_]

Whether he should or shouldn't have been playing over the past few years isn't all the relevant now. It's in the past, it's done. However I find it unfathomable that anyone who watched him play up until this year, and now in 2012, could deny he's improved immensely as a footballer. He's dropped almost all of his bad habits and picked up some great ones.

 

[El Tigre]

Don't manipulate stats to prove your point. Position in the team is irrelevant, especially in Wallace coached tackle-free teams. He's averaging more tackles this year than any other year in his career, is almost double his career average.



He's fixed his defensive side. In 2009 he averaged 3.3 tackles a game, this year he is averaging 6.3.

Fully agree. Shows more about Terry than Shane.
It does show that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

 

[tiggywigs]

Coincidentally they were just talking about this on SEN with David King. King stated Tucky felt it difficult to grasp the more complex sides of the game plan, mainly when he didn't have the ball.

I maintain that Tucky has changed his game only marginally but that Dimma is now prepared to cut him some slack because he knows Tuck has far more upside than downside.

Agree. The upside is that the spin confirms that Dimma has demonstrated the capacity to learn that Shane's gun talent as an extractor outweighs his shortcomings. In other words, in Dimma we have a coach who is improving, probably more so than Shane has.

 

[TOOs_Finest]

Well NO

In the time Tuck has been at Richmond this is where he has ranked in terms of average tackles per game ...

2005 - 3rd
2006 - 1st
2007 - 3rd
2008 - 1st
2009 - 8th
2010 - 2nd
2011 - 6th
2012 - 2nd

So there's another fallacy biting the dust.

What's the next imagined deficiency of the unwilling sacrifice which is Shane Tuck ?

The only fallacy here is your comprehension ability

Career average tackles: 3.7
2012 average tackles: 6.3

So now you go ahead and keep telling me that Tuck's tackle count per game is not higher this season. I dare you

Tuck is an in and under clearance player. If he doesn't get his hands on the ball, obviously his next objective is to stop his direct opponent from getting a clearance. This is something that he is doing very effectively this season, and the stats back it up.

In fact, it's quite obviously been a major objective of the footy dept to improve this area across the team. Unless you'd like to argue that getting Ross Smith to the club was for his good looks. Or that someone like Deledio who's tackle count has increased in a similar fashion to Tuck's is also a coincidence, ditto Foley... then please go ahead, make a fool of yourself

 

[El Tigre]

Coincidentally they were just talking about this on SEN with David King. King stated Tucky felt it difficult to grasp the more complex sides of the game plan, mainly when he didn't have the ball.

I maintain that Tucky has changed his game only marginally but that Dimma is now prepared to cut him some slack because he knows Tuck has far more upside than downside.

Sometimes it only takes a minor change to have dramatic effect.
I still don't see Tuck as someone that runs hard both ways, but has improved. Dare i say i think even Dusty runs harder back that Tuck. Clearly what has improved is Tuckys tackle count, and applying pressure to the ball carrier (which doesn't show up as a stat).
But i don't think Dimma has necessarily cut him some slack. Just that Tucky has gotton to a point where his play his at his weakest points are an acceptable level.

 

[Kapital city TIGER]

Whether he should or shouldn't have been playing over the past few years isn't all the relevant now. It's in the past, it's done. However I find it unfathomable that anyone who watched him play up until this year, and now in 2012, could deny he's improved immensely as a footballer. He's dropped almost all of his bad habits and picked up some great ones.

always been a fan of Tucky. Did think he missed out ahead of worse players, but accept there may be not following instruction type reasons.

Dont really know about his following defensive structures as rarely get to a game, and you know...dont actually know what players are instructed to do.... but he seems to be passing rather than bombing a bit more, tho that could just be our dominance giving him a bit more space and time.

Seriously - a clearance machine that can pinch hit and provide a fwd marking target...we are lucky to have him.

 

[CamTinley]

The only fallacy here is your comprehension ability

Career average tackles: 3.7
2012 average tackles: 6.3

So now you go ahead and keep telling me that Tuck's tackle count per game is not higher this season. I dare you

Tuck is an in and under clearance player. If he doesn't get his hands on the ball, obviously his next objective is to stop his direct opponent from getting a clearance. This is something that he is doing very effectively this season, and the stats back it up.

In fact, it's quite obviously been a major objective of the footy dept to improve this area across the team. Unless you'd like to argue that getting Ross Smith to the club was for his good looks. Or that someone like Deledio who's tackle count has increased in a similar fashion to Tuck's is also a coincidence, ditto Foley... then please go ahead, make a fool of yourself

I'll make this very simple for you.

Last year (2011) Shane Tuck was played off the bench. When you are not on the field you can't get tackles. I'm sure you can understand this point.

Point two. In 2011 Shane Tuck, when he was on the field played everywhere except in the midfield. Midfielders get the most tackles because they are around the ball more and they are around the stoppages.

So don't cherry pick stats to prove a point.

 

[tugga]

I'll make this very simple for you.

Last year (2011) Shane Tuck was played off the bench. When you are not on the field you can't get tackles. I'm sure you can understand this point.

Point two. In 2011 Shane Tuck, when he was on the field played everywhere except in the midfield. Midfielders get the most tackles because they are around the ball more and they are around the stoppages.

So don't cherry pick stats to prove a point.

Not being smart...genuine question. Why does a Dockers supporter have so much interest in one particular Richmond player?

 

[TOOs_Finest]

I'll make this very simple for you.

Last year (2011) Shane Tuck was played off the bench. When you are not on the field you can't get tackles. I'm sure you can understand this point.

Point two. In 2011 Shane Tuck, when he was on the field played everywhere except in the midfield. Midfielders get the most tackles because they are around the ball more and they are around the stoppages.

So don't cherry pick stats to prove a point.

Then don't quote me and refute facts to deflect and make your own practically unrelated point. Pretty damn simple.

My stats were for his total career vs 2012, you are the one who has conveniently brought in the 2011 crap.