What went wrong Dipper

[Player]

And here was me thinking England might have turned a corner.

You look like world beaters for the first two tests, have Johnny Enzed at 19/4 then get rolled in three days.

Tell your top order to watch the first over. You would have thought after the 1st test they would have learnt that lesson.

Got to say I like this night test cricket, gives the working punter like myself a chance to actually see a session of cricket. And before you say it was dangerous do you know what happened to that six hit over the crouching fielder?

Caught cleanly by a spectator in the stands.

A most entertaining series. Played in an aggressive manner by all (Expect Richardson with the bat, and Giles with his bloody leg stump theory).

All it needed was Cairns hitting Tufnell repeatedly back over his head into the stands at the Oval and the series would of had it all.

In the circumstances I happy winning the ODI 3-2 and sharing the test series 1-1. Can you say the same thing for England?

Ha Ha, Come back in six months and our 1st XI will give you a real series.

 

[SeinDude]

Player,

New Zealand have been playing some really positive cricket of late, but I wonder how much affected England were from the Ben Hollioake tragedy?? After Hussain and Ranprakash found out during the lunch break of one of the tests, they went out within 3 overs after the lunch break... it would be very hard to be motivated after something like that in my opinion.

Cheers!!
SeinDude

 

[London Dave]

england played a crap 1st dig in this test, and payed the penalty.

overall, they are looking up

they have found a player in freddy, and i think Ramprakash will finally get pensioned off....not there mentally.

bowling wise...hoggard could be ok
Giles is a dud, but will still get a game...need a decent tweaker.

foster is worth sticking with

 

[Slax]

Giles is a dud, but will still get a game...need a decent tweaker.

Bit though on the guy. You could judge him by the last test as Vettori only bozled 2 overs and he is the third best spinner in the world be Murri & Warne. Wait until the ashes series and you could get a surprise.

Kiwi wickets don't spin much.

 

[NYPomme]

Umm... Player,

This may be going over old ground - but England's record over the last few series has been at the very least, creditable.

I draw your attention, in particular, to a series win in Pakistan. The only blip seems to be an emphatic home series loss vs. Australia. Not sure if any team in recent years would come close to beating the touring Aussies last Summer.

This winter's the focus has been centred around who hasn't been playing for NZ. I think an England 1st Team might include Darren Gough - whatdayoureckon?

 

[BT]

And NZ aren't the worst in the world at the moment either.

With Bond,Cairns,Vettori & to a lesser extent Andre Adams they're quite a good team in the field.

 

[The invisible mullet]

yes but neither Bond or Cairns was available (and Nash and O'Connor were out as well). NZ had a very ordinary attack that would have struggled at shield level and yet played creditably in the final 2 tests (aided by the pitch in the 1st innings).

 

[Bloodstained Angel]

In days gone by a 2nd English XI would have brushed NZ aside.

Its a sad indictment of the state of English cricket when guys like NYPomme contend that England is been 'creditable'

wake up to yourself mate - youse are a rabble.

Fancy just scraping a draw out of this NZ series - and you call that 'creditable' ?????

Like I said - back in the days when England really did have a cricket team to talk about, 2nd division opponents like NZ were brushed aside.

Now you call a dead average performance in scarping a draw against NZ 'creditable'

get real - England are rubbish, a rabble, a pack of timeservers and hacks who don't know what they are doing.

cheers

 

[Booze Hound]

When did Australia last win a series in Sri Lanka?

 

[Player]

Originally posted by NYPomme
Umm... Player,

This may be going over old ground - but England's record over the last few series has been at the very least, creditable.


Honestly I couldn't say with confidence if England really have made any real progess over the last decade. I know you have had a run of comparatively successful results, especially on tour, but surely the side is still characterised more by inconsistency than success.

New Zealand should be an excellent barometer, moderately successful also, understrength, and the game played in conditions that your bowlers should have experienced at home, likewise mild almost ideal conditions to bat in.

The difficulty is that English batsmen are always so damn old, that it is impossible to see how you can hope to build with confidence a team for the future, while English 'depth' seems to equate to hacks.

And as for your bowlers, well how many ten year old pommie kids have ever turned to their dad and said "When I grow up I want to be just like Andrew Caddick". Hoggard prolly did get a decent pass mark from this series. O.K., Darren Gough is more fizz than fizzle but he is just one player.

And you still don't have a pale imitation of a spin bowler.

I assume the selection of Foster as wicket keeper, a player with obvious technical deficiencies, was an intention strategy to skip an older generation of established first class players with an eye on the long term future?

I really do think you mother your players in County cricket, letting them pointlessly rust in their armour for years when they should be in the national team.

I would have written the same thing ten years ago about the touring English team 'A useful top order, nothing new there, a fragile middle order, ditto, and an average-to-fair bowling attack, again ditto'
.

I draw your attention, in particular, to a series win in Pakistan. The only blip seems to be an emphatic home series loss vs. Australia. Not sure if any team in recent years would come close to beating the touring Aussies last Summer.

New Zealand got within one umpire of beating that same Australia team in a test series.

This winter's the focus has been centred around who hasn't been playing for NZ. I think an England 1st Team might include Darren Gough - whatdayoureckon?

Lou Vincent had heart surgery three days before the first test to cure an irregular heart beat.

After being struck in the chest in the last test, he was coughing up blood but played on, very poorly admittedly.

He has publicly volunteered to keep wicket for New Zealand if that is what it will take to keep him in the side.

The only reason he isn't going on the immediate tour to Pakistan is that in his present condition there is genuine concern of the impact of long distance travel could have on his permanent health.

Darren Gough was made unavailable by the English selectors because he wants to pick and choose his own tours.

I don't even rate Vincent as a player but I know which cricketer I want in my team.

 

[Dipper]

Player,

Well mate firstly I'm pretty disappointed to lose the series after playing pretty well for most of it but I weigh up the fact that we probably deserved to win against the fact that you had your whole front line pace attack incapacitated.

It must be said that before the series you came on here & predicted a NZ victory very strongly (I can't be bothered to find the post) so I don't see how you can be quite so bullish now


Let's get things in perspective, before this series NZ came off a strong performance against Australia away where they held them to a drawn series & most neutrals had NZ as favourites to win this series.

I don't think there's much between NZ & England as sides & I don't think that is a disgrace I don't have the arrogance to think that we have a divine right to be better than most of the other Test playing nations.England, NZ & on a lower level Zimbabwe are all trying to do the same thing-we are all countries where cricket is a minority sport & where the main passion is for other sports & we're cutting our cloth accordingly & trying to stick with a nucleus of players build up team spirit & improve them as players & basically make the sum of the team greater than the individual parts.


As for county cricket-it is a sh*t structure for producing Test cricketers.It's a case of the tail wagging the dog & we must be the only country where traditionally the production of a strong Test side is not the main priority of those runing the game.

Things are changing now, the international players play sod all cc & whereas before anyone who filled their boots with runs or wickets was given a go, now we are trying to spot potential & nurture it both Vauhgn & Trescothick both had crap first class averages but the coach thought they had talent & we brought them into the fold where they have done better than some of the guys who averaged 50 in CC like Crawley etc but who were mentally ill suited(Rampraksh-he msut go) to the rigours of Test cricket.

I have a degree of optimism-I doubt we;ll ever be the best cricket side in the world ever again but we can improve.Rod Marsh is in charge of the academy now & he's pretty pleased/surprised with the quality & quantity of young(ish) fast bowlers we've got.There's a few who look pretty good, but unfortunately the spinning cupboard is bare & the batsmen are nearly all idiots & that includes the Test players the academy players & the cc players.There isn't one of them who really knows how to build an innings & doesn't possess glaring technical deficiencies.

Having said that we went to India before Xmas & we're hammered in the 1st Test, we're in a good position in the 2nd & in the 3rd we probably would have won but for the weather.As everyone knows India is perhaps the toughest place to go to win a series so we're probably not as bad as some people think especially when you consider we've got no decent spinners.


So in answer to the heading what went wrong?Well the same old sh*t an inability to punish the opposition when they're on the ropes,a collpase & failure to grasp the nettle when glory beckons.


BSA,

What gives mate?

You're a good guy & enjoy a lot of what you post but you have some deep rooted hatred of England/the English.

Any excuse for it to come out & the bile just flows-there have been so many examples of it I just don't understand why.Maybe you should preface any of your comments regarding England with a statement of your prejudice.

I'm no blind patriot I can see many of the 'sins' of our colonial past & the obnoxious yob culture that pervades large sections of this country but most of us are alright & you should just maybe open your eyes to that.For f*ck's sake you might even like me if you met me.

I reckon this series was creditable from an England perspective-we won solidly in the 1st Test, were looking at a win in the 2nd but for the weather & we were deservedly beaten in the last Test but it has to be said in a rain interupted match on a pitch that gave much help to the pace men which amkes the game more of a lottery.

This was achieved whilst the 'rabble' had to contend with losing one of their mates & colleagues at an obscenely premature age.

Oh & the Queen mum died-gawd bless er cotton socks & if you knew how she was loved over here you'd be pinning Victoria crosses on all the England boys chests just for finishing the game.

 

[NYPomme]

BSA,

Scraping out a drawn series?

Um - won first match, heavily up in Match 2, and brave run-chase in game 3.

Does 'scraping' have the same meaning in Sydney - as in the rest of the ENGLISH speaking world?

 

[Booze Hound]

Ah

I think I know who NYPomme is

How's the wife?

 

[NYPomme]

Very well thanks. Looking forward to Saturday afternoon - Paris time. Still think we have a good chance of finishing top of the pile.

Btw - since you mention it BH, remind me the last time Australia won in Sri Lanka?

Another one for you, BH - for those who are keen to rubbish claims that England's recent series results have been 'creditable' (a comment a still stand by) - could let me know how many tests in Pakistan, Australia won prior to their - dare I say it - 'creditable' 1-0 series win 1999 - let's say in the last 40 years!

 

[NYPomme]

For those still having trouble with my last question - may this excerpt from CricInfo. Australia might jog the memory
(summary of 1999 series in Pakistan):

'Coming into this series Australia had not won a Test in Pakistan for thirty-nine years, let alone a Test series. The Test series then was an unqualified success for the Australians'

Wonder why my description of recent England successes in Pakistan should stimulate such exception. Does 'creditable' have the same meaning in Sydney as it does in other parts of the ESW.

 

[CarterS]

Originally posted by DIPPER
What gives mate?

You're a good guy & enjoy a lot of what you post but you have some deep rooted hatred of England/the English.

Mate he's an Aussie!

 

[Dipper]

Originally posted by CarterS


Mate he's an Aussie!

But he's not!


Anyway Aussies don't hate us they've just got no respect for us

 

[CarterS]

Originally posted by DIPPER



But he's not!


Anyway Aussies don't hate us they've just got no respect for us

Ok, I didn't know.

New Zealand are my 2nd side though (I really like Stephen Fleming and his style of captaincy).

 

[NYPomme]

Re: Carter: (I really like Stephen Fleming and his style of captaincy).


CarterS - obviously not a cricket fan then?