What Should Our Prisoners expect?

[- PC -]

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,11495629%5E2761,00.html

Roche claims discrimination over lack of halal meat
By TIM CLARKE
November 25, 2004

CONVICTED terrorist Jack Roche will have to wait until next year to argue a claim that prison authorities are discriminating against him by not serving enough halal meat.


English-born Roche, 50, became the first person to be convicted under Australian's new anti-terror laws after admitting to conspiring with terror groups Jemaah Islamiah and al-Qaeda to bomb the Israeli Embassy in Canberra.

After changing his plea to guilty midway through his trial in May this year, Roche was sentenced to nine years in prison, which he is currently serving as a segregated prisoner in Hakea jail, 27km south of Perth.

Roche, who converted to Islam in 1992, has lodged a complaint with the Equal Opportunity Commission alleging WA's Department of Justice is discriminating against him on religious grounds by denying him halal meat to eat.

During his sentencing hearing in June, lawyer Hylton Quail told the court Roche was essentially on a vegetarian diet, not out of choice, but because prison authorities had refused his dietary requests.
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An interesting conundrum. What should our prisoners expect in the way of amenities and basic rights? I understand the old bread and water days are long gone..but with the amount of prisoners within our systems I feel we need to streamline the food needs within an appropriate budget. I have no concern with someone requesting a vegetarian diet as you just scrape the meat off the plate

But do we go to the extremes of Jack Roches claim? Should the authorities continue the vegetarian diet? Or do prisoners have more rights than that?

If a prisoner complained that there was no provision for a Vegan diet would the media jump aboard?

I just feel that with the numbers and I would expect differing races that the logistical exercise of trying to feed everyone a different diet would be cost prohibitive.

 

[jim boy]

With these sort of topics, it's always easy to say that he is scum and doesn't deserve any favours or graces. But I tend to think that if you want to show somebody that you are better than them and you them to become more like you, then you have to display the kind of observance of basic human rights that even prisoners are entitled to. Doubt it would be that much of a budgetary issue. Prison kitchens must already be used to handling special dietary needs. They'd be plenty of prisoners who have allergies or diabties or other other things that require a tailored diet.

 

[mantis]

How come all your posts are about people of different colour, religion, or sexual persuasion to you. Surely you can find something negative to post about anglo saxon, christian, heterosexuals, though I doubt you would, bet you are also against gun control, I have a suggestion for you, look up the word "redneck".

 

[- PC -]

How come all your posts are about people of different colour, religion, or sexual persuasion to you. Surely you can find something negative to post about anglo saxon, christian, heterosexuals, though I doubt you would, bet you are also against gun control, I have a suggestion for you, look up the word "redneck".

Please post on topic.

I try and post those things which I feel will make good discussion points.

Obviously your jealousy of me has lead you to start stalking me. I am sorry to disillusion you but I am in a very happy relationship and have no interest in any other woman.

Are you aware Jack Roche was born in England? He is anglo-saxon as far as I am aware. I have posted against christians as you are aware from the thread against the Swedish pastor. I am waiting for a decent thread about heterosexuals to comment on.Care to start one.

As to gun control yes I am against gun control for those weapons below semi-automatic. As I have posted on another thread ..its not the gun that kills its the person who holds it. Instead of gun control what about self control?

I am happy to answer any other questions you may have. I have no agenda other than open honest discussion which should always give one pause as to ones own belief systems.
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From Hyperdictionary

Meaning of REDNECK
Pronunciation: 'red`nek

Definition: [n] a poor white person in the southern US

From Dictionaryonline

red·neck ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rdnk)
n. Offensive Slang
Used as a disparaging term for a member of the white rural laboring class, especially in the southern United States.
A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

I am assuming you mean this term to describe me?

I wouldnt say I was conservative or provincial..but I would also argue that we each have our own personal bigotries such as against fat people.

Once again thank you for your time and look forward to you coming to terms with your true feelings about me, and also recognizing that no matter how great the love we can never be together.

 

[Mead]

A white person regarded as having a provincial, conservative, often bigoted attitude.

Ironic enough, given that Mantis would probably be close to the most bigoted person on bigfooty.

As for the Jack Roche thing, I think people are often uncertain what prison actually is- is it about rehab? is it about protecting society? is it about punishment and revenge?

Personally I think the only real rationale for a humane, western prison is as a means of protecting society- generally it doesn't rehabilitate, often the exact opposite, and the idea of humane punishment is more or less a contradiction in terms.

If that's the case and its simply about protecting society from a dangerous individual like Roche, then I don't think there is any big deal in supplying him with Halal meals- they aren't excessively expensive, and objectively, if he were out of prison but unemployed, the state would be buying his meals via centrelink payments anyway.

If a prisoner asks for something and there is no great cost involved, then the i don't see any problem with them getting it- if punishment were a consideration then presumably there would be far more effective ways of punishing someone than being petty over something like this- and if punishment isn't a consideration, then why be bastards about it?

 

[demon_dave]

as safe an environment as possible, no special foods etc etc, they forfieted those rights when doing crime. They should be given the chance to do their time in a reasonably humane way

 

[bunsen burner]

Must give Muslims halal meat. End of story.

 

[theGimp]

How come all your posts are about people of different colour, religion, or sexual persuasion to you. Surely you can find something negative to post about anglo saxon, christian, heterosexuals, though I doubt you would, bet you are also against gun control, I have a suggestion for you, look up the word "redneck".

How come all your posts are bandwagoning, pollitically correct, tow the line, opinionated bull******** I could hear Naomi Robson force down my throat If I chose to.

Give that high horse a rest will you, you are impressing only yourself.

 

[Ray Nolan]

I have no sympathy for the man but a Muslim prisoner must be provided with a Halal meal.

 

[theGimp]

This Board is populated by WASPs who do not realise what a prison environment is like - a happy crim is one that does not "slash up" or turn violent making life easier for the screws that have to look after them.

But hey I will wait for the prisoners should have no rights brigade

You will excuse me if I do not lose any sleep over this idiots eating requests.
In fact, let's get him a plasma tv, swimming pool and personal trainer.
That will teach him and serve as a great deterrent to more looneys like him.

 

[- PC -]

I actually hadnt thought of it as a ''restitution v retribution'' I was more concerned with the logistical exercise and what level of mollycoddling should go on. And my use of the term mollycoddling does reflect my opinion. I have NOT been in jail (longer than 2hours) so cant comment on conditions ''inside'' nor will I make any attempt to.

Yes the need to keep prisoners happy and peaceful within a closed society does dictate some give and take but at what level? Isnt valium an acceptable alternative?

Because of the length of the article I didnt fully cut and paste but provided a link for further reading.

During his sentencing hearing in June, lawyer Hylton Quail told the court Roche was essentially on a vegetarian diet, not out of choice, but because prison authorities had refused his dietary requests.

But the justice department, which intends to defend the claim, has said all prisoners in Hakea are given access to halal foods.

It has said Roche is receiving three halal meals a week alternated with vegetarian meals, while tinned halal meat or fish was also available from the prison canteen at cost price.

A brief preliminary hearing into the claim was heard yesterday but it is understood the full hearing will not be until March next year.

He is been given Halal meals as are all prisoners who ask for them. Yes it is restricted to 3 meals but to deny he is not is false.What is the level in interstate prisons?

 

[mantis]

Please post on topic.

I try and post those things which I feel will make good discussion points. .

If this is the case then I humbly apologise for casting aspersions on the intent of your posts, but I wasn't the first person to question whether you had ulterior motives in the subjects you chose.

OK back on topic, he should be given halal meals, even though most people would rather he was given bread & water. Also, meals for vegetarians isn't just a case of scraping the meat off, there has to be other things included to make up for what they miss from not eating meat.

Did you know that prisoners at Casuarina want Seafood for their Xmas lunch this year, what are your thoughts on that, should they be given an expensive Xmas lunch?

Re: The Swedish Priest thread, you thought he had a right to say what he did, I think that is hardly having a go at christians.

PS: I don't have anything against all overweight people, hell, my last partner was a tubby.

 

[- PC -]

If this is the case then I humbly apologise for casting aspersions on the intent of your posts, but I wasn't the first person to question whether you had ulterior motives in the subjects you chose.

OK back on topic, he should be given halal meals, even though most people would rather he was given bread & water. Also, meals for vegetarians isn't just a case of scraping the meat off, there has to be other things included to make up for what they miss from not eating meat.

Did you know that prisoners at Casuarina want Seafood for their Xmas lunch this year, what are your thoughts on that, should they be given an expensive Xmas lunch?

Re: The Swedish Priest thread, you thought he had a right to say what he did, I think that is hardly having a go at christians.

PS: I don't have anything against all overweight people, hell, my last partner was a tubby.

Thank you for your thoughts.. define expensive seafood meal? As long as EVERYONE within the prison population can agree on the menu then ( given enough time) I have no concerns .But as Christmas is a religious holiday I would expect those who are atheists and other religions not to care too much about the day itself.
________________________________________

Pastor thread did you not read my concerns about Birdys use of one version of the bible?

Yes I may seem to have ulterior motives but as I recieve a lot of information from the media maybe its the media that needs to be looked at?

Have you heard of the great work done by Rio Tinto and their Northern Exposure program? Wonderful opportunity for the aboriginal community to improve the woeful conditions the government allows them to live in.

http://www.wafuturefund.riotinto.com/news-item-live.asp?NewsID=96&mode=1

Why hasnt the mainstream media picked up on this?

 

[Contra Mundum]

You will excuse me if I do not lose any sleep over this idiots eating requests.
In fact, let's get him a plasma tv, swimming pool and personal trainer.
That will teach him and serve as a great deterrent to more looneys like him.

Can anyone argue on this board without the old reductio in absurdum!

 

[theGimp]

Can anyone argue on this board without the old reductio in absurdum!

Sure.. you first.

 

[theGimp]

My point is there is a big leap from dietary needs to a plasma TV. I am not sure it advances your argument.

Do you think that this should be defined as a need ?
I dont.

 

[theGimp]

So if I were a hassidic Jew in Acacia prison I should be refused access to kosher food. Of course it is a necessity!

Firstly, food in itself is a necessity not the type.
You should be refused access to many things when you are in prison.
If we turn this around, why should the wants (not needs) of this guy be catered for ?

 

[evo]

Just looking at the definition of Halal meat.....It kind of seems a bit vauge,depending on your specific beliefs.I'm not saying this guy is doing it,but a person who wanted to be a nuisance could get rather pedantic about this.It seems to me anyway....

For the meat of an animal to be halal it must be properly slaughtered by a Muslim or a Person of the Book (Christian or Jew), while mentioning the name of Allah; for instance, the animal may not be killed by being boiled or electrocuted, and the carcass should be hung upside down long enough to be bloodfree. By some Fatwas, however, the animal has to be killed only by a Muslim. However, some other Fatwas rule that, according to the Quranic verse 5:5 that declares that food of the People of the Book is halal, the slaughter may be done by a Jew or a Christian. Thus, some observant Muslims will accept kosher meat.

Some of these traditional dietary restrictions may have been created to prevent trichinosis, which can be caught from undercooked pork, and other similar diseases.


I must say this is another reason I'll remain an infidel. I love steak medium rare.

 

[3rdEchelon]

Maybe the prison cooks can cook up some delicious looking and nice-smelling pork dishes and place them in his cell. Trust that head of the religious council to whinge about this.

 

[theGimp]

The needs/wants dichotomy you are seeking to establish is problematic when it comes to matters of religious faith. The practice of your religion should not be impeded whlist you are in prison.

What are we going to do force feed them pork and shell fish!

Nobody is suggesting that this guy or anyone should have to eat anything they dont wish to.
If he does not want to eat pork... then dont. No problem. He should eat his carrots and have a nice big cup of shut the ******** up.
If he wants lobster or kosher meals while in prison... bad luck. He should not be given special treatment based on what imaginary figure he believes in.

 

[pazza]

I think Prisoners would expect to have 3 meals a day, a reasonable amount of exercise time and access to people who might be able to rehabilitate their bad behaviour and be told to give something back for the trouble they have caused.

If they have a differing religion to what would be considered the mainstream, they would expect respect for that view, time to observe prayers and customs and be given the food that religion and belief has attached to it without question.